**** BEDFORD IS ON - NO EXCUSES NOW !! ****
30 October 2002, 09:51 AM
#91
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Lee,
The people that agree that mailed you- are they track day regulars? Have they ever been on track? Or are they hypothesising?
Quote from MLR for you
"I just read Lee's thread on scoobynet, he's still banging on about it being a scooby only day first, then open to others only if space is available. You already know that theirs not enough interested scooby boys to fill the day, so whats the problem"
"Currently i`m a member of the SIDC, i wont be renewing my membership next time `round because of strupid rulings such as this one."
"
I've been a member for two years now mainly because of cheap, well organised track days. When I got my Evo in September last year, I asked Stef if I could still come to the days if I rejoined. What a waste of money that was, they've hardly had any since apart from in Scotland!!!
Certainly won't be rejoining "
"Seems a bit strange Every SIDC trackday i've been to has had SIDC members who don't even own an Impreza
They should sort themselves out, it's a bit of a shambles"
Now obviously these are the negative comments - theres also comments from EVO guys saying how good the SIDC days are that they've been on. Which they are.
But after reading what John said - is this the ONLY SIDC event planned apart from Nat Day?
The people that agree that mailed you- are they track day regulars? Have they ever been on track? Or are they hypothesising?
Quote from MLR for you
"I just read Lee's thread on scoobynet, he's still banging on about it being a scooby only day first, then open to others only if space is available. You already know that theirs not enough interested scooby boys to fill the day, so whats the problem"
"Currently i`m a member of the SIDC, i wont be renewing my membership next time `round because of strupid rulings such as this one."
"
I've been a member for two years now mainly because of cheap, well organised track days. When I got my Evo in September last year, I asked Stef if I could still come to the days if I rejoined. What a waste of money that was, they've hardly had any since apart from in Scotland!!!
Certainly won't be rejoining "
"Seems a bit strange Every SIDC trackday i've been to has had SIDC members who don't even own an Impreza
They should sort themselves out, it's a bit of a shambles"
Now obviously these are the negative comments - theres also comments from EVO guys saying how good the SIDC days are that they've been on. Which they are.
But after reading what John said - is this the ONLY SIDC event planned apart from Nat Day?
30 October 2002, 09:57 AM
#92
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Whats your actual point ? I fail to see one in that last post.
Tell you what, we'll do it in reverse. You tell me what policy you think should be in place. Take it back a few months ie the club has just been offered bedford..let me know what you'd then do next, how you'd market it. I'm not being patronising, I'm being deadly serious because the only way we can ever move this "argument" forwards is for others to come up with a plan and then we'll tell you whats wrong with it.
Tell you what, we'll do it in reverse. You tell me what policy you think should be in place. Take it back a few months ie the club has just been offered bedford..let me know what you'd then do next, how you'd market it. I'm not being patronising, I'm being deadly serious because the only way we can ever move this "argument" forwards is for others to come up with a plan and then we'll tell you whats wrong with it.
30 October 2002, 10:46 AM
#93
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Lee
Without entering into any of the discussions that are taking place in this thread, could you tell me...
A. How many places are required to run the event at Bedford
B. How many places are filled.
C. When you will open up the event to non-Scoobies (if at all)
Cheers
Jeff
Without entering into any of the discussions that are taking place in this thread, could you tell me...
A. How many places are required to run the event at Bedford
B. How many places are filled.
C. When you will open up the event to non-Scoobies (if at all)
Cheers
Jeff
30 October 2002, 11:01 AM
#94
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Jeff, as a result of your post I've just called bedford and agreed a minimum number.
We now have that minimum number, so the day can go ahead.
My personal view is that since we are making no money from the day I do not feel compelled to offer any places to other clubs. ie we have now met our committment with a predominantly impreza line up, we may as well stick to what we have.
Would appreciate any sensible comments on this.
We now have that minimum number, so the day can go ahead.
My personal view is that since we are making no money from the day I do not feel compelled to offer any places to other clubs. ie we have now met our committment with a predominantly impreza line up, we may as well stick to what we have.
Would appreciate any sensible comments on this.
