Dream Weaver

Like what Pete? We can do sod all in the UK. A democracy is supposed to be where the normal people can say what they want, and the leaders listen. Yet the only forum we get is a poxy vote at a local primary school in the middle of the day, for people we have never heard of.

Our MP looks like Hank Marvin, and MP's in general dont listen anyway.

So what do you suggest?

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

PSLewis: As chairman of the governors of a large secondary school, what would be your response to a TEACHER on your staff, who:
Told lies,
Threatened to resign if things didn't go her way,
then denied having said it,
Interfered with how others less senior to her did
their jobs, then denied having done so,
Was not very good at her job,
Openly rubbished the people she was supposed to be looking
after, ie: her pupils,
Should she still be in a job, just because she's willing to do it for "not much money"?
Alcazar

pslewis

Dream Weaver - stand for MP - its SIMPLE get in, mix it and change things or stop bl00dy moaning FFS!!!

I became a governor to try and influence the school for my daughter - simple - its easy to slag people off, it takes REAL guts to get in and change things!!! Tonight I presented over 100 kids with certificates for 'Trying'!!! I spoke to a hall full of 350 people .................. I could have sat at home on my fat 4rse and moaned, just like you - that takes very little effort! Some of those kids have issues and could have given up, but NO, they tried and saw the little things through - they have more guts in their little fingers than you appear to have in your whole body!

Pete

[Edited by pslewis - 10/25/2002 12:42:47 AM]

marty_t3

pslewis,

A friend of mine once looked into standing for a place in his local gov.

To qualify to run for a local gov. position you don't actually need that much. I'm not sure of exact figures as it was a good few years ago we looked into it. I remember it being easily affordable (under £2000) and the 'backer' votes (about 200 i think) would have been easy enough to come by just through friends, workmates and neighbours.

Regardless of the exact figures, it would have been very likely that he would have been able to meet the criteria to run for a place. (he didn't bother cuz he's to lazy to even get a job never mind run for government, hardly an ideal candidate anyway)

NotoriousREV

Pete,

Just to let you know what I'm doing:

I'm trying to crystallise the ideas I've had over the last few years. I've become seriously disillusioned with the current situation and feel entirely unrepresented by any current political party. As a result, I've been trying to fathom out exactly what my political ideals are, not as easy as it sounds, as you need to be well informed before you can have a valid opinion on a subject, healthy debate with others often needed to really thrash out all aspects.

So, once I've done this, what next? Well, I plan to write a manifesto. It may not appeal to anyone other than me, but I'm going to write it and publish it and promote it. I'd like to use it to meet other people of a similar political belief and maybe, just maybe, we'll see the birth of a new political party.

Sounds daft when you write it down like that on a BBS, but I genuinely beleive in it. If nothing becomes of it, then so be it, but at least I will have tried.

Oh and for those of you who took part in the push-bike thread, no, taxation of pedal cycle's will not be in the manifesto

marty_t3

Notorious

Doesn't really sound that daft to me. Cut fuel duty and you've got my vote already

cwal1

Pete,

Having the biggest ***** is not in itself a qualification for the job, you also need the required skills to get the job done. She didn't have the skills and admitted as much. She laid her stall out by saying that she would resign if she did not meet her targets, and to her great credit she had the courage to resign when she failed to meet them.

Chris.

merkin

It's not about having the ***** to do something yourself, Ministers are members of Government elected BY THE PEOPLE, therefore if they do a shambolic job, they can expect criticism BY THE PEOPLE.
If I so desired, I would do it myself, I don't. But that doesnt mean i'm not allowed to have an opinion. If Estelle Morris worked for me in my business I would have sacked her for incompetence.

I do agree that it is hugeley to her credit she resigned without squirming a la Byers about it.

Saying that we shouldnt moan unless we are prepared to do the job ourselves is ridiculous. If there is someone in the government of my country who cannot do their job properly, thus affecting the running of the country, i am perfectly entitled to 'moan' about it.
The solution is simple - if someone competent does the job, no moaning!.

