Ultimate Impreza 2.0 or 2.5 ?
23 November 2002, 09:38 PM
#151
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SecretAgentMum, given the parts yes,if i can build a nova that can do a quater mile in 12.3 i think i could do a good job with a subaru engine, hey look, my nova is faster than your impreza!
i am looking into doing a impreza next but with the attitude of some of the guys on here i'm not to sure.
looks like there is only a few of you that are not talking ****.
if i was to do a subaru next i think the only people i would contact about it are mark and harvey
they are the only two not talking out of there *****.
i am looking into doing a impreza next but with the attitude of some of the guys on here i'm not to sure.
looks like there is only a few of you that are not talking ****.
if i was to do a subaru next i think the only people i would contact about it are mark and harvey
they are the only two not talking out of there *****.
23 November 2002, 09:40 PM
#152
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Harvey, I either rightly or wrongly took your times as being a fair reflection on the performance of your car. IIRC you did not mention that you didn't have your 'foot to the floor' on the i-club thread.?
All things considered (including various wieghts) you only used between 330-350bhp of your cars power to do that particular run, which is nice
Rain will play a part in your times but will not effect your terminal speed by much at all. As Secret Agent Man mentions you can vary the time by up to 0.5s but still end up with the same terminal speed.
Force = mass x acceleration. So basically if you know the wieght of the car and have a 1/4mile time/speed you can calculate the power which is needed. If you know the gearing and frontal area you can get to within about 1% with a few calculations/formulas.
It is far more accurate than a rolling road.
Going back to the thread, for the price of a block and crank you'll end up with 2 short engines, one of the benefits is that your car will not be of the road for any lengthy time. When you come to sell the car stick the original short block in, and sell the other one. I'm sure it will offset the original additional cost of the block & crank.
It might be prudent with scoob engines not to put all your eggs in one basket
Adam, I would be interested in seeing them.
SAM, just out of interest have you had your car dynoed?
All things considered (including various wieghts) you only used between 330-350bhp of your cars power to do that particular run, which is nice
Rain will play a part in your times but will not effect your terminal speed by much at all. As Secret Agent Man mentions you can vary the time by up to 0.5s but still end up with the same terminal speed.
Force = mass x acceleration. So basically if you know the wieght of the car and have a 1/4mile time/speed you can calculate the power which is needed. If you know the gearing and frontal area you can get to within about 1% with a few calculations/formulas.
It is far more accurate than a rolling road.
Going back to the thread, for the price of a block and crank you'll end up with 2 short engines, one of the benefits is that your car will not be of the road for any lengthy time. When you come to sell the car stick the original short block in, and sell the other one. I'm sure it will offset the original additional cost of the block & crank.
It might be prudent with scoob engines not to put all your eggs in one basket
Adam, I would be interested in seeing them.
SAM, just out of interest have you had your car dynoed?
23 November 2002, 09:54 PM
#153
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NAWSNova - yes but even a fast heap o ****e is still nothing but a heap o ****e.
If I'd spent all that's invested in the scoob on straight line performance alone I'd HAMMER you. As if I could care less? Relax fella...please. 
Hypoluxa - No, I haven't dynoed it...I find it quite amusing to keep people (myself included) guessing how much power I've got - besides I "trust" the quarter trap speed more than a rolling road.
The 110 mph run was set with a VF23@1,4 bar - dropping off seriously after 6k...
It's now got a lovely hybrid (MD304) that spools faster, flows more, and doesn't drop off - so I imagine I could go a bit faster now.
The only issues right now are:
a, Fuelling - I'm out of the stuff even though I've lowered boost.
b, Tranny - will it hold up? Doubt it.
c, The chocolate spec euro internals. double -
/J
[Edited by SecretAgentMan - 11/23/2002 10:02:36 PM]
If I'd spent all that's invested in the scoob on straight line performance alone I'd HAMMER you. As if I could care less?
Relax fella...please. Hypoluxa - No, I haven't dynoed it...I find it quite amusing to keep people (myself included) guessing how much power I've got - besides I "trust" the quarter trap speed more than a rolling road.
The 110 mph run was set with a VF23@1,4 bar - dropping off seriously after 6k...
It's now got a lovely hybrid (MD304) that spools faster, flows more, and doesn't drop off - so I imagine I could go a bit faster now.
The only issues right now are:
a, Fuelling - I'm out of the stuff even though I've lowered boost.
b, Tranny - will it hold up? Doubt it.
c, The chocolate spec euro internals. double -
/J
[Edited by SecretAgentMan - 11/23/2002 10:02:36 PM]
23 November 2002, 10:11 PM
#154
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Adam,
Why rise to the bait ??????
