scooby1973

clarkson drives how many diffrent cars and slags them off, yet he's owened an **** and said the new ones ****e , and went home in style.
now thats enough said...

jjones

http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/thread.asp?ThreadID=130743&Page=1

nuff said

advevo

A standard civic type R beats a standard wrx even in wet conditions. i have read a test about it.

and i just test drove an sti and it feels no were as sporty as my civic type r the sti feels heavy when i drove it it feels like i was sitting in a boat.

i also own an evo 7RS and that car has much more involvement in driving than the wrx and sti.

GTT old model impreza was a fantastic car. A real car it gave you involvement in driving. it was a drivers car.

i am very curious about the focus RS and i don t believe reporters or magazines i just need to drive it myself.

i have owned 2 scooby s GTT but i will not buy a sti new version man o man they really did something wrong at subaru japan. They wrecked something nice.

lets all hope for a focus rs 4wd rally special i mean a real drivers car.

bazab

just face it guys 'scobbys' are pants they take there nick name from a cartoon dog --- says it all. they should've stuck to making 4 wheel drives and estates!!!! Viva the RS!!!

co55ie

Lol At scoob owners unbeatable in the twisties, on a smooth road the scoob wil get trounced by the RS on a rough road the Impreza has the edge. LOL at the unbeatable scoob getting beaten by type R too.Is it me or does that bug eyed monstrosity look even worse on telly than in real life I wouldn't have thought that was possible seems it is though. Seems the handling really isnt that good on the impreza afterall. Certainly no match for an escos anyway. Either in the handling or Power dept as proven time and time and time and time again. Even Clarkson is now aware of the scoob owners ridiculous plea LOL if it had been raining not enough or the wrong type of twisties. Face it name me one scoob or evo in the UK that can compete with either Gareth Lloyd's or the Reyland car. There isn't one.

Neil Smalley

Biggest I can find..

After every road test with any car that purports to be an Impreza rival, there is always legions of other the other cars 'supporters' that register on here for the sole purpose of trying to get people to bite and make a 'mines better than yours' childrens playground style argument out of it

Is the Focus RS a good car, Yes
Is the Impreza a good car, Yes
Are they the 'best' car in the world, no.

My personal opinion is that the Focus RS is a very good and very quick FWD car. I have no qualms about saying that it's faster than a WRX around a track. It has more Bhp, Better brakes(key factor here) and stiffer suspension. As a road car it does seem to have a fundimental problem with torque steer. The way it squirmed on the road last night, was quite frankly scary.

I've driven some torque steering cars(620ti and a rover 200 turbo(a m8's) and they were bad enough, this looked worse

So far all those people who've put their money down have'nt yet had chance to test drive the car. The fact that so many are defending it when they have'nt even driven it, points to a lot of insecurity about the wisdom of where they spend their 20 grand.

All the favorable magazine tests have so far been when the car is on track, or a very smooth road surface. Those that have had the car on normal roads have all commented the torque steer issue. All the laptimes on track have been done by a professional racing driver who knows how to drive round diffiencies in the car

The WRX has a problem too. It's now too heavy and too underpowered for what it's supposed to represent. There are a number of hot hatches that can match the WRX for straight line speed and even(in the cooper S's case) dry corning ability.

I've popped across the RSfocus, RSOC, and EVO BBS's and there are posts on there slating Clarkson and JayKay because they had the temerity to critise the car. If they had given the car a big thumbs up, then those same people who were calling the reviews unfair would be crowing about the same reviewers from the rooftops.

Before Subaru fans get self rightous and say 'we would never do that', they do. The driven test of the STI and EVO last year for example.

See what I mean, we can go on for ever and ever about this and that and it would stil not solve anything, nor prove anything what so ever.

However one thing should unite us, and that we should be thankful that we have the freedom to spend our money on cars such as the Focus RS,CTR and WRX. And that car makers still have the freedom(although for how much longer) to make cars like the FRS,CTR and WRX. Therefore it does'nt matter what we buy, as long as we enjoy it, we don't try to stir up animosity with people who don't own our marque of car and we fully appreciate the freedoms and luxury we live in.