30 October 2002, 11:02 AM
#95
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FFS. This has been mentioned so many times. The event is open to non-Scoobies now!!!!
And there are 36-or so places left - check the SIDC shop (link at the start of this thread) for availability.
And there are 36-or so places left - check the SIDC shop (link at the start of this thread) for availability.
30 October 2002, 11:02 AM
#96
Lee, you havent confirmed or denied the question about this being the SIDC's last track day (except for the anual national day). If it is the last one, isnt all this just a lot of hot air now?
Can you not just concentrate on getting this one event to run? I.E everyone is welcome to attend, because you failed to fill the event with Subaru's. I still dont get why you insist on sticking to a policy that plainly has failed.
I would also like to let you know, i attended the last 3 RS owners club National Day track events, twice in my westfield, once in my cosworth. They had no problem with other marques whatsoever. They didnt treat me as a second class member of the club because i wanted to drive my westfield. (they also didnt promise me a full afternoon on track then cut that short by an hour because they made a mistake on the curfew time, that afternoon was not good VFM)
An extra note, the SIDC couldnt fill the National day with Impreza's this year, there were EVO's etc running on track with the scoobs. So even back then there was no need to limit the entry to Subaru's only, because you couldnt fill the event with Subaru's even with all the publicity the National day brings.
You are hanging on to an idealism that simply doesnt work in this economic climate and your making things much more dificult for the members because events are being cancelled when with a bit of accepting reality would have allowed them to run.
Can you not just concentrate on getting this one event to run? I.E everyone is welcome to attend, because you failed to fill the event with Subaru's. I still dont get why you insist on sticking to a policy that plainly has failed.
I would also like to let you know, i attended the last 3 RS owners club National Day track events, twice in my westfield, once in my cosworth. They had no problem with other marques whatsoever. They didnt treat me as a second class member of the club because i wanted to drive my westfield. (they also didnt promise me a full afternoon on track then cut that short by an hour because they made a mistake on the curfew time, that afternoon was not good VFM)
An extra note, the SIDC couldnt fill the National day with Impreza's this year, there were EVO's etc running on track with the scoobs. So even back then there was no need to limit the entry to Subaru's only, because you couldnt fill the event with Subaru's even with all the publicity the National day brings.
You are hanging on to an idealism that simply doesnt work in this economic climate and your making things much more dificult for the members because events are being cancelled when with a bit of accepting reality would have allowed them to run.
30 October 2002, 11:08 AM
#97
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Lee,
Point of the post was the people who are agreeing with you - is there any relelvence to the trackday scene, ie, do they actually do or intend to do any? or are they just say "IF" I did a track day I'd prefer it as Subaru only?
And quotes were from another board, from SIDC members.......
As to the marketing. We'll take it back, what 3 months?
Obviously it needs to be posted in Trackdays. On Snet. For the sake of a few pounds I would have paid for a banner on here - last SIDC trackday of year, blah blah blah.
If it was indeed your attention to inlcude all marques, I'd state it on here first. That way non Impreza owning SIDC members would know they were allowed on.
After a month, I'd see how it was going - if figures were below what's required, then it's time to advertise the event on the other boards. If it gets filled up 50% Scoobs 50% others then great - and to all the Impreza owners who would then miss it 'cos it was booked, TOUGH. That's the stance that needs to be in place.
An event is booked. X time is allocated for Scoobs - and it can't be up till 1 or 2 weeks before the event.
If it doesn't get filled other marques are allowed, as long as they are members.
You can't keep a closed book on the off chance that a Scoob owner may not get a place - so you have 1 person moaning - and say 20 impreza driving SIDC members happy and 20 non impreza owning SIDC members happy cos the day has gone ahead and not been cancelled.
Having other marque owners as members in SIDC can also bring fresh ideas and reciprocated events to the table - get to mingle with the other clubs and form alliances, rather than just stagnate into one big, dull club. We don't have the variety of cars like the RSOC does to work like them.
On your BBS Lee, can you setup a voting post with some basic questions - put a link on here and some other clubs - to see what the general consensus is?
I think at the moment, all that's going to happen is a lot of SIDC members won't rejoin again - and surely that can't be to the clubs benefit?