Saying 'would you do Blairs job for 120k a year' is pointless, do you really think 120k is the value of his job? how about the fact his house is paid for, his car is paid for, his expenses are paid for, his holidays are paid for. 120k a year is effectively his savings plan, and add to that the fact that when he eventually leaves office he will clean up on the after dinner circuit / memoirs etc, I'm not exactly crying into my cornflakes for him.

He also gets to play with nuclear weapons which is a huuuge perk

Merkin

NotoriousREV

Actually, I beleive Mr Blair earns £163,000 per year.

Marty, one of my core beliefs is "honest taxation". This means money taken from a source is to be used for issues relevant to that source, i.e. fuel duty will only pay for transportation and environmental issues. OK, a little simplistic in this format, but hopefully you get the idea. Of course, the money lost from reducing fuel duty will have to be made up elsewhere, potentially direct taxation (that'll be popular, then )

I'm working on it...

[Edited by NotoriousREV - 10/25/2002 9:52:22 AM]

marty_t3

Notorious,

I quite agree with you. I'd be happy to pay more tax on my income and less on fuel if it was being spent in the right places. I don't see why drivers should prop up the economy. We don't benefit any more than non-drivers yet we are taxed thousands of pounds a year more than anyone else.

One issue that sticks in my mind is the tax on smokers. As a smoker myself i'd be more than happy for them to be banned outright. Anything else as dangerous is banned on health grounds, why not smoking? Admittedly the benefits of this would not be immediately apparent as the government would lose a fortune on the lost tax. The benefits being the nations health would improve, less bills for hospital care, and people would be more productive at work (speaking for myself i spend about 30 minutes a day smoking when i should be at my desk working).

I'd be very interested to hear your other views on various matters. My own ideas may not be based on getting the numbers to add up but on common sense (i reckon thats the best place to start).

ChrisB

Easy to type, hard to do in practice. Half the people round here would vote for a brush if you stuck a Labour sticker on it.

Take the turn-out in the elections for a Mayor last week, was something like 26%. Nearly 3/4 of the population weren't interested in having a say in the direction of the city.

dsmith

To be fair a brush would do less damage so its not a bad plan.

Deano

marty_t3

Chris,

I think it would be fair to say that a good portion of the 74% of ppl who didn't vote, didn't think there was anyone worth voting for. I feel the same way at the moment... i don't see the point in voting these days... there isn't anyone worth voting for right now.

ChrisB

There was a good 'range' of candidates. Our local MP who thought he could be our Mayor as well (hmm, maybe not hey?) and a good few independants, some from a none political background.

Off topic a little, but I don't believe party politics should have anything to do with local government.

NotoriousREV

Marty,

Yes, common sense _should_ prevail and hopefully one day will.

It's good that people are willing to listen to new ideas. I have no desire to have power or be in control, I'll never personally stand for public office, but I want people who feel as I do to come together and shape the political future, even if only in a small way.

I'm a fair-minded, genuine person and I like to think the vast majority of people are, yet we seem to be vastly under-represented. I want to make it easier for decent people to prosper and harder for scum. I want to see a move away from namby-pamby liberal policies and see some real, effective actions. If some snot-nosed kid is keeping a housing estate terrified and thinks he/she an escape the law (or be "named and shamed" ) then let's do something about it, make him/her accountable for his actions, let's make their parents accountable for theirs.

I read a quote from Clarkson that I liked (no, I'm not basing my entire political agenda on JC, but it fitted nicely with my thoughts). Paraphrased it was: The Government is there to unveil park benches and change the light bulbs in street lamps.

Obviously, there is more to it than that, but the general idea is less intervention in people's everday lives, more working behind the scenes getting the basics right.

The basics being:

Excellent education
Excellent health care
Low crime
Excellent transportation system (including a realistic public transport system based on need not profit)
Excellent local public services

and so on. The way to acheive this is to let people who know what they are doing get on with their jobs, don't put red tape in their way, don't create false targets that are meaningless.