Who gives a sh*t if NOS, or anyone else believes you, does it matter ?????
I wouldn't give them the satisfaction of posting pic's of your engine, anymore than I would post power graphs of my figures........
NOS,
If you think an engine of this nature can be built in 3 days, you're wrong......
For a start, there is a 3 month delivery on the forged billet crank......
Head work alone, is about 40 hours labour !
Your car has fantastic performance with such a small engine, but it relies on the NOS, GREAT for the 1/4 mile, but not very practical for the track.
We're not so 1/4 mile orientated, so we need to build an engine that can produce it's full power, continuously, on the track. Just a different approach, for a different application.
I'm all for constructive debate, that's how we ALL learn.
Mark.
Why rise to the bait ??????
Who gives a sh*t if NOS, or anyone else believes you, does it matter ?????
I wouldn't give them the satisfaction of posting pic's of your engine, anymore than I would post power graphs of my figures........
NOS,
If you think an engine of this nature can be built in 3 days, you're wrong......
For a start, there is a 3 month delivery on the forged billet crank......
Head work alone, is about 40 hours labour !
Your car has fantastic performance with such a small engine, but it relies on the NOS, GREAT for the 1/4 mile, but not very practical for the track.
We're not so 1/4 mile orientated, so we need to build an engine that can produce it's full power, continuously, on the track. Just a different approach, for a different application.
I'm all for constructive debate, that's how we ALL learn.
Mark.
24 November 2002, 12:00 AM
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SecretAgingMum - no need to spit your dummie out,ifs and buts mean nothing!!!
mark - what i meant was if you have all the parts you need in front of you, you can't tell me you couldn't build an engine in 3 days?
40 hours on the heads alone, what do you do to them?
or is this the way you justify charging the prices?
mark - what i meant was if you have all the parts you need in front of you, you can't tell me you couldn't build an engine in 3 days?
40 hours on the heads alone, what do you do to them?
or is this the way you justify charging the prices?
24 November 2002, 05:42 AM
#157
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NOS,
Ok, let's assume all the parts were sitting there, 3 days to prepare/measure/modify/machine the block, do a dummy engine build, measure all the oil clearances, and tolerances, deck the pistons, check compression ratio, strip engine, modify rods, crank, pistons as required, dummy build engine, re-check oil clearances, and tolerances, strip engine, balance rods, pistons, crank, flywheel, clutch cover, and front pulley, check re-profiled cams, replace valve guides, seats, seals, bed the valves in, measure/test valve springs, then build the heads up, flow test the heads, strip heads and port, then re-build heads, and flow test (repeat as required)shim the springs, gap piston rings, NOW you can start to build the engine........
This is of course after much time spent with the customer, discussing requirements, options, and budget. Spec'ing the engine, and internals, ECU, mapping, turbo, boost control system , fuel system, intercooler, exhaust, additional parts, and drivetrain.
Ordering all the parts, and relying on the manufacturers/suppiers to deliver all the parts, correctly, and on time.
Adam has been very unlucky. Custom parts were incorrectly manufactured/supplied. He's suffered delays, let downs, and then, just when the engine was nigh on built, MY gudgeon pin snapped !!!!
Since our pistons came from the same supplier/manufacturer, I told Adam to halt his engine build, until the problem had been identified. Investigation identified the pins to be the problem, and guess who had the same spec' as me !!!!!!
What also needs to be taken into account, is that whilst many similar spec' engines have been built in the US, and Aus', I'm not aware of anyone else having done it in the UK.
It's VERY different from building a 2.lt, where most parts can be bought "off the shelf". But then it depends on what you want....
Mark.
Ok, let's assume all the parts were sitting there, 3 days to prepare/measure/modify/machine the block, do a dummy engine build, measure all the oil clearances, and tolerances, deck the pistons, check compression ratio, strip engine, modify rods, crank, pistons as required, dummy build engine, re-check oil clearances, and tolerances, strip engine, balance rods, pistons, crank, flywheel, clutch cover, and front pulley, check re-profiled cams, replace valve guides, seats, seals, bed the valves in, measure/test valve springs, then build the heads up, flow test the heads, strip heads and port, then re-build heads, and flow test (repeat as required)shim the springs, gap piston rings, NOW you can start to build the engine........
