steve G MAN

havent you heard of dont belive everything you read in the papers

merkin

Haven't you read my posts??

That is exactly what I am saying

steve G MAN

well ya see p lewis might have read his story in the sun you might have read yours in the mirror thats what im saying lol

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

G-Man: You're the man! LOL: Alcazar

pslewis

Gerkin - I can spout what I like

Thats why we have a free country - if you dont like it may I respectfully suggest you find a thread about newspapers telling the truth - or better still, START ONE!!

The propoganda is FINE by me - dont tell me the firemen arent using it too??? That WREN gets my FULL support!! She is doing a job alien to her BUT STILL does it!! RESPECT!!

As for the Firemen, well, what can I say that hasnt already been?

SACK EM ALL!!!

Pete

steve G MAN

im with you p lewis the rack **** gets my vote

merkin

LOL at your Daily Mail mentality

I happen to partially agree with your stance on the firefighters, I think they should stop tossing about and do the job, or leave the service if they don't like the pay.
And I also think out armed services are doing a fine job with what resources they have.

BUT I hate to see people spouting crap regurgitated from the tabloids on a daily basis. When and if it comes to the army going into a towering inferno and rescuing people,I will be the first to offer them praise and respect (which i already have for them)
NOT for something that is blown out of all proportion and latched onto to sell papers.

As you say, it's a free country.
Just a shame your mind seems to be imprisoned by whatever the tabloids tell you to believe on that day.

steve G MAN

ive got to admit this post has been great loads of imput

pslewis

Gerkin - my mind imprisoned by the tabloids?? I dont read them at all actually - its all my OWN thoughts thanks.

I wouldn't like to have my head imprisoned by my 4rse as you so clearly do!!

Pete

merkin

well your mouth has certainly been imprisoned by what comes out of your ****

pslewis

Sorry - that was MY joke, find your own - or cant you??

pete

merkin

no, your joke was actually about having my head imprisoned by my ****, which as far as i know bears no relation to your (or my perceived) atrocious case of verbal diarrhea

pslewis

???? EH ????

Is that IT talk??

Pete

pslewis

BTW watch the BBC news tonight - a sound man falls off the wall behind Blair!!!!

Pete

[Edited by pslewis - 11/26/2002 4:49:12 PM]

merkin

LOL, definitely not I.T talk pete, i can't even programme my video recorder

drumsterphil

iTrader: (1)

My 2p's worth -

Why say thanks to the Army?! I thought that when they joined the armed forces they swore an oath (or whatever) to protect this country. Well, I see that they are doing the job they signed up for, even if it's with a hose in their hands and not a gun!

PML - perhaps you should be pissed off with those that still give the firefighters a right to strike. Free country as far as I was aware and they have the right (and they are exercising it).

Whether it's right or wrong is dependant on a person's moral opinion of this strike but they ARE acting legally. I don't necessarily agree with the strike and the sooner some agreement is sorted the better IMO.

DP.

Sheepsplitter

pslewis: Now that the pay rise is actually going to require the goverment to reduce the number of fire fighters, i.e culling of jobs, do you stand by them?

I seem to remember you said that you supported the miners because jobs were on the line. Well now jobs are on the line as Tony Blur and Fat Boy have said in public today. As they see it, shrinking the work force is the ONLY way of increasing salarys beyond 4% for the rest of them.

Just curious, what's your stance now?

SiDHEaD

well then they've shot themselves in the foot by DEMANDING this ludicrous pay rise for a part time job. Good.

They only need get another job if they want more money. If they are there to save lives and because they like the job they will get on with it.

pslewis

Sh1tspitter - I most certainly do NOT support them losing jobs - we have seen the brave men and women in antique wagons coping very well thank you with 19,000 of them!!

How can I argue that we need 50,000 firemen to do the same job with better equipment??? - they have not only shot themselves in the foot .............. the foot, ankle, leg and thighs have been blown off completely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Firemen, living proof that mental patients do, indeed, have sex!!

