mark.coleman

I only believe in something I can touch or actually see for my own eyes, I cannot touch religion, I cannot say I'm popping round to see god, only an interpretation of him through history of views.



[This message has been edited by mark.coleman (edited 13 September 2001).]

fast bloke

All hail the great god Bellybuttonfluff, and the demigods wirecoathangertangle and shoppingtrolleyupsidedowninadesertedriver.

Sadman

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by davyboy:
<B>The word blind faith come to mind.

Would you really belive something you could not see or could not have proved to you.

Religion is a way of controlling people.

I have many veiws on this, but none good. I agree it has no place in our society.

BTW those that think it is a bunch of ****, where did you get married?? Church ?? why?? make the photos look good did it??

Dave the Agnostic

[/quote]

Sorry Dave but if you're an agnostic you do believe in something you can not see or have proved to you, you just don't know what it is.

If you truly believe in nothing at all then you are an atheist or a nihilist but not an agnostic.

Don't you just hate people like me!

Kippax

Religion aint the root. Some people are just ****. Ian Brady is ****, the geezer who leaves the security gate to my Scoob open at night is ****, that fat palastinian bird with the glasses on celebrating the death of those people in NYC is **** and I want to smash there faces in. BUT, I wont 'cos I aint **** like them.

Josh L

Dr Evil,

I'm afraid that I couldn't agree more. That has been my argument for years, and is in fact how I explain this lunacy to my children.

Without exception, all religions, in essence preach love, peace and understanding. They all worship one God in pretty much the same way.

In practice, however, they are prepared to kill each other over who has the correct way to praise God. Or worse they simply use religion as any excuse for selfish acts of pure evil.

Unfortunately, until they realise that they are in fact all in the wrong nothing will change.

The old phrase 'Thank God I'm an atheist' is becoming more appealing.

Josh

EvilBevel

&gt;&gt;Anyone care to tell me where the stuff came from to blow up in the first place, always wondered. I thought it came from IKEA?

It does. It was the now discontinued "Gaja" line.

The "big bang" was just The Creator getting a bit fed up with the pretty bad plan & the bits and bobs missing.

RonaldoH

I am with Josh.

One things for sure, Alex meant no malice in this. Hes one of the very few kind hearted people I know of in this world-and also someone who listens to everyones sides of the story-and never passes judgement. Thats why I love asking him for advice on stuff

Whatever religion, creed, race,colour and what ever god people worship-(God, Ala, TV, Cream Cakes) one thing is for sure, we all hope that all of the Gods that we all pray to can stop the murdering of innocent peoples lives. This is not a world I want to raise kids in

Ron

EvilBevel

For a more serious answer: shouldn't we make a distinction between religious beliefs and organized religion ?

Atheism in itself is also a deep personal belief system.

I'm more in the atheist "camp" myself, but don't ask me to think it through. I get stuck.

Sadman

Neil & Fast Bloke

The Big Bang has nothing to do with belly button fluff or coathangers from Ikea...

The theory goes like this....

It is a well known fact that biros and odd socks blink out of existence when no one is looking but that as the universe has to be in balance, at that exact moment they are immediately replaced by diced carrot, hence the presence of diced carrot in vomit whether you've eaten any recently or not.

Pre-universe these were not in balance and the universe came into existence with the big bang when a piece of diced carrot collided with an anti-biro.

We can now divide ourselves between the followers of the belly button fluff and the followers of the anti-biro and wage holy (or holey if you are an odd-sockist) war against each other.

P.S. That Absinthe stuff recommended in the Nostradamus thread is really greattt.....

DavidLewis

KF: Yep, point taken, but there are centuries of 'history' between the Jews and the Arabs, too much too write everything here

GaryC:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR><B>Religion is the root of the histroic disharmony, but Tuesday's acts were nothing to do with religion. Merely terrorists justifying their actions through religion (ie blaming).

No religion/god would sanction that horror<HR></BLOCKQUOTE></B>
I agree with your last line, can't ever imagine the Pope sanctioning such actions.
But these actions (and others like them) are fuelled by reglious hatred and caried out by people who believe that the gates of heaven will be always open for them after performing such acts and are prepared to die for their religious beliefs.

EvilBevel

&gt;&gt;hence the presence of diced carrot in vomit whether you've eaten any recently or not.

I always wondered about that ... you just destroyed my whole believe system. Thanks pal

fast bloke

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Sadman:
<B>...hence the presence of diced carrot in vomit whether you've eaten any recently or not.....[/quote]

Sorry Sadman - It is a well known fact that there is a supernatural being akin to The Tooth Fairy, The Sandman and Jack Frost. He is called Diced Carrot Man. When you vomit you have your eyes closed. As it hits the ground he steps out from behind the nearest tree/lamppost/door and throws a handful of diced carrots from his bag into the pavement pizza. To prove this theory, go home tonight, drink 20 pints of beer as an emetic and vomit with your eyes open. If you manage to keep your eyes open there will be no carrots.

fast bloke

p.s. I've got all the biro's and washing machines are really powered by socks

Sadman

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by fast bloke:
<B>p.s. I've got all the biro's and washing machines are really powered by socks[/quote]

So is that why washing machines need an electrical sock-et?

