Adam M

Diesel, I understand what you are saying, but in listening to them then you have just proven that terrorism has worked.

If everyone previously un listened to took action like this, there would be no world living in fear to try to avoid.

You simply cannot give in to terrorism.

You make the point that it is terrible to distinguish people on the basis of colour, yet their fight is based on egregating people. How can you condemn in one hand and accept in another?

The answer is you cannot. Only thing to do here is stand up to it. I am sad to say more lives will be lost, but if a hardline isnt taken then we will be at the mercy of anyone who decides to make their point.

Diesel

Adam

I totally understand you, but...

These guys will keep getting stronger; they will bounce back more fervently and more passionately – this will be regardless of any sanctions and bombings or isolation. The problem will remain, but it will be magnified and will keep magnifying with every other perceived injustice and wrong done to the Islamic gang (and it is a big one) by the West. I dread to think what may eventually happen, and all that based on the very fact that I do not think they are wronged to such an extent...

Mr Leigh

The anguish this abominable act has caused can been seen on the face of every decent member of humanity. My heart is with the victims. I hope the world will put aside there differences to ensure this malignant cowardice is wiped from the face of this earth for all time, no matter from which rock it crawls under. How anyone can say "We need to understand these people is beyond me" An act such as this can surely have no logic or reasoning behind it, its just madness. These people are lunatics pure and simple. Anyone who gives these pitiful people understanded is wrong. I hope they will all be going to the place they seem so keen on reaching very shortly.

Nimbus

Bush declares the attack an "act of war". Make of that what you will...

Pete Croney

Just listening to Sky News.

Bin Laden has just been made head of the Talaban Militia in Afganistan. He said "it is our duty to send our children into the battlefield and engage the enemy in this holy war, in the name of Mohamed".

The enemy is everyone who is not Muslem.

There is no listening to these people. They will see no reason.

In Afganistan, it is illegal to watch television, to access the internet, for a woman's skin to be visible in public and for a woman to be educated. These are just some of their offences that are punishable by death.

These are not rational people that we will sit around a negotiation table and we (the free western world) are their sworn enemy.

This isn't like Northern Ireland, or even Palestine (both of which are political/land disputes), this is pure religous hatred. Hatred of the west, because we do not share their beliefs.

Retaliation? Bin Laden says it isn't over, should the west try and be nice to him?

Mr Leigh is spot on.

john&nicci

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Pete Croney:
<B>Just listening to Sky News.

Bin Laden has just been made head of the Talaban Militia in Afganistan. He said "it is our duty to send our children into the battlefield and engage the enemy in this holy war, in the name of Mohamed".

The enemy is everyone who is not Muslem.

There is no listening to these people. They will see no reason.

In Afganistan, it is illegal to watch television, to access the internet, for a woman's skin to be visible in public and for a woman to be educated. These are just some of their offences that are punishable by death.

These are not rational people that we will sit around a negotiation table and we (the free western world) are their sworn enemy.

This isn't like Northern Ireland, or even Palestine (both of which are political/land disputes), this is pure religous hatred. Hatred of the west, because we do not share their beliefs.

Retaliation? Bin Laden says it isn't over, should the west try and be nice to him?

Mr Leigh is spot on.[/quote]
If the afghan's have given him a "job-title" I would hazard a guess that a certain country will be wiped off our maps in the not so distant future.
This is scary!

RonaldoH

1700 Midway staff have been fired with Immediate effect in the states?

Anyone know that thats about?

Pete Croney

Its about losing a weeks revenue. Many cheap carriers make $2 a seat. To lose a weeks takings shuts them down.

cryptwalk

2 dozen Fbi officers have stormed a boston hotel, looking for teroist cells.

There are reports that one man has been arrested and one other injured.


Breaking news BBC news 24.

Neil Smalley

I find it a little odd that they have rounded people up so quickly after the event.

One would have thought it'd take a bit longer

robski

Pete C wrote : Bin Laden has just been made head of the Talaban Militia in Afganistan. He said "it is our duty to send our children into the battlefield and engage the enemy in this holy war, in the name of Mohamed".

The enemy is everyone who is not Muslem.

Well if thats his view why the bloody hell isnt it our view too. We should wipe them out before they do it too us. Im sure Im gonna get flamed for this, but if you leave these things to fester they get worse, IMHO we didnt go far enough in the Gulf war. The governments thought the Iraqi people would put an end to Saddam but hes still there and just as in control as ever. He routinely makes trouble, and the allies have never been able to fully withdraw.

Sad, but I hope that the US response is sooo significant when they do that it sends a very clear message to the world.

One thing I do know for fact. The air bases in East Anglia are enforcing the 3KM exclusion zones, and that a number of the large refuelling tankers have departed today. No other planes have yet been launched. They are doing something.

robski

CharlieWhiskey

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by robski:
<B>One thing I do know for fact. The air bases in East Anglia are enforcing the 3KM exclusion zones, and that a number of the large refuelling tankers have departed today. No other planes have yet been launched. They are doing something.

robski[/quote]

Watch this space!

Tonight I will mostly be watching CNN!

Chris

Diesel

On the basis that Hiroshima and Nagasaki ‘worked’ and the basis that Ho Chi Minh said "the weakness of Americans is their humanity" I’ll leave the long term fix issue alone – it’s too early.

Guess I’d have been in the Embassy, not the army.

D

Moz

Reporting military air movements on the net may well contravene part 1 of the OSA.
And thats a pretty long prison sentence

Moz

Reporting military air movements on the net may well contravene part 1 of the OSA.
And thats a pretty long prison sentence

Andy Winskill

Double for you then Moz

polarbearit

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Neil Smalley:
<B>I find it a little odd that they have rounded people up so quickly after the event.