This is of course after much time spent with the customer, discussing requirements, options, and budget. Spec'ing the engine, and internals, ECU, mapping, turbo, boost control system , fuel system, intercooler, exhaust, additional parts, and drivetrain.
Ordering all the parts, and relying on the manufacturers/suppiers to deliver all the parts, correctly, and on time.
Adam has been very unlucky. Custom parts were incorrectly manufactured/supplied. He's suffered delays, let downs, and then, just when the engine was nigh on built, MY gudgeon pin snapped !!!!
Since our pistons came from the same supplier/manufacturer, I told Adam to halt his engine build, until the problem had been identified. Investigation identified the pins to be the problem, and guess who had the same spec' as me !!!!!!
What also needs to be taken into account, is that whilst many similar spec' engines have been built in the US, and Aus', I'm not aware of anyone else having done it in the UK.
It's VERY different from building a 2.lt, where most parts can be bought "off the shelf". But then it depends on what you want....
Mark.
24 November 2002, 10:31 AM
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Just thinking about the terminal speeds at Elvington.
Harvey with 420ish got 110mph
Trout with 340ish got 103mph (very consistent this - although as I was not planning to run - had full tank of fuel and full water tank which is a 60kg cost)
Rum with 300 (Sti PPP) got 99mph (also very consistent- with practice)
That was all on the same day.
However - Trouts car, as completely standard, also got 103mph at Santa Pod....car has proven to improved its power by at least 50 if not 70bhp...
...so was Elvington particularly slow on the day question? It was very wet, so drag would have been a considerable issue on the top speed - or am I wrong?
Trout
[Edited by Trout - 11/24/2002 10:33:27 AM]
Harvey with 420ish got 110mph
Trout with 340ish got 103mph (very consistent this - although as I was not planning to run - had full tank of fuel and full water tank which is a 60kg cost)
Rum with 300 (Sti PPP) got 99mph (also very consistent- with practice
)That was all on the same day.
However - Trouts car, as completely standard, also got 103mph at Santa Pod....car has proven to improved its power by at least 50 if not 70bhp...
...so was Elvington particularly slow on the day question? It was very wet, so drag would have been a considerable issue on the top speed - or am I wrong?
Trout
[Edited by Trout - 11/24/2002 10:33:27 AM]
24 November 2002, 01:07 PM
#160
errrr no, it was WET
But agree with you about distance Come on David which was it 500m or a quarter? 103 over 500 seems low... I was getting 117 and that was with a crap start! Got bang on 100 at SPOD over the quarter when he car was standard!
[Edited by Tim W - 11/24/2002 1:15:05 PM]
But agree with you about distance
Come on David which was it 500m or a quarter? 103 over 500 seems low... I was getting 117 and that was with a crap start! Got bang on 100 at SPOD over the quarter when he car was standard![Edited by Tim W - 11/24/2002 1:15:05 PM]
24 November 2002, 01:23 PM
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tim, the point has been made that th crap start and poor gear changes and lact of traction dont make a massive amount of difference to trap speed, as the rate of acceleration at the point when the line is crossed is so much lower that earlier on losses dont factor as much.
ie. if you are at the point where you have reached the speed that it takes 50m to gain 2mph, the fact that you reacheed this speed that much closer to the trap due to poor technique doesnt really matter.
This of course is not the case n cars which have so much grunt that they are still pulling at the line.
They should really have a double light gate at the speed trap and measure acceleration too.
the big power cars can still put on massive acceleration even at 120+ mph, so in these cars, 400m is not enough to exhaust their accelrative capabilities and so the start, gear changes and traction conditions are more important.
ie. if you are at the point where you have reached the speed that it takes 50m to gain 2mph, the fact that you reacheed this speed that much closer to the trap due to poor technique doesnt really matter.
This of course is not the case n cars which have so much grunt that they are still pulling at the line.
They should really have a double light gate at the speed trap and measure acceleration too.
the big power cars can still put on massive acceleration even at 120+ mph, so in these cars, 400m is not enough to exhaust their accelrative capabilities and so the start, gear changes and traction conditions are more important.
24 November 2002, 02:42 PM
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Trout,
You recorded 103mph at Santa Pod when your car was standard, which is pretty much spot on. You've now increased power by 20-25% so one would expect your car to be significantly quicker than what it was. The Elvington trap speeds do not show this to be the case so either your power hasn't changed and you've been ripped off, or their was something 'wrong' at Elvington on that day. Now I've seen your car on track and would agree with you as to its rough BHP increase, so I don't think you've been stitched up...