Point of the post was the people who are agreeing with you - is there any relelvence to the trackday scene, ie, do they actually do or intend to do any? or are they just say "IF" I did a track day I'd prefer it as Subaru only?
And quotes were from another board, from SIDC members.......
As to the marketing. We'll take it back, what 3 months?
Obviously it needs to be posted in Trackdays. On Snet. For the sake of a few pounds I would have paid for a banner on here - last SIDC trackday of year, blah blah blah.
If it was indeed your attention to inlcude all marques, I'd state it on here first. That way non Impreza owning SIDC members would know they were allowed on.
After a month, I'd see how it was going - if figures were below what's required, then it's time to advertise the event on the other boards. If it gets filled up 50% Scoobs 50% others then great - and to all the Impreza owners who would then miss it 'cos it was booked, TOUGH. That's the stance that needs to be in place.
An event is booked. X time is allocated for Scoobs - and it can't be up till 1 or 2 weeks before the event.
If it doesn't get filled other marques are allowed, as long as they are members.
You can't keep a closed book on the off chance that a Scoob owner may not get a place - so you have 1 person moaning - and say 20 impreza driving SIDC members happy and 20 non impreza owning SIDC members happy cos the day has gone ahead and not been cancelled.
Having other marque owners as members in SIDC can also bring fresh ideas and reciprocated events to the table - get to mingle with the other clubs and form alliances, rather than just stagnate into one big, dull club. We don't have the variety of cars like the RSOC does to work like them.
On your BBS Lee, can you setup a voting post with some basic questions - put a link on here and some other clubs - to see what the general consensus is?
I think at the moment, all that's going to happen is a lot of SIDC members won't rejoin again - and surely that can't be to the clubs benefit?
30 October 2002, 11:12 AM
#98
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Lee
I sympathise with you mate, esp as you are doing this as a 'favour' for all of us, but there needs to be a little more consistency in the marque issue.
We clearly NEED other marques to make this viable for us (as it was originally cancelled...) so there should be NO ambiguity about them being allowed on for this one - they need to be welcomed with open arms. Period.
I respect and understand what you say about quality of driving however, but will worry about this if we get ever there
Stiff upper lip mate & thanks - honest!
I sympathise with you mate, esp as you are doing this as a 'favour' for all of us, but there needs to be a little more consistency in the marque issue.
We clearly NEED other marques to make this viable for us (as it was originally cancelled...) so there should be NO ambiguity about them being allowed on for this one - they need to be welcomed with open arms. Period.
I respect and understand what you say about quality of driving however, but will worry about this if we get ever there
Stiff upper lip mate & thanks - honest!
30 October 2002, 11:17 AM
#99
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Lee,
I dunno what to say. Either there is a general rule or theres not. Either other marques are allowed - as you said they have been all along or not.
This is almost like "The world is flat, no it's round" debate.
I dunno what to say. Either there is a general rule or theres not. Either other marques are allowed - as you said they have been all along or not.
This is almost like "The world is flat, no it's round" debate.
30 October 2002, 11:49 AM
#101
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Lee,
Forgive if I'm wrong, but your post implies that now you've broken even, you won't take any further bookings. If that's the case, it strikes me that in order to avoid any non scoob involvement, you could fairly be accused of cutting of your nose to spite your face.
Is it not better to make a small profit if you can?
I don't know if it was the same guy who was quoted from the MLR, but the Evo owner with an SIDC sticker that I met at Bedford on Saturday stated that he was a member because of the trackdays. Would it not be a shame, not to mention counter-productive, to alienate such members.
Personally, I still feel that one of the main reasons the SIDC has seen declining interest is because of the spaces sold on other companies, and there has been nothing within any of the Bedford threads to make me change my mind.
Josh
Forgive if I'm wrong, but your post implies that now you've broken even, you won't take any further bookings. If that's the case, it strikes me that in order to avoid any non scoob involvement, you could fairly be accused of cutting of your nose to spite your face.
Is it not better to make a small profit if you can?