Suresh

Was disappointed at last night's show. It was all a little too blokey without all that much content.

Back on topic; IMHO the fugly is an overweight and underpowered tub of lard that tarnishes the performance image of the 'classic'. Now we all get tarred with the same (Impreza = slow) brush.

Suresh

leesrs

Nice to see the scoobys get put in there place ---- at the back

ooooppppsss i thought i was on the rs owners site!!!!!

Spudgun VI

firstly, i think the new series of top gear is pretty good, and much more orientated to the petrol head audience, which is a good thing. does look a little haphazard and unrehearsed at times though(is it live?)

secondly.
the impreza, in its standard form, is no longer the be all and end all it once was. things have moved on, and its been caught up by all kinds of cars fwd and awd. in the past, people would put up with the crappy build quality because for the money nothing sounded better, felt as secure and went (relatively) like stink.

the impreza is now just a friendly entry model into the performance car world, and nothing more. used prices have tumbled, and more and more will be seen hanging around mcdonalds car parks

so the moral is this. if you want a car that will not be so easily surpassed, even by a focus cosworth or anything else for that matter, best get yerselves an evo

example? good condition evo6, sensible mods, from as little as 17k. add an RC stage 3 kit(around 5-6k) and bobs yer uncle, 387bhp!

come join the darkside boys

Makalu

Reasons not to get too upset about the Focus...

1. Its a Ford.
2. Cosworths have been around ages - good cars but...
3. Its a Ford.
4. Any colour you like as long as its blue and ...
5. Its a Ford.
6. Its ONLY 2WD and ...
7. Its a Ford.
8. OK so its faster... so what, does it eat corners like a Scoob? No because ...
9. Its a Ford.
And whats worse is that its not just a Ford, Its a Ford Focus. A dadsy family hack carriage usually seen outside Focus DIY for Chrissake! My granny has more taste!

Mak.

trigbert

On the subject of DH being Stig..

Did anyone see him on the BBC Motor Show preview make the cockney wide boy trader chuck his guts down the side of the Merc SL55 (think thats what it was).

"Never had anyone do that before" he says before driving off and leaving the poor sole to find his rsole.

LOL

Squizz

Trigbert - I saw that, and loved it...(Not being a fan of the baldy guy).

Damon's being taking a bit of a knock on this thread, and quite frankly I think he's a stunning driver. He certainly seemed to enjoy himself in the Mercedes Coupe' - Enough to cause the emergency roll-over protection to activate.

LG John

Until now I've bitterly resisted the 'scoobys are slow and crap' theory and defended what IMO is a very good car. But I'm not going to now, the sheer numbers of people on here slagging the impreza actually pleases me because IMO when the Impreza was at its best was when people didn't know what it could do (many years ago). If the rest of the motoring world starts to relate the words 'Impreza' and 'slow' it'll be all the more fun when they are shown a clean pair of heels by one. A victory in the scooby through the twisties or down the bypass is never that enjoyable because you know the other driver knew it was coming....maybe now all that will change The car isn't untouchable...far from it actually, but I've yet to be beaten, so for now I'm happy

pacenote

Enjoyed the show - interesting comments.
For me the best ford on the show was the Escort RS1800 and that looked a mint example, okay not the most powerful of cars (in standard form )by comparison with modern RS's but loads of fun to drive

marty_t3

Saxoboy,

Thats a good point. People who watched TG will undoubtedly assume that the scoob isn't that fast. That is a fair assumption from what was shown. What most viewers will not realize is the Impreza that was shown was probably one of the slowest out there (with the exception of my 94 wrx shed). (no offense to any owners out there - it's a very good car, backed up by clarky picking it over the RS)

With any luck it'll take the scoob back to its days of being annonimous. Just means that there'll be more 'grin' moments from owners of old WRXs, Stis, P1s, RB5s etc, when Civic and Focus drivers think they're about to blow them off the road.