When looked at in context those 3 terminal speeds do match the BHP differences reasonably well, Harvey would certainly need at around 50bhp more than you to achieve that differential. But they are all way down on what can be reasonably expected with those power figures. I presume by very wet you mean their was LOTS of standing water? most strips will not allow you to run if thats the case, but that would go some way to explaining the figures.
I've never been to Elvington so cannot comment on its set-up, whats it like? Any wierd gravitational shifts we should know about?
Does anyone know the wieghts of the Rigoli/Easy Street/CVP cars?
You recorded 103mph at Santa Pod when your car was standard, which is pretty much spot on. You've now increased power by 20-25% so one would expect your car to be significantly quicker than what it was. The Elvington trap speeds do not show this to be the case so either your power hasn't changed and you've been ripped off, or their was something 'wrong' at Elvington on that day. Now I've seen your car on track and would agree with you as to its rough BHP increase, so I don't think you've been stitched up...
When looked at in context those 3 terminal speeds do match the BHP differences reasonably well, Harvey would certainly need at around 50bhp more than you to achieve that differential. But they are all way down on what can be reasonably expected with those power figures. I presume by very wet you mean their was LOTS of standing water? most strips will not allow you to run if thats the case, but that would go some way to explaining the figures.
I've never been to Elvington so cannot comment on its set-up, whats it like? Any wierd gravitational shifts we should know about?
Does anyone know the wieghts of the Rigoli/Easy Street/CVP cars?
24 November 2002, 06:18 PM
#164
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Perhaps I can throw a few pebbles in the pond (nothing new there then )
The terminal speeds are relative to the weight of the car and the power produced however the power produced is actually the average power produced over the run.
It is possible to fit a FMIC and bigger turbo which will give you, say 40bhp more but that combination will result in more lag between gears than the original little turbo and TMIC. If you calculate the 'average' power produced over the 1/4 mile then it can actually be lower <shock-horror>
Before you all say "my car has no more lag" can I politely say Bollocks, show me proof !
I have data logged this on 3 cars now, one of which was my own, and they all produced more power with either the bigger turbo and/or FMIC BUT, over 1/4 mile actually went slower !!!
This could be the case with Harveys ?? My own car is now 2mph slower over the 1/4 despite the fact I have 40bhp more now than when I ran 11.87 @ 118
Before anyone says 'lack of torque' it's not that. I have gained a few lb-ft and the boost now comes in even earlier.
(nothing new there then )The terminal speeds are relative to the weight of the car and the power produced however the power produced is actually the average power produced over the run.
It is possible to fit a FMIC and bigger turbo which will give you, say 40bhp more but that combination will result in more lag between gears than the original little turbo and TMIC. If you calculate the 'average' power produced over the 1/4 mile then it can actually be lower <shock-horror>
Before you all say "my car has no more lag" can I politely say Bollocks, show me proof !
I have data logged this on 3 cars now, one of which was my own, and they all produced more power with either the bigger turbo and/or FMIC BUT, over 1/4 mile actually went slower !!!
This could be the case with Harveys ?? My own car is now 2mph slower over the 1/4 despite the fact I have 40bhp more now than when I ran 11.87 @ 118
Before anyone says 'lack of torque' it's not that. I have gained a few lb-ft and the boost now comes in even earlier.
24 November 2002, 07:51 PM
#165
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Andy,
interesting that you have empiracal data on this - it is a good point.
However - lets compare it on my own car.
Spod data suggest a 1/4m of 102/3 mph at the trap, using Vf28 with cat in place....now this would give a peak torque at around 4100-4300 as with the cat in place, I would peak boost at around 4000rpm.
Current car gives peak boost at around 4100, catless but bigger and laggier, peak torque is around 4300-4400rpm.
However, and this is a big however, on the drag strip the car never sees 4000rpm - or even close - it is all between 5500 and 7500rpm.
So, laggier, well barely compared to standard, so don't think this is the case.
Hypoluxa - well on track at Bedford say - even before recent mods, car was very quick compared to standard P1s and Stis - and I specifically mean straight line - there are certainly better drivers out there. And I haven't been ripped off - as most the tuning has been done by myself.
Conclusion - hard to draw - easy conclusion is that car is much less powerful than it feels/measures or is compared to standard....OR....Elvington was slow that day.
The track is not smooth like Spod, airfield concrete, with joins, and it was covered in standing water. How much difference this would make it hard to day - 5% - 10% who knows.