I could ramble on for hours, but it's too unstructured at the moment

marty_t3

I reckon the government should be far more accountable for it's actions than it is now. The amount of tax payers money that is blatantly wasted is incredible (i.e. millenium dome, wembley).

Using the millenium dome as an example, if that was run by a business then that business would have either gone bust or pulled the plug before the losses got too high. The people responsible would be accountable for their actions. Heads would roll and peaple would be sacked. As far as i know, only one person 'stood down' from their position over the dome caper.

If i screwed up that much in my job i would have been sacked and i doubt i'd ever be employed again unless i undertook a serious career change. Why should the government be any different?

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

PSLewis: didn't my question, (post 31) merit a reply? It WAS a genuine question, not an attempt to make your argument any less valued.
Alcazar

super_si

I want to know which school it is.

Because Middlesbrough has many nice area's

ROFL...........



[Edited by super_si - 10/25/2002 5:20:24 PM]

pslewis

alcazar - a teacher is completely different to a politician who is in charge of a department the size of a large town, with a budget of £45BILLION!!! - is the head of that department REALLY responsible for someone in that large town slipping up/lying/cheating WHATEVER??? thats why I didnt answer, because it meant nothing!!

Super_Si - just because I support MIDDLESBROUGH doesnt mean I still live there!!

Pete

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

No, Pete, I'm afraid you missed my point: what if it WAS the head of department doing all those things? Does she STILL have a job?
Alcazar

dsmith

I'm confused.

Pete - are you saying that to express an opinion about politics we must first do something - e.g. become a school governor ?

Does that mean you see your work on a school governing board as a political role ??

Surely it must be in the Schools,parents,childrens,teachers best interests for a position such as School Governor to be apolitical ?

Deano

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

LOL at Deano.
That's why at least a third of all governors are political appointees.
Alcazar
Edited to say: BTW, some teachers I know call their governors "The Trippers", short for "Ego Trippers", 'cos that's why they think they do it!!:
Alcazar

[Edited by alcazar - 10/25/2002 10:36:34 PM]

pslewis

Deano - what I am saying is that people moan and moan and then do NOTHING about it .. they may even NOT vote Can you imagine it? Tell that to the people who died to keep the country free and to give people, yes even the complete 4rseholes we see here, the right to complain about what someone is trying to do for the best!

As for being an ego-tripper, just goes to show the limit of intelligence of some I would agree that SOME governors are in it to feel good in the community - and if they work their nuts off on behalf of the children (UNPAID!) then I am not about to stop them! HOWEVER, I would say that 95% are in it for totally unselfish reasons. I am in it to improve the school for my daughter - simple.

I thought I could contribute something to improve the school and I hope I have - sitting on my 4rse and complaining was NEVER an option with me, get in there and change things or die knowing you spent your life complaining and doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!

Pete

NotoriousREV

Pete,

It's hardly surprising, people beleive they have no responsibilities anymore, everything is always someone else's fault.They should put things right, they should make things better.

Who are they? You and me.

Chip

So PSLEWIS tell us what it was like under Clement Attlee then.

Chip.

pslewis

Good, Very Good - no Gold Wheels, no men? with earings! no women? with tattoos - wonderful, men were men!!

Pete

Chip

But there were GOLD wheels in those days Pete. Take a look at the Queens carriage. its got those loverly GOLD wheels on it.

SEE it was even before you were around that these wonderful wheels were about.

Chip.

Rusty Festa

not voting is not the same as voting for no-one.

To all those who did not go and vote and still say the will not go and vote then you are plain and simpley lazy.

If you don't want to vote for anyone then go and spoil your ballot paper. you still are using your right to vote. I think if everyone turned out and spoiled their papers this would put across a much stronger message.

For the record, I voted tactically at the last election - Labour as I did not want the Conservatives to get in if I voted otherwise