[Edited by marty_t3 - 10/28/2002 10:10:19 AM]

ice man

Who gives a cr4p if an RS beats a scoob or a Civic Type R is a tenth of a second faster round the TG track than the WRX.
I didn't buy my scoob thinking it is the best and fastest car on the road. I bought it cos of the grin factor.
Every journey makes me smile and makes me enjoy driving. Ok the RS may be quicker but it won't have the same enjoyment factor for me as the Impreza does.

Diablo

Whats all this Scoob will toast it round the twisties

If I may, I'd like to make a few observations.

The Focus absolutely wasted the Scoob round the track.

The Civic (at £16,995 ) also beat the Scoob around the track.

But we all (I hope) appreciate that a standard Scoob is not an ideal track car.

Oh, and whats all this "it would be different had it been an Sti Cr@p.???

Sorry, but in terms of price, the Sti is not a direct competitor of the Focus RS, the Standard WRX (leaving run out discounts aside) is. In any event, the RS has been quicker than an Sti onn track as well.

Now to the "twisties" bit.

I've said it before and I've said it again. A standard Scoob has good grip, fantastic traction and good (but not excellent) handling. My (standard UK) Integra R was as fast if not faster around the "twisties" than my MY99 Impreza Turbo was. It had better handling, period. In the wet, the honda's traction was
Sh!te..LOL.. but once over 60 mph, and traction was no issue, it was easily a match for the Scoob. Regardless of how bumpy the road was . And it had pretty viscious torque steer on the bumps due to the diff.

The biggest issue the focus appears to have is nightmare torque steer on bumpy, heavily cambered roads. Aside from that, it appears to have the legs on the Scoob.

In reality, how many of you give it maximum attack on such roads anyway? Not many I'd guess. I'd put money on the fact that in the real world day to day, there would be nothing in it a to b - Focus or Impreza.

But the Focus driver would probably have had more fun. In something that is a damn sight better looking..LOL...

Given the choice of Focus RS or UK WRX, I'd take the Focus every time, and I haven't even driven one. Why? Simple, both will be fantastic machines in their own way and the Scoob simply doesn't have the X factor (if you know what I mean) any more.

In a sense, its too well rounded, too generally competent at everything but doesn't excel (over the competition) in any particular areas - and gets beaten by £16-17k hot hatches in others.

The focus may be flawed (and that steering wheel would have to go)but it has (even from an observers point of view) the X factor that makes me want one.

It also appears to excel in certain areas.

If the choice was between STI7 and Focus, that would be different But then a ppp STI7 is going to cost what, £28,500 ??? £6k difference buys a nice Westfield for the narrow, bumpy road fun .

Just my take on it

D






[Edited by Diablo - 10/28/2002 10:35:26 AM]

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

By John Felstead

Err, John...

I drove down the same mother of all flooded, boggy, quicksand riddled forest tracks in the middle of sherwood forest in my wife's Mini Cooper

& she drove out again

Twice!

No AWD or diff-lock or traction control or anything BMW add for extra grip etc etc

chrisp

Funny all the Ford owners on here (including myself ) have no intention in buying an RS Focus, so why is that .

chrisp

Maybe wrong on the last comment as we all know an impreza out handles a cossie and the RS Focus out handles a new impreza. So when are you boys trading in your cossies for an RS Focus so you can out handle an impreza .

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Well when you get replies like this :-

"im 20 been out in a p1 did not think much of it the brakes were good"

You know these people have never been out in one (as the P1's brakes suck (so did mine and i only had 215bhp!)
Focus RS, well that says it all, built and tested in Germany no doubt perfect roads and tracks, even Audi agree that they need to change their cars suspension for the UK's roads, the focus is a fast track car, has lots of gizmos so it will flatter its driver more than any car (thus meaning that you dont have to be very skilled to drive it ) so no doubt you will have lots of RS owners wanting it
I'd like to test drive one myself (just for comparison) as i wouldnt really want one (prefer my scoob ) but i think it may be a very tiring car for the UK's roads and a bit dodgy and with no real tuning packages coming from ford (suspension etc) it will just be another quick hot hatch (just look at the track record in the last few years for quick cars from ford, the Racing Puma, bit of a flop...... the ST200..... Reps motor and now the ST220 which no doubt will go the same way ) and as for the Focus Cosworth.... seeing will be believing me thinks

Tony

marty_t3

I may be wrong here but didn't the arrival of the early WRXs have the same effect on the escort cossie. The original scoob was just a gnats nut quicker and as a result the escort cossie lost it's crown to the scoob and was drawn back to being more of a cult classic (even though it was still a excellent fast car).