Pete

Sheepsplitter

pslewis: And you don't think there was any 'excess' labour in the pits then? I think you talk any way the wind blows. You pretend one minute to be a working class supporter, the next you are slagging off the people you claim to support.

pslewis

No WRONG AGAIN!!!

Had they been striking for their jobs I would have supported them 100% - they were NOT, they wanted a greedy 40% increase in pay when 6 months earlier they were happy as sand boys to earn what they were earning for a part-time job.

Of course, what we NOW know is an eye opener isnt it?? I would say they are at LEAST 25,000 overstaffed.

Their choice now, lose jobs to pay for those who remain OR accept 4% and then get paid what they save through pulling themselves into the year 1950 - YES 1950!!!! Because all their easy perks go back to 1947!!!!

Pete

unclebuck

as I said:

The FBU - which voted for strike action after its demands for a 40% pay rise were dismissed are having to come to terms with the consequences of their badly thought out actions.

The army are currently illustrating how the future fire service will operate – flexibly. Even though they are far fewer in number and have oudated equipment and apparently no training they are coping well. The truth is coming out now. The FF really are going to regret Gilchrilst leading them into this stupid strike adventure.

There will be more black and other minorities recruited – no more closed shop and there will be 10,000 redundancies when the modernisation begins. Apparently 20% of firefighters due to retire within three years and they won’t be replaced (or missed).

If only they had kept their heads down and their mouths shut their cushy little lifestyle might have continued for a while longer, but not now. They’ve blown it forever.

Have a nice life guys…

Sheepsplitter

pslewis: Nobody thought that 40% was achievable.
They set that as a starting point for negotiation.
It's now down to 16% and the government can't decide if it's on the table or not.
The government have acted like a bunch of disjointed bafoons during this strike.

mutant_matt

Sheep,

Whilst I would agree with you in general that the "government have acted like a bunch of disjointed bafoons during this strike", IIRC, the 16% "deal" that was reached (was it last Thursday night?) was with no modernisation agreements. The government stated that they would accept 16% if modernisation was included. It wasn't so the deal was not on. Personally, I think 16% with modernisation is too generous and in times when private sector jobs are not secure, and most people are lucky to either keep their jobs, not get a pay rise or if they're really lucky, get a couple of percent for inflation, the Firemen have shown just how out of touch they are.

I won't pretend to know much of the detail but I disagree in principle with strikes, and personally see it as a lack of respect for themselves that they can lower themselves to the point where they want to strike. I've had crappy, low paid jobs which I hated and I stuck them out until I found something better. Other public sector workers are not paid well but (most) of them don't strike. If they don't like it, they should get another job like the rest of us have to do!!

One other thing - three non tabloid sourced (I don't read tabloids) facts:

1. A friend @ work has a good friend in the London Fire Service. He admits that he doesn't do much work and didn't attend a single fire in his first nine months in the service He also admits that getting paid to sleep nights is fantastic!!

2. Another friend is a builder and he tells me that a very large proportion of the customers at Builders Merchants are Firemen working their "second" jobs and that it's a well known fact that a large proportion of Firemen are builders too.

3. My Brother in Law tried to get into the Fire Service when he left the Army. His application was successful but the waiting list was over a year long so he gave up. This is simple supply and demand. If there is that much demand to get into it, it will drive the cost (pay) down, it's simple economics.

If they have time to have a second job they I can't see why they deserve any more pay, let alone 4%, 16% or any other increase, especially when they refuse to modernise. That's also something I don't get. I do what I'm told at work (mostly ), and if my company "modernises", I don't get much of a say, I do it because that's my job - if I don't like it, I can leave, it's my choice. I negotiate a pay rise each year (by myself without anybody else's help), the last two years have been virtually nil due to the current market but that's life, and that's part and parcel of working.

Why can't they act in a similarly professional and grown up fashion like the private sector has to? How come strikes are even legal? If most of us decided to strike, the P45 would be in the post before you know it!!!!

All just IMHO of course

Matt

steve G MAN

fantastic post matt