ustolemyname??stevieturbo

iTrader: (1)

Apart from cost, but the 'Ultimate Impreza' isnt going to cheap anyway.
Or the Ultimate Legacy for that matter , but with a legacy you already have as much as £5-10K headstart over a lot of cars.

David_Wallis

To clear a few things up...

I didnt see harveys car run as I went to mcdonalds.. doh..

all I can say is its an impressive car with good power... as said before, you can drive around the rest... all that matters is harvey is happy, as he is.. what we think doesnt count.. thats a good figure, and I think its going to go up..

Anyway to clear up...

Well lane 3 is where this all started... I had to get my car finished.. but, and I make no secrets about any of this...

I helped p20spd get his car ready.. (well didnt help get it ready, well lane 3 was a bi-product)

I helped steven do his car as we are good friends thanks to scoobynet (cant believe I just said that). I wish I had his money to spend on my car, but the sad state of affairs is that I dont.

I thought my car was going to do ****, when it ran I couldnt look... this is where the Im going to beat you crap started...

Paul came up to leeds and lent a hand without which my car wouldnt be running now, however this turned into a im going to beat you vicious (sp) circle.. this has now carried on past well lane 3 for the next obvious target.. well lane 4.

Pauls got a new engine.... I hate loosing so have just spent lots of money... plus lots more... steven doesnt really need to as creative mapping will sort him.. plus his other bits.

Andy, theres nothing personal here... Id say we are all friends (at the moment ) and all discuss future, present mods etc (Harvey included )

Its just theres no runners up, just loosers..

Either way, as pointed out by many on this board... Ive got a ban, so why waste my money?.... Rolling Road Days

Andy Ive got one thing to say...

Your car is slow and underpowered.. (and quicker and more powerfull than mine!)

And yours harvey

Still got more torque

Bring on well lane 4... That should liven things up a bit.. (NITROUS!!! Ha Ha!)

David

[Edited by David_Wallis - 11/22/2002 12:25:21 AM]

Pavlo

I for one am not out to "win" WL4(is it a competition?).

I'm just up for a good project, on a budget. And the last time I had a lot of fun (and a lot of alcohol in the run up to it!).

This will be the first time I've had the time and money to seriously mod any car, and with 108k miles, noisey tappets, cambelt due, clutch due, I figured i would roll it all into one big fix!

David_Wallis

Lol... Alcohol... that was nothing.. WL4 promises more

On a budget.. What Less pints ??

Look what youve done to my spec...

Head studs next..

David

Andy.F

David, More torque than who ???

David_Wallis

If held boost looking at our graphs, then Id have matched you pretty well.. to say the car hadnt been running for 9months and that was the result of 2 evenings... it wasnt bad...

Cant wait to see your car, and copy some ideas... care to drop me a mail regarding bocd?

Adam M

I agree with andy, it shouldnt all be about winning. Diversity certainly is interesting. So nice to have so many cars making high powers and torques.

Harvey, thanks for the link. dont appreciate your words though. Dont see why you take things as a personal attack, as it wasnt intended that way. Dont see whats wrong with asking to see how a 417bhp car makes its power compared with the crop of 350 cars.

I understand if you are defensive about your car, but I dont know enough about it to attack it, and even if I did, I wouldnt!

If I am all talk (which I resent by the way) then take a trip over to bill gwynne and see for yourself what is going on with my engine, and car, which have both been sitting there since jan. Believe me I would rather have just produced the same 350bhp cars everyone else has.

R19KET

Hey you guys, I don't have a problem with you running nitrous, but ALCOHOL !!!!!! that's out of order, and even our cars, a blo*dy waste

MArk.

David_Wallis

but thats because your southern and cant drink... hmm pre well lane 4 drinks

Lets see how you fair on the drinking stakes!

David

Andy.F

How about we have a little wager on the WL4 results

Each runner estimates his bhp and posts this on scoobynet, the closest to their actual power wins, er, something

The guy overestimating by the most bhp could get a slap (david) and the guy producing the highest excess above his estimate would be banned from returning (Mark)

R19KET

Andy,

(grin) I think you should just ban me, but not before we've all given David a slap, REGARDLESS of his results

Mark.

hypoluxa

Wasn't trying to start an argument or offend anyone, sorry if it came across that way,

GraigH's 1/4mile was a 12.2 @ 117mph. His car was dynoed at John Nobles and got circa 360-380bhp, 292 ATW.

Andy, If I remember correctly didn't you record a 11.8 @ 116mph? And you say you've 370bhp (where was that out of interest?). Your quicker time will mainly be down to traction and better technique/gearchanges, these effect the ET much more than they do terminal speed. So your terminal speeds and bhp figures are very similar.

Standard UK cars usually record TS's of around 95mph with 215bhp

Standard STis V5s/P1s are circa ~103mph with 280bhp

Harveys' is 110mph with around 420bhp.

