LEGACYTURBS

I NEED IT, I NEED IT, I NEED IT.

SeepyScoob

WHY? WHY?? WHY???

Scooby-Doo

Does this improve the performance of the car in any way ? or is it just "IMHO" a sad max power mod

LEGACYTURBS

COS fire comes out the pipe

Dyney

Guys if you think it's sad why did you read the thread?
Everyone has their own taste and is entitled to it!!!!

Iain.

paul-s

cheers

I only posted this to ask if anyone was in the same situation with theirs not working. I didnt need a group pi$$ take.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Supposedly a VTA will lean your mixture, this isnt good as it could cause det which will decrease your engine life considerably and leave you with a large bill (and it can also affect some cars performance).
Its not 100% proven though but id rather not take the chance on buying a new engine

Tony

NOS nova

how the hell does a VTA dump valve lean your mixture???

if it is going to do anything it will rich it up!

going over 4000rpm is bad for your engine too as it is where the turbo is on full boost!

better not do that ether eh?

Brun

Thought a VTA made it run richer, hence flames?

H dejong

@ Jack B:

What's your setup to produce that kind of flames?

Regards,

Hans

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Ok, if a VTA makes your car run richer then why doesnt ANY car manufacturer add these as a standard item (as they are quite cheap) and instead add re-circ DV's?

Tony

PS, you can get flames running a recirc DV, all you really need for them is a full decat system

EvilBevel

Erm... Tony, you might want to read up on this again, before using the rolleyes.

If anything, a VTA BOV indeed causes a slightly rich mixture on liftoff, but it could be argued that it will be minimal.

Rich doesn't equate to good BTW... so I don't see what manufacturers have to do with it.

My concern with a VTA would be leaking on part throttle, therefor running too rich, which might cause bore wash etc.

The standard BOV does indeed "leak" air on part throttle, but I'm not sure if the VTA ones do the same.

Not trying to defent VTA's, still on the OEM one myself, but no use in using the wrong arguments pro or con.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Evil,
my point is that if it makes your car run richer then why dont they have them fitted as standard?
Simple fact is, is that the one thats on there doesnt give the changing and sometimes non consistant variables (ie it runs rich etc) where as a standard dv would hopefully not change anything when dumping the gasses and keeping a constant
The was basically if they were that good and worked perfectly then why are they not fitted as standard, but ive already answered that question

Tony

paul-s

i thought the VTA dump the pressure out into the system, but this was air that had already been accounted for by the MAF. therefore more fuel would be injected to compensate and this wouldnt be required so it would be discharged and lit by the time it got to the tailpipe.

with a nothing or a recirc. this air would still be in the system tho.

RB5SCOTT

Tony, why would they want to make the car run richer when manufacturers have spent loads of money tuning ECU's to make a standard car run the correct fueling

Scott

paul-s

its not designed to run richer; its excess fuel which has been injected to compensate for the dumped air, but has no use so ends up down the exhaust.

EvilBevel

Which is exactly why I suggested reading up on this subject. As Scott says, you need *correct* fuelling for each RPM/load, and "rich" doesn't mean "better".

You seem to equate "rich" with "good". And that's not how it works (unless we talk money). And you first suggested that a VTA might lean out the mixture, which is totally incorrect.

Further more, there are arguments *PRO* VTA's. Pete Croney for example suggested that MAF oil contamination might be less of an issue with a VTA than with the OEM recirc system. Not proven, but he might have a point.

IMHO, not a dig etc... and no, I'm not fitting a flamer kit. If you want flames, just pull up to the rev limiter, then change to the next gear without lifting your foot off the throttle... nice flames <disclaimer: engine/drivetrain may not like this )

dowser

I get flames (does anyone remember the "but does it give flames" thread? Classic ) after fitting a different manifold (with the OE DV, without a flamer kit, with a decat) - does someone want to buy, I want rid of them?

There's a school of thought that says too lean a mixture will also cause flames - not enough fuel to burn in cylinder, so goes through unburnt and collects in exhaust and.....bang!