With any luck the scoob will go down the same road. The best thing for Subaru to do now is kill off the impreza, develop something new and regain it's crown. It's obviously lost it's way with the newer imprezas. (yeah they're still good cars... but they just can't keep up with recent competition).

<hiding in flame proof bunker>

HELLOM8

Yes the Ford is quicker in this test and yes it is 2 seconds slower than the Scoob 0-100, but the Civic beat the Impreza as well.

chrisp

Can you get more power out of an RS or CTR though liek an extra 70bhp and more importantly would you want too or would it become undriveable. 215bhp is well under tuned for an impreza chassis .

P1_BEN

Well i certainly wouldn't change my P1 for a focus RS anyday... Still think asides from the 22B it is the ultimate UK.....!!!! impreza.

CraigH

Oooooooh,

Lets just register on Scoobynet so we can wind them up over the Focus RS - and you say on RSOC we're childish on here?

Personally, choice between bugeyed Scoob and Focus RS, out of the box, no comparison - Focus everytime. It looks excellent and costs sub 20k. To get a current Scoob near it, you'd need to change the suspension, brakes and at least a full decat - so about 3ks worth.....STI isn't a competitor - is to much more expensive for something that's not fundamentally faster.

It may well be that Scoobs are quicker on bumpy B roads in the wet - but I don't cane my car down that type of road.

Interiors pretty horrible tho apart from the carbon centre

Or you could save 10k and buy a 3 year old STI V and blow them both away

Ali-T

Couple of points on the (forgotten) Civic type R.

a) It only costs £15,995

b) It has no diff yet still handles superbly

c) It has 'only' 197bhp standard but Mugen now have a 290bhp show version. God knows what it costs though, but with the standard car usefully cheaper than the others, that give sthe CTR driver more to play with.

d) I like mine

stanmo

iTrader: (1)

Given the initial comments about B road performance, I wonder how good the next incarnation of the Focus RS will be ?

It'll probably take a year or so to sort out any gripes with bumpy road performance, but then it'll be pretty much unbeatable. Remember, it's version 1.0 and can't be perfect.

The scoob was almost in a class of it's own 4 years ago, but as it's been the benchmark of every performance car manufacturer since, it's kind of inevitable that it would get knocked off the top spot.

I'd still buy a prodrived STI VII over the FRS; but then living in agricultural country I'd want the 4wd every time to cope with rain, mud and poorly maintained roads, and forgive my hamfisted driving.

Vanish

Anyone watching the full programme will have seen that JC gave the RS to his camera man to drive back he hated it that much and got back in the Impreza.
When he got back he told all the RS members present he hated it around the bumpies.
There wont be much in it on the road and I am a member of the RS owners club.
I pick up my MY01 this week and will be comparing it directly to me mates Focus RS on the road when he gets it in January.
The inside word on the Focus in RS circles is that it breaks very easily and will not like being tuned due to the variable boost controlled by the gearing.
A second hand Sti with options to increase power even further is a far more interesting prospect than a Focus RS that wont be popular when we hear the true story's appear over the next six months.
I chose the MY01 because Ford have got nothing new and RS that is a reasonable price in comparison to the Impreza.
Mind you I always have liked being the odd one out that doesn't like to conform.
Anyway how often are you gonna see the Focus RS on the road in it's limited numbers so who cares.

[Edited by Vanish - 10/28/2002 12:14:44 PM]

Marky-San

The Impreza is a legend. Full stop.