I don't know if it was the same guy who was quoted from the MLR, but the Evo owner with an SIDC sticker that I met at Bedford on Saturday stated that he was a member because of the trackdays. Would it not be a shame, not to mention counter-productive, to alienate such members.
Personally, I still feel that one of the main reasons the SIDC has seen declining interest is because of the spaces sold on other companies, and there has been nothing within any of the Bedford threads to make me change my mind.
Josh
30 October 2002, 11:54 AM
#102
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Is it not better to make a small profit if you can?
ARE YOU MAD?
30 October 2002, 11:59 AM
#104
It's neither Craig, it's egg shaped. Well sort of egg shaped with a slightly bashed in top and bottom, like you just attacked it with a spoon after hard boiling it.
P.S I need to learn to type faster.
P.S I need to learn to type faster.
30 October 2002, 12:09 PM
#105
No,
the agreement with Bedford (as I understand it), is that any bookings over the minimum (numbers reached already), the money will go to Bedford - ie they'll want £165 for each car that books up. It doesn't matter if another 20 cars book up or not, the club won't make any money out of the arrangement. This means that the event can go ahead as planned, and the club does not have any financial risk by needing at least another 20 cars to take part to break even. It's a win-win situation so to speak.
John
the agreement with Bedford (as I understand it), is that any bookings over the minimum (numbers reached already), the money will go to Bedford - ie they'll want £165 for each car that books up. It doesn't matter if another 20 cars book up or not, the club won't make any money out of the arrangement. This means that the event can go ahead as planned, and the club does not have any financial risk by needing at least another 20 cars to take part to break even. It's a win-win situation so to speak.
John
30 October 2002, 12:18 PM
#107
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If we keep this up and make them enough money, maybe they'll thank us with a free trackday next time?
The rate we're going, SDB will be able to pay for a free trackday for all of us as a result of the advertising revenues from the page impressions of this thread alone.
30 October 2002, 01:11 PM
#109
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Jeff, just book it. I have, although I have repeatedly asked if its Ok, but I'm not getting an answer. I know that there are the following going which aren't Scoobs:
1 slow black skoda
Blade in his Evo
1 or 2 RX7s
Davyboy in his Porker
XTR2??
So you won't be alone
1 slow black skoda
Blade in his Evo
1 or 2 RX7s
Davyboy in his Porker
XTR2??
So you won't be alone
30 October 2002, 01:16 PM
#110
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The SIDC committee have been discussing this problem in great details.
The final decision will be for future events.
"When a track event (whether run exclusively by the club or in organisation with other parties) is first booked and announced, only members of the club shall be able to book one of the allocated places. After this first month has elapsed, any remaining places shall be available to non-members of the
club, subject to an additional premium."
The final decision will be for future events.
"When a track event (whether run exclusively by the club or in organisation with other parties) is first booked and announced, only members of the club shall be able to book one of the allocated places. After this first month has elapsed, any remaining places shall be available to non-members of the
club, subject to an additional premium."
30 October 2002, 01:17 PM
#111
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Is it not better to make a small profit if you can?
ROFLMAO. What, and then have a 10-page thread on Scoobynet slating the SIDC because it's not supposed to be a profit-making organisation, with the track day participants complaining that they've been ripped off with overpricing and profit-taking?!!?
30 October 2002, 02:00 PM
#114
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Not that I'm trying to open a can of worms, but...
Club members? Is that Subaru owning or other included? ie, such as me and the Westfield?
If you could clarify that it'd be great
Cheers
Club members? Is that Subaru owning or other included? ie, such as me and the Westfield?
If you could clarify that it'd be great
Cheers
30 October 2002, 02:10 PM
#116
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Since I've not had a definative response regarding my query about non-scoobies and the fact that I've discovered that I'm still a SIDC member I've booked myself into this event. I decided to do this after the other thread started by sidclisa saying that the booking would shut at 3pm today.
Jeff
Jeff
30 October 2002, 02:38 PM
#117
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I have to admit that I hadn't noticed some of 'non profit' arguments people have mentioned.
However, there's absolutely no reason why the 'premium' of any additional non members couldn't go to subsidise the rest. It would still be a cheaper day for them than booking through the trackday companies.