Also, compared to Sti 7 PPP - with the magic 300bhp from Prodrive, car was easily quicker....and Harveys was easily quicker than mine (well it was on one run) my times were more consistent due to Harveys right foot wastegate control
Trout
interesting that you have empiracal data on this - it is a good point.
However - lets compare it on my own car.
Spod data suggest a 1/4m of 102/3 mph at the trap, using Vf28 with cat in place....now this would give a peak torque at around 4100-4300 as with the cat in place, I would peak boost at around 4000rpm.
Current car gives peak boost at around 4100, catless but bigger and laggier, peak torque is around 4300-4400rpm.
However, and this is a big however, on the drag strip the car never sees 4000rpm - or even close - it is all between 5500 and 7500rpm.
So, laggier, well barely compared to standard, so don't think this is the case.
Hypoluxa - well on track at Bedford say - even before recent mods, car was very quick compared to standard P1s and Stis - and I specifically mean straight line - there are certainly better drivers out there. And I haven't been ripped off - as most the tuning has been done by myself.
Conclusion - hard to draw - easy conclusion is that car is much less powerful than it feels/measures or is compared to standard....OR....Elvington was slow that day.
The track is not smooth like Spod, airfield concrete, with joins, and it was covered in standing water. How much difference this would make it hard to day - 5% - 10% who knows.
Also, compared to Sti 7 PPP - with the magic 300bhp from Prodrive, car was easily quicker....and Harveys was easily quicker than mine (well it was on one run) my times were more consistent due to Harveys right foot wastegate control
Trout
24 November 2002, 09:18 PM
#166
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"And I haven't been ripped off - as most the tuning has been done by myself."
And this would be called "SELF ABUSE" !!!
Mark.
And this would be called "SELF ABUSE" !!!
Mark.
25 November 2002, 07:03 AM
#167
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Lol @ Mark
Trout, the lag I was referring to was the slight delay to reach full boost again after a gearshift. This can be due to the turbo loosing inertia and re-spooling and/or the FMIC route filling up again after being 'dumped'. I am only talking 0.3 of a second, barely perceptable to the driver. It is however noticable on a data log. Take this 0.3 secs x 3 gearshifts and you have lost power for 7.5% of your 1/4m power run. This equates to 30 bhp on a 400 bhp car.
Andy
Trout, the lag I was referring to was the slight delay to reach full boost again after a gearshift. This can be due to the turbo loosing inertia and re-spooling and/or the FMIC route filling up again after being 'dumped'. I am only talking 0.3 of a second, barely perceptable to the driver. It is however noticable on a data log. Take this 0.3 secs x 3 gearshifts and you have lost power for 7.5% of your 1/4m power run. This equates to 30 bhp on a 400 bhp car.
Andy
25 November 2002, 08:33 PM
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Andy,
ok, fair challenge.
Just another thought - even tho it was very wet, and I was getting wheelspin all the way through first gear - my ETs were consistently 0.5s quicker than anything I ever achieved at SPOD - and I am sure if it had been dry would have been much better again.
Just food for thought that maybe Elvington can only be referenced 'on the day'.
I reckon we should still try and get all the cars together in the Spring and do an Elvington - will try and get dates and post them up.
Maybe a Saturday Well Lane to calibrate all the cars - and then Elvington on the Sunday. Make it North v South to get a bit of juice in it
Trout
ok, fair challenge.
Just another thought - even tho it was very wet, and I was getting wheelspin all the way through first gear - my ETs were consistently 0.5s quicker than anything I ever achieved at SPOD - and I am sure if it had been dry would have been much better again.
Just food for thought that maybe Elvington can only be referenced 'on the day'.
I reckon we should still try and get all the cars together in the Spring and do an Elvington - will try and get dates and post them up.
Maybe a Saturday Well Lane to calibrate all the cars - and then Elvington on the Sunday. Make it North v South to get a bit of juice in it
Trout
25 November 2002, 08:43 PM
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Excellent Idea Trout I'd be up for that, not just straight line stuff though, need the twisty bit as well
I had thought of something similar for inviting you lot up hereie Star performance Saturday / Knockhill trackday Sunday. John S gets some stunning deals from Knockhill, £50 for 4 hours is not uncommon ! Open pit lane for as much track action as you can handle
Andy
I'd be up for that, not just straight line stuff though, need the twisty bit as well I had thought of something similar for inviting you lot up here
ie Star performance Saturday / Knockhill trackday Sunday. John S gets some stunning deals from Knockhill, £50 for 4 hours is not uncommon ! Open pit lane for as much track action as you can handle Andy
25 November 2002, 10:12 PM
#172
Only just noticed this thread..
sounds good andy - why not make it on the monday after well lane4? since I am over in england then!!
also, re: http://www.junauto.co.jp/democar/gc8/gc8-movie.html - did anyone notice that the scoop is on backwards?