RussP

"I refuse to prove i exist" says God "For proof denies faith and without faith i am nothing"

"Ahh" says man, "but the Bable Fish PROVES you exist, and therefore you DON'T"

"Oh Dear" Says god "I hadn't thought of that"

And promptly vanishes in a puff of Logic.

"that was easy" says man, goes on to prove BLACK=WHITE and gets killed on the next Zebra crossing.

I miss Douglas Adams!

astraboy

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by RussP:
<B>


I miss Douglas Adams!
[/quote]

So do I mate. He could have settled this by the second reply in his own inimitable style.
astraboy
P.S. especially the carrot thing.

scoobysnacks

I can see why some people say these attacks had little to do with religion... I disagree however.
The only reason these hijackers were prepared to kill themselves for their cause was because they were religious nuts who believed they were doing good in the eyes of their God. This made them believe they would go on to better things in some sort of wonderful after life. Religion had everything to do with it and this is a good example of how it can really screw people up.

CharlieWhiskey

see below, double post DOH!

[This message has been edited by CharlieWhiskey (edited 13 September 2001).]

Stef

When will everyone realise that there is no God?
I don't recall any of the bible's mentioning dinosaurs.

Stef.

CharlieWhiskey

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by RussP:
<B>
I miss Douglas Adams!

[/quote]
Me too, I was waiting for his next book

'The teachings of Douglas Adams' Sounds like an excellent basis for a new religion

<I>evertime I go through St Pancras I do a little twist to try to get into Valhalla, but it hasn't worked - yet... </I>

LanCat

God is that thing inside you that tells you what is right or wrong. Mine is different to yours and yours is different to the next man.

Chances are they're not that different whatever "label" you stick on your beliefs.
But what you believe comes from your teachers, your parents, your friends, from those you idolize and those you hate. They all have an impact on you at some time or other, just some more than others.
If you are a terrorist then you've got your beliefs in a different way to 99.99999% of the world and you are out of step. Don't say you are that because of religion call it a corrupt belief system. If you kill then you don't have the same belief system I do. If you steal and lie then you don't live the way I do. Don't blame it on a label called religion. It doesn't matter if you run an aeroplane into a tower block or throw pipe bombs at kids going to school you don't belong in my civilised society.

Whatever kind of belly-fluff you have it don't look like mine.

Sam Elassar

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DavidLewis:
[B]KF: Yep, point taken, but there are centuries of 'history' between the Jews and the Arabs, too much too write everything here

Not true
there is also centuries of history between europe and jews. so ?

20% of palestinains are actually Christian as well but you seem to forget that. it is never about religion it is about land. do mix things up.

Balfour treaty gave jews palestine as their own. so what do you expect the land owners to do ?

before that in Jerusalem their was almost 50% jews 10% Christians and rest Muslims they lived like that for years.

big difference between jews and isrealis

[This message has been edited by Sam Elassar (edited 13 September 2001).]

Pete Croney

Religon is something that actually interests me greatly. I am not religous, but I am intrigued by people who are and will normally want to know why they are.

I am not religous because I have had no need to believe in any omnipotent, all controlling (sic) being and I cannot believe that any such being would allow such suffering as to cause people to leap from a 110 storey building.

One thing that always comes across is that you cannot talk someone out of their faith, because every religon has built into its doctrines answers for every eventuality.

The other thing that is clear, is that every religon is an adaptation of another. All religons have a flood story and most have some sort of first couple story.

Christianity has its roots in ancient Egypt. The three kings (or wise men) can be associated with the three stars of Orien's belt, the most revered and worship objects in Egyptian culture. It's argued that the Great pyramids are laid out to represent the positioning of these 3 stars ("on earth, as it is in heaven"?). The Egyptians believed that if they were accepted into heaven, they became a star and the three stars of the belt were the first 3 gods who lived on earth. All religons evolve, to preserve their existance.

What has happened over the years, is that all religons have been tailored to what suits the people in control of them. And that isn't by any god.

Christianity became more popular as it spread through the Roman empire. The problem was, as it spread in different directions, so the final story was different. Hence the bible. The bible was written approx 300 years after Jesus died and was written by an appointed committee, so that everyone was "singing off the same song sheet".

What's happened since then, is that Christianity has evolved into the Catholic, Prodestant, Anglican, Prestbyterian, Johovah Witness and Baptist strains to name the main ones.