Josh
However, there's absolutely no reason why the 'premium' of any additional non members couldn't go to subsidise the rest. It would still be a cheaper day for them than booking through the trackday companies.
Josh
30 October 2002, 02:44 PM
#118
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Any bookings made will be honoured regardless of the car you drive.
Josh - we've always strived towards breaking even. Making a profit on an event just means people paid slightly more than they could have. However in light of last years finances, making a few quid on some events might be a good idea for a small pot to fall back on when other things go pear shaped.
Josh - we've always strived towards breaking even. Making a profit on an event just means people paid slightly more than they could have. However in light of last years finances, making a few quid on some events might be a good idea for a small pot to fall back on when other things go pear shaped.
30 October 2002, 03:02 PM
#119
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Isn't there a simple compromise here? Track days are advertised and SIDC memebers get first shot,maybe a 2 week lead time,then all marques can book,whether they are SIDC members or not.
Or is that too easy? As an outsider I am reading a lot of sense from John F and Craig H,but they are having to repeat themselves over and over again.If the SIDC is losing money then a simple,easy to understand policy such as the one above would seem appropiate.Or maybe i'm just missing the point,being an Alfa owner i may be at a disadvantage!
Or is that too easy? As an outsider I am reading a lot of sense from John F and Craig H,but they are having to repeat themselves over and over again.If the SIDC is losing money then a simple,easy to understand policy such as the one above would seem appropiate.Or maybe i'm just missing the point,being an Alfa owner i may be at a disadvantage!
30 October 2002, 04:40 PM
#120
Fat Boy Mobile and slightly non subaru throbbin' purple 5 litre race prepared TVR booked as well
I think the points have been made now and endless repetition from both sides won't achieve anything.
For the future,the 2 week window for club members for a club day seems sensible to me as does the then throwing open to all comers in order ensure the success.
However, one issue that we need to think about though is whenever I have gone on other trackdays I have found the 20 min sessions/ non open pit lane format etc to be a pain in the ****, but is there an alternative once you have big discrepancies in performance? I have to say that I enjoy the variety on those days, but do get pi55ed off hanging around the pits waiting for the next session for which you've got to be ready like it or not, and would get a bit irritated if I'm constantly having to give way to faster kit like Craig's airfix thing etc
. I'm not saying that we can't have faster cars but the gap needs to be sensible- I went on Easytracks Silverstone GP day in the summer and in the same group as my P1 were things like a Lola T70 (gorgeous), a full race 2002spec GT3 supercup car which won an European endurance race the following weekend "mind you when we got on the twisty bits etc..."
, loads of radicals etc , various obscure race cars, porker turbos, etc... I trashed a slick and missed 3 sessions trying to get it sorted so spent a couple of hundred quid entry fee for approximately 20 laps in total during which I was constantly forced off line or to brake to allow some rocket sled through.
Any ideas, and no I won't be buying a cossie to have the supercup car......
I think the points have been made now and endless repetition from both sides won't achieve anything.
For the future,the 2 week window for club members for a club day seems sensible to me as does the then throwing open to all comers in order ensure the success.
However, one issue that we need to think about though is whenever I have gone on other trackdays I have found the 20 min sessions/ non open pit lane format etc to be a pain in the ****, but is there an alternative once you have big discrepancies in performance? I have to say that I enjoy the variety on those days, but do get pi55ed off hanging around the pits waiting for the next session for which you've got to be ready like it or not, and would get a bit irritated if I'm constantly having to give way to faster kit like Craig's airfix thing etc
. I'm not saying that we can't have faster cars but the gap needs to be sensible- I went on Easytracks Silverstone GP day in the summer and in the same group as my P1 were things like a Lola T70 (gorgeous), a full race 2002spec GT3 supercup car which won an European endurance race the following weekend "mind you when we got on the twisty bits etc...", loads of radicals etc , various obscure race cars, porker turbos, etc... I trashed a slick and missed 3 sessions trying to get it sorted so spent a couple of hundred quid entry fee for approximately 20 laps in total during which I was constantly forced off line or to brake to allow some rocket sled through.Any ideas, and no I won't be buying a cossie to have the supercup car......