[Edited by ChristianR - 11/25/2002 10:28:18 PM]
sounds good andy - why not make it on the monday after well lane4?
since I am over in england then!!also, re: http://www.junauto.co.jp/democar/gc8/gc8-movie.html - did anyone notice that the scoop is on backwards?
[Edited by ChristianR - 11/25/2002 10:28:18 PM]
26 November 2002, 07:49 AM
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someone wrote to me requesting pictures of my engine build and I said I would send them from home, but have since lost their email address.
All I remember is that I think his name was tony, and he was some kind of engineer. can he email me again please?
All I remember is that I think his name was tony, and he was some kind of engineer. can he email me again please?
26 November 2002, 11:50 AM
#174
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well it looks like I will not be able to insure the car beyond 350 bhp!
so nos nova may end being right.
Engine may well be capable of more if I were allowed, but my car will only ever be 350bhp max!
so nos nova may end being right.
Engine may well be capable of more if I were allowed, but my car will only ever be 350bhp max!
26 November 2002, 02:03 PM
#177
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Bring it on.
Adam.. that would be Anthony Tonkin.. (ToneLoc)
Please can I have a look too?
David
Adam.. that would be Anthony Tonkin.. (ToneLoc)
Please can I have a look too?
David
26 November 2002, 02:41 PM
#179
Andy,
we do indeed get some good deals from Knockhill from time to time. We are actually planning a "bigger" event during the summer to entice a few people up north.
Current thinking is arrive Thursday night, stay in nice hotel, B&B or Travel Inns etc, depending on budget.
Friday - some people go to Star Performance for rolling road tests, set-up etc, others can come along to watch, or do some scenic driving/treasure hunt etc.
Friday evening - Arrival of those who couldn't spare the extra day off work. No doubt a few beers will be consumed.
Saturday - event at Knockhill probably during the morning. A 4 hour open pit lane session will probably be enough for everyone.
Saturday afternoon - head off to the West Coast for some driving on the best roads in the UK. Stays light until after 11pm during summer, and the roads are very quiet. Could use a combination of camping (for those who are into that sort of thing) or a nice hotel. Have an outdoors BBQ/party thing with even more alcohol (weather permitting of course).
Sunday morning. Lazy start, before exploring some more good roads, and heading back towards either Edinburgh (outdoor track) or Glasgow for an afternoon karting event, whilst other halves go shopping etc.
Option to head home on the Sunday, or stay for another night before heading home again.
A nice long weekend with plenty of interesting activities, driving, socialising etc.
Thinking of about early June , when the weather is nice, and the roads aren't full of camper vans etc., and crucially before midgie season starts!
John
we do indeed get some good deals from Knockhill from time to time. We are actually planning a "bigger" event during the summer to entice a few people up north.
Current thinking is arrive Thursday night, stay in nice hotel, B&B or Travel Inns etc, depending on budget.
Friday - some people go to Star Performance for rolling road tests, set-up etc, others can come along to watch, or do some scenic driving/treasure hunt etc.
Friday evening - Arrival of those who couldn't spare the extra day off work. No doubt a few beers will be consumed.
Saturday - event at Knockhill probably during the morning. A 4 hour open pit lane session will probably be enough for everyone.
Saturday afternoon - head off to the West Coast for some driving on the best roads in the UK. Stays light until after 11pm during summer, and the roads are very quiet. Could use a combination of camping (for those who are into that sort of thing) or a nice hotel. Have an outdoors BBQ/party thing with even more alcohol (weather permitting of course).
Sunday morning. Lazy start, before exploring some more good roads, and heading back towards either Edinburgh (outdoor track) or Glasgow for an afternoon karting event, whilst other halves go shopping etc.
Option to head home on the Sunday, or stay for another night before heading home again.
A nice long weekend with plenty of interesting activities, driving, socialising etc.
Thinking of about early June , when the weather is nice, and the roads aren't full of camper vans etc., and crucially before midgie season starts!
John
26 November 2002, 02:52 PM
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John,
Great idea, but could you also find out about a full day at the track.
I'm sure there'll be a few of us southerners travling up for a long weekend !!!!!
Mark.
Great idea, but could you also find out about a full day at the track.
I'm sure there'll be a few of us southerners travling up for a long weekend !!!!!
Mark.