Richard (in a silly mood)

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Scott,
i actually said on the other page that it would probably run lean, if the ecu isnt set up for a vta then after its got rid of all that unwanted fuel it may for an instant run lean in doing so (thus not very good).

Tony

EvilBevel

And I'll say again on this page that that is bollox. Not what happens. Again suggesting to read up on this matter.

indeed.

DanTheMan

Dosent it only run rich when the dump valve dumps, otherwise its the same as a recirc ? so its only when you back off or change gear that you get that tiny bit extra fuel ?

Anyway we fitted two on the weekend and it was flames when "making progress" and thats with recirc dump valves although a VTA one is in the post

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Evil,
look at it from the ecu's point of view
You have just dumped a load of unburnt fuel into the engine, to compensate this the next lot you put in will be more "watered down" ie leaner, now the fact is that you dont have to lean it out as this is a by product of running a vta dv but for the next cycle its going to run your engine very lean if the ecu isnt adapted for it (and thats not good for your engine )
The engine was designed to run with a recirc dv, changing this and not having the ecu remapped to compensate will mean you are running lean.

Tony

cheeseboy

thats gotto be good for your engine

Mad4it

I also have fitted the flamer kit to my scoob. I also have a GTTurbo, and Cossie, and the results on those both are excellent. Unfortunately, the results on the Scoob are pretty dissapointing. I have only been able to make a large flame from pulling away at the traffic lights, and dropping the clutch.

There is a technique to it - Rev upto say, 6,000 rpm, take your foot off the accelerator pedal, and let the revs die down to 4,000rpm, press the clutch down fully, and tap the accelerator pedal, and this should give you flames.

There are other ways the flames should come out, by bouncing on the rev limiter, and also on overun. This depends on how much fuel your car is using.

paul-s

do you have a full de cat, coz what you describe is pretty much how mine works, only I still have a downpipe cat. I think the car is running rich tho, altho the downpipe is coming off tomorrow so i should be able to report back better results ! !

out of interest why are so many people against the idea ? ? it doesn't do it all the time ?

Big_Snapper

The issue here is getting unburnt fuel to the end of the tail pipe. imo you must have a decat. The age of the car i think is the main variable, the latter the car the harder to get flames due to better emmision control. I think there is 2 ways to get this unburbt fuel into the pipe.
Firstly, coolant sensor, when the car is cold the ecu must richen the mixture. So if we can fool this sensor into thinking that the engine is cold surely extra fuel will be added, giving a rich mixture.
Secondly, throttle position sensor, if this is adjusted, will it trigger the resumption of fuelling for tickover earlier? if it does will this give extra fuel when u back off?

These are just my thoughts, they are probably just a laod of crap! perhaps someone with real technical knowledge can shed some light on the matter.

As for all the comments about why would u want flames etc, why do we really have these cars? the end of the day they are FUN and I think that is it. I know that is what mine is for. We are all boys and girls with grown ups toys. If you dont like toys go and buy a Vectra or similar.

So hope someone can give us some technial gems for us boys to get our flames. Keith.STI V5

Nick200

IMO I like the flamer kits, but I wont fit one because the money could be better spent elsewhere.

Also why do people feel offended by them, so what if somebody has got one as long as they dont set fire to your car.
On the plus side it would be handy for those tailgating BMW's..

CC

IMHO (in other words dont shoot me down for this ), I think they're a bit sad really , naff springs to mind.

Saying that, my scoob flames anyway , WITHOUT the flamer kit lol .

eddiebeef

Depends on how much extra fuel goes in. A little bit is good as it has a cooling effect but too much can wash the lubricant off the cylinder walls. I think most imprezas probably run a little rich to begin with so....................??

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

The Impreza has fallen into the hands of people fitting flamer kits!!! :OMG:



Whats wrong with real flames??

rather than fake ones?

Just my opinion..

Glad to see the VTA is still doing the roads on the topics of conversation..

JGM