What goes wrong is this lot all support exactly the same god and even they can't get on.

When you have another religon that supports a completely different god, is more "involving" for its followers and is, like all religons, in competition for followers (to ensure its future survival), when someone one day says its alright or even good to kill enemies of your faith (and he is revered enough), you suddenly have people flying planes into buildings and doing other things that beggar belief from the rational.

Because these people are being told that doing this will please their god, there is no amount of talking them out of it.

A tragedy of far greater, though less sudden impact, is the spread of AIDS through the third world, which is predominately Catholic. Between Africa and South America, over 10 million peple have AIDS.

If the Pope said it was OK to use condoms, not only would the spread slow (or even stop?) but they would better control their population and hence their ability to feed themselves.

In the furtherment of Christianity, almost the entire civilisation of South America was wiped out by the Spanish. They did it so easily because the god the Mayan's worshiped looked just like a Spaniard. They welcomed them with open arms and were then slaughtered. Either by the sword, or by diseases that they had no immunity to.

Is religon the root of all evil? I think so, but its been going on for 3000 years.

StanS

iTrader: (3)

Just to add my 2p worth.

You have to have work to appreciate holidays.
You have to have sickness to appreciate health. Same with good/evil.

I don't think religion is the root, but any extreme belief in anything. Most troubles seem to be caused by extreme religious beliefs. Most "normal" religious beliefs seem to encourage getting on with people and accepting different customs (at least on the surface).

This is only my way of seeing things and I appologise if it offends any with other beliefs.

Stan

[This message has been edited by StanS (edited 13 September 2001).]

Chins

For those that dont know, I'm a born again happy clappy.

Some of the things in this thread sadden me, but dont suprise me.

Evil is out there and can cloak itself under the name of Religion. Without getting heavy, God does not prommise a world without these type of disasters. Many people that will of been killed will of been Christians or Muslims. The Churches are been turned to in America to give support. We are having a prayer meeting in our house tonight to pray for those affected.

People that really worship God do not undertake such acts.

Jonathan

EvilBevel

&gt;&gt;People that really worship God do not undertake such acts.

Some people that do not worship God at all would also never undertake such acts...

Theo

Chins

There are also people out there that are not Christians that show more compasion to other people, do lots of charity work etc than me.

There are lots of people I wish I had as kind a heart as them that are not Christians.

Jonathan

KF

The primary teaching of religion is faith. As soon as you internalise this, one will realise that there is no point arguing with others over the existence of a God. Faith precludes questioning by definition. No Christian will analyse the foundations of their belief without already having begun down the path to athiesm or eternal damnation.

I can't rationalise the actions of some individuals who profess to be religious with their actions. On one extreme we have the fundamentalists, but we also have a God fearing president sitting in judgement over others, and planning to kill. It seems ironic to me.

Don't read that last comment as being flippant, I share the deep sense of shock and sadness that is the overriding emotion felt by rational individuals of all nationalities and religions. I would support retaliation, but this is a luxury afforded to me by my lack of faith in God.

KF.

EDIT:
Sam, I read David's response as an indication that he had been over-simplifying for the sake of brevity.

[This message has been edited by KF (edited 14 September 2001).]

Diesel

There are no violent truly religious people, and those who attach a religious affiliation to their violent actions in the name of a higher power do so shamefully and hypocritically.

These people shame their religion. The Qu'ran condones violence only after all avenues have been explored, and only when 'the freedom to practice your religion' has been threatened. This threat has not happened - we have Mosques in UK and I'm sure USA... Live and let live is how us free democratic people think...

Being a moslem implies even stricter moral codes than the 10 Commandments of the bible -it has hundreds more 'common sense' rules to be adhered to, day to day. It is essentially a more peacful ethos too - no 'eye for an eye' in the Qu'ran...

The events so sadden me so, and with this total total hypocrisy. If they STUCK to their religion and the wise, diplomatic and peacful word of Muhammed, this would never have happened.

(I am personally not religious at all)

Diesel

PS They also 'support' the same God as us Westerners (that do)...

sasman

Not in the same historical depth as Mr Croney, I take time to listen to people who have a faith, to try and see what leads them. This may be controversial in a thread full of controversy but a large number of them seem to be recovering from some major crises, drugs, alcohol, crime, bereavement. You may say this is an over simplification but it seems like an escape route for "dare I say it" weak people. They need someone to answer too so they can find the strength to stop doing what they have come to hate. Religion has faded in this country as the standard of living has risen, we don't need something to look forward to because life is quite bearable. Poor middle eastern people don't have to much, and I know that doesn't explain what Bin Laden's problem is. You can blame religion for these killings but jealousy, human greed seems more likely. PS not very eloquently put but spot on KIPPAX some people are just sh/t perhaps we can find the DNA to eradicate them. Perhaps we're all capable deep down.