Graig & Andys are 117 & 116mph respectively and around 360/370bhp.

Obviously these figures aren't conclusive by any means but one figure does stand out as being odd, it would appear that Harveys car is significantly slower then Andys or Craigs even though it has 50bhp more.?

Then again I've got a big fat zero in the horsepower department at the mo, so your doing a far better job then me Harvey... and I'm sure having considerably more fun.

Santa Pod 1 anybody

Andy.F

My bhp was measured in Scotland (star performance) so that doesn't count
It was on a rolling road and not a bench dyno so it is just bollokcs
My 1/4 mile was not at the pod so it's also invalid
My 0 - 100 time was measured by an AP22 accelerometer and they are the worst things ever for accuracy
I passed a tuned EVO7 at Knockhill like he had missed a gear, but he probably wasn't trying
I can hit the rev limiter in 5th within 14 seconds from a standing start but that's probably just a faulty limiter
My turbo makes 1.6 bar from 2500 rpm but I think the gauge is u/s
Full boost can be held to the red line but I think the tacho reads high
My ECU and Injectors are still standard so I can't be producing any more than 270 bhp and 250lb-ft on a good day
I seem to have only spent £1k so I guess someone is sneaking money into my wallet when I'm sleeping

Oh and finally, the car hasn't spent a year off the road so it must just be a 2.0 litre not a 2.5

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Very Interesting!
Will look at this over the week end.
Andy if you have got twin OBC's does that mean you have a different inlet/induction system. I guess it must help a lot.
Hypoluxa: Any observations or constructive input would be well received but as you do not have a starting weight,it was on wet track where grip was an issue, and I am unable to run foot to the floor until re-mapped because I had to make a replacement actuator arm then I think that with the best will in the world comparisons are of little relevance but I am open to a counter views within the laws of physics.
Nite nite.

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Andy: If you want a proper rev limiter and rev counter I have what you need. Are you still on 380cc injectors because looking at these figures there is something wrong.ie not poss according to conventional wisdom.Junked that 6 mths ago.
Also it is obvious your car is faster on the 1/4 with less power than mine so explain to those that do not understand, Why.

SecretAgentMan

Just a small comment...regarding quarter mile ventures (as my name was mentioned.

Comparing trap speeds does work *very* well as they don't differ much, even in bad conditions as the car (usually) doesn't accelerate much the last bit - that makes up for a poor launch or low grip conditions.

I've managed a 13+ 110 mph trap with a granny launch...

I'd say it's pretty obvious that Harveys proven car is seriously running out of it's power band at given times when accelerating.

How does the dyno graph look?

I'm guessing that it'll show a car with the same or even slightly less power, but with a nice flat torque curve coming in lower, will be faster.

But as Mark is saying - we all base our statements from personal experiences - the fun bit will be left to scoobee here, to try to make something out of this.

BUT - if anyone can show a downside (apart from echonomics) with a well built larger displacement scoob engine - please do.



/J

[Edited by SecretAgentMan - 11/22/2002 4:40:11 AM]

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

SHi t

Leave work on a thursday, come back friday morning and ...........

.........sheesh some of you guys take things personally.

quote andy f
I agree!

Everyone knows that David and i started a mutual wind up, trouble is a few others joined in, it seems to have escalted from there!

I personally am going to WL4 to have fun, watch a few cars, see if mine achieves what it did before, and then go to the pub afterwards for some food.

No way am i staying all day this time, so i dont really care who "wins", because i have already won in my own mind. By won, i mean i have achieved my own personal goals for the car, which is a victory for me.

Lighten up lads, at the end of the day who cares who "wins", treat it as a social event.

Steven




















must beat the southerners though (joking)

Adam M

nice one stephen,

hit the nail on the head.

Andy, genuine question. Now that you have discovered your fifth injector does nothing, does this mean you really are running 4 380cc injectors at roughly 370bhp?

If so, I presume fuel pressure is quite a bit higher than standard?

Kosy

iTrader: (2)

Very interesting thread

I know.....

Why dont you all just buy a Cossie.
(Sorry had to say it before someone else did )

Kos.

Pavlo

Steven, not staying till the end?

I should get a better slot! Or you could go to McDonalds for a massive grease-up as per last time.

I thought it was a good laugh especially the light pods...

What's this got to do with the ultimate road car anyway?

As far as spending goes, i already have the exhaust, turbo, chargecooler, ecu facility etc. So it's really just the new engine and rods that are costing me. Plus this is offset by sale of old closed deck block or short motor, £500 it would have cost me to get impreza heads on, £100 to do the cam belt, £400 to do the clutch. With all these other service related things, I don't think the true cost will be that high.

Besides, my car was well under £4k to start with.