One would have thought it'd take a bit longer [/quote]

Neil,

I agree with you 100% on this, either the security organisations are trying to frame a group so they can take quick action or equally likely the perpetrators are trying to frame someone else for the crime. I really don't think such organised terrorist would leave these clues accidentally!

Jon

johnfelstead

you sure about that pete? I havent seen anything anywhere stating that bin laden has any involvement officially with afghan government!

Carlos The Jackel

It does smell a bit like a set-up, cars left in car-parks @ airports with evedence like that. I could be Saddam setting up Ben what ever his name is! Then again hearing about the way they were hi-jacked(razor blades)etc i don't think they were as pro as made out, But they were unfortunatly effective.
I saw the second plane hit live on BBC and with CNN on all the time i still cringe when i see that plane hit - madmen

Squizz

In the end, what can we say.

It's all so sad for the state of humanity.

Pete Croney

John

Was on Sky again, last night, but slightly mis-heard by me. He is now "Chief Inspector" of the Talaban militia.

Nimbus

All sounds a little 'convenient' that an Arabic flight manual and a video were found in the back seat of a car left at Boston. I would immediately find this suspicious. It's such an obvious 'clue' that I would consider it part of a frame. But, you just don't know how these people minds work. Maybe they were not at all concerned about being found out after the event. These are not rational people after all…

Does anyone else fell like we are now living in a different world? Things will never be the same again….

Adam M

I know we often laugh at teh americans for being stupid, but I cant imagine the american intelligence hasnt thought of this themselves. We only see what teh media shows us. Theer is no way the american government only know what we are seeing. There is a mountain of info beneath this.

British intelligence knew some weeks ago that something big was going to go off, I am sure americans did too, as they do talk.

They simply wouldn't want to cause panic in the public by revealing what could happen every time.

I think, when we have all the info then we can comment.

Also bear in mind that every major intelligence agency in the world is probably on this.

American, British [plus rest of eu) Israeli.......... that is a lot of very clever people.

Amercica wont just lash out for the sake of it, I have a feeling this will go on for a long time.

Squizz

No, I don't think the world will ever be the same again...

If Afghanistan becomes a military target, in either a coalition or American intiative, then I don't believe Russia will have much of a problem with that...

...You can bet your *** China will !

...Not forgetting the consequences of questioning the religious values of certain states in the Middle-East.

Religion... But if it wasn't that, then we'd all find something else to fight about, no doubt. That's what's always annoyed me about the Northern Irish problem. They're just uneducated individuals without the maturity to see that in this day and age, what's the point in fighting over something like that??

Neil Smalley

I've been thinking of ways the use of airliners as weapons can be prevented from occuring again.

Three ideas spring to mind.
1. Have plain clothed armed special forces guys on every flight.

Expensive to do. No gurantee that a firefight won't bring down the plane.

2. Self destruct button on the plane.
An explosive device that will blow the plane to bits before it can be used.

Nasty, will still kill loads of people.

Or my favoured one.

3. Override the controls from the ground.
In the event of a hijack, the pilot presses a panic button. A special program in entered into the autopilot which will cause the plane to fly to a pre determined points and gently force land or land somewhere out of harms way(where the police will be waiting). Modern autopilots can practically land the plane themselves.

The pilot/crew will not be able to disengage the autopilot/do manual control until a coded signal, sent from the ground has been sent.

Therefore any attempt to do this again will fail, because as soon as the lockout is engaged there is nothing nobody can do on the aircraft to prevent it from making a controlled descent. Think of it as the airline equivilent of those car alarm systems which restrict the engine to 400 revs, after a certain distance.

Easy to implement, foolproof in operation and a hell of a lot cheaper than trying to put 'sky marshalls' on.

john&nicci

[QUOTE]Or my favoured one.

Modern autopilots can practically land the plane themselves.

Modern autopilots have "auto-land". They CAN land themselves! They also have "auto-braking" which has different settings. Latest toy is "auto-taxi" which requires the airport to be modded up. So your idea is perfectly plausible. john

Adam M

Neil,

El-Al (israels official airline) have had armed operatives on every flight for about 20 years. Their identities are unknown to everyone, except chief security staff.

[This message has been edited by Adam M (edited 13 September 2001).]

Nimbus

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Neil Smalley:
<B>..as soon as the lockout is engaged there is nothing nobody can do on the aircraft to prevent it from making a controlled descent..[/quote]

What would the person on the ground who has the 'lockout' code do if the terrorist say they will kill the passangers and crew one by one until the plane is relased? Can you imagine the scene as they listen to them dying over the radio? They would kill all the passengers then kill themselves and destroy the plane. You can not gaurd against someone who has absolutly no respect for human life whether it's someone elses or their own.

JayRaj

How come no one is pointing the figure at Saadam?

He has not codemned the attack and he is also America's public enemy no.1

He has power, arms, money and the manpower to mount such an operation.

Jay

Neil Smalley

A tragic scenario Nimbus, and that's not a call i'd want to make. BUT given the choice between 200 or 20,000 dead....

It seems a cold hearted and callous thing to say and think about. It seems as though the heroic passengers of the flight that crashed into the woods made that choice. By their sacrifice they saved thousands more.

There are no easy answers, no way of protecting people all of the time. A terrorist has to be lucky just once, the people stopping them have to be lucky all of the time.

Against the suicidal lone gunman, bomber or pilot there is no defense against loss of life, all that can be done is to minimise it