Paul

Andy.F

Adam

I have the two little ERL injectors connected to the fuel rail (do you not listen ) which add approx 10% to the fueling at pressures over 1.2 bar. I have a pump from Mark and an FSE rising rate regulator. This regulator increases the fuel pressure at 1.7x the boost pressure, or so it claims, it actually works out around 1.3x
So base atmospheric fuel pressure of 3.2bar rises to 5.28bar at 1.6 bar boost.
It actually runs way too rich after 6000rpm as the VE falls off.

A DIY remap and a set of 550's will sort that out though

By my calcs, that will flow enough for 535.5263158 bhp
Now how am I going to get that much air in ?????? MAAAAAARRRK

Adam M

Andy,

of course I dont listen, have my head shoved too far up my own ****.

Rising rate?

if thats the case how can you quote a rate?

surely it has a range of rates depending on the boost pressure?

personally I a fan of fixed rate, I just reckon there is less to go wrong.

By the way your calculations are wrong!

I reckon on 535.5263159 bhp!

Andy.F

Did not want to appear arrogant so I rounded down

Adam M

LOL,


still doesnt explain how you can quote a fixed proportional rate for a rising rate fpr.

Andy.F

Rising rate means the fuel pressure rises at a proportionally higher rate than the boost pressure.....1.7 times to quote the design data.....but being a very simple controller with proportional action only ie no integral or derivative action to correct offsets and increase sensitivity then it will be influenced by parameters such as supply pressure and flow rates.
The calculated rising rate on my installation is 1.3x

Such 'bodges' are necessary in order to release in excess of 400bhp for under £1.5k

I'm not prepared to trade in my house for a 'proper' set up !!!

Adam M

Andy,

I was uder the impression that rising rate meant the rate of proportionality bewteen the fuel pressure and the boost pressure increase with with boost pressure.

Ie. fixed rate means at any point the fuel pressure is eg. 1.7 bar higher than the boost pressure.

rising rate would mean that at 1 bar boost it might be 2 bar of fuel pressure but at 2 bar boost it might be 4 bar fuel pressure.

Ie the fuel pressure differential has gone up by 1 bar over the boost interval from 1 bar to 2 bar.


when you said you had a rising rate therefore, based on my understanding, surely fuel pressure will be dependent on the boost pressure? ie. you can simply say its 1.7 bar above boost as rising rate would mean that 1.7 bar was not constant.

the way I see it is fixed rate = rising pressure

rising rate = rising pressure proportional to boost.

harvey

iTrader: (48)

nothing against harvey, as someone else posted his results for him.
Adam M.
Nobody posted my results for me.
I went on the net a day later and somebody (cannot remember who) had them up and they were referred to in various forums.
My car is here and now and the Well Lane figures and graphs were looked at by everybody that wanted to on the day including people more knowledgable than you. Mark, David and anybody else that had the least interest.
Also copied the graphs to people that have helped me.
John Pye "WTF is this **** we want about 500 bhp"
My friend Bob Rawle.
Jack Ho. His advice and input gave me new areas to look at. (Ion Performance, Canada.)
Went to Elvington in the rain with full fuel load and ran to get some bench marks.
I live in the world of hard facts.
If dreaming about 550ft/lbs gets you off for a year or two no prob but do not postulate on how undrivable or otherwise my car is on a public board.
Ask people who have been in it or driven it.
This car was at 377bhp on a VF28 which most people know is impossible and then there were a couple of mods and then the Ion Performance turbo and then 417bhp and now 424bhp+++.
What is this bit "if security was not an issue"
In your dreams Adam and the pundits.(sounds like a rock band)
Anybody with any doubts can come to Well Lane 4 or "New York" and I hope to have my latest mods complete for then.
Also if there is a track day convenient, then me and Andy Forrest and a few guys from the real world will show you how it is done.
Next Autumn will give you a bit of time to get your motor running.

David_Wallis

Harvey... next autumn sounds good, prepare to loose

Adam M

harvey, get off your high horse.

you think someone is threateneing the greatness of your car so you rush to insult and attack.

You think I give a **** about your exploits, just cos you have over 400bhp? Sorry but life is a little less shallow than caring about your pub talk.

I had not seen a >400 2.0 before and wanted to see a graph (not just figures) displaying if it had lost low down torque/power. But no, I must be attacking the greatness of your car. Did you not consider that since you are the first to do this publically, it migth have been instructive to others wanting to achieve the same thing?

I was not questioning your achievement or the accuracy of the numbers, even though I know rolling roads spout rubbish, it was never going to be miles out.

It is clear to me that it is important for you to be the big man with the fast car, so enjoy it.

JohnS

iTrader: (1)

Just buy this car, and import it from NZ

http://www.my105.com/product.asp?id=908&feature=1

Doesn't say what it's had done to get 500bhp though...

John