barge

If you pull a blade you had better be ready & prepared to use it.

If you do get in a fight, cheat or do anything that makes you come out on top, there are no rules, if there is a group of them dont fight them all, unless your are bruce lee, just attack one & dont let up.

DaveR

the ruling on knives for whoever asked (Luke I think) is this:

it's illegal if the blade is fixed/fixable (ie. doesn't fold automatically like a traditional penknife), and is 3.5 inches or over.

although personally I am firmly of the belief despite being a martial artist myself (Judo) that you are best off legging it. If you have to fight then the last thing you should do is start waving a weapon around as it is likely to be stuck up your ar$e in very short order

FERRARINUTTER

Hairspray and a lighter, flames a plenty
Talc n Powder, to throw in the eyes or lemon juice
Big set of keys in your fist
Magnalite torch pref. 12 inch (vibrating) version
Pop up umbrella
Stilleto heels
Winkle pickers.........

Mr evolution

How about not going to dangerous places at night alone. Not getting so drunk you are an easy target and generally using a bit of common sense and keeping your wits about you. This has worked fine for me for years and if you are out in your car you have a weapon far more dangerous than a knife or bat.

Maz-old

This is the state of the law. End of arguments.

An item is offensive if:

(a) It is offensive per se - i.e. actually a weapon by definition and design (a truncheon, nunchaku, sai etc); or
(b) It is not offensive per se, but is adapted to be offensive (classic example wood with nails in it at one end); or
(c) A normal item is intended to be used for an offensive purpose (baseball bat in a fight).


You can carry an offensive weapon if you have a reasonable excuse or a lawful purpose.

Lawful purpose

Only if you are a police officer, soldier etc (NOT NIGHTCLUB BOUNCER - although I won a case on that point but I still think the Judge was wrong to rule in my favour - happy ot discuss if anyone wants to know). No others really work.

Reasonable Excuse

Self Defence IF IT IS AN IMMEDIATE THREAT. NOT ANTICIPATED, BUT IMMEDIATE.

Therefore, if the police stop you with a baseball bat in your car and you say it is for self defence - YOU ARE GUILTY AS YOU HAVE THE (FUTURE) INTENT TO USE IT OFFENSIVELY IF YOU ARE ATTACKED.

Again, if you say nothing to the police or give them another excuse such as you were using it recently for a lawful purpose (cricket, baseball etc) or that you didn't know it was in there etc you'll be fine too.

That doesn't apply to offenseive weapons per se as they are offensive already and no intent is required, just knowledge that you had them.

A car is a public place under the law, unless it is in a garage.

Finally, if you are caught, call me and I'll make sure that you have a decent barrister. A jury might acquit out of sympathy but that's a tough call.

Don't carry them is my advice unless you think you might get attacked that night and have good reason to believe that.

Huxley

Beretta 12g but dont tell anyone And trace ace cartridge just so you can see the flare on there ***


Huxley

22BUK

Thanks Maz for that explanation of offensive weapons.
But what about defensive weapons?

You're implying that it is the government's responsibility (in the form of the Police) to look after each of its' subjects and that the subjects are not allowed to defend themselves. Therefore, if a person is damaged by a third party surely that person may sue the police/government for not protecting him?

And finally, when making a citizen's arrest, is it permissible to use any sort of weapon?

[Edited by 22BUK - 11/29/2002 6:02:54 PM]

Taff107

Mice, You may do re-enactments but I assure you, If you get caught at say, 11 o'clock on a saturday night with pikes, crossbows, trebuchets, nunchucks or anything like that, you will get nicked!

Taff107

22B, You cannot use any weapon - "Minimum amount of force necessary"?

Maz-old

I am implying exactly that. Article 1 of the ECHR makes it incumbent upon the government to look after its subjects and ensure the minimum rights guaranteed by the Convention are met. The parents (named Hill) of one of the victims of the Yorkshire ripper sued the Yorkshire constabulary years ago for failing to detect crime and the decision went against them so I suspect suing the police will get you nowhere.

You can use a weapon in self-defence if the threat is immediate OR you pick up the weapon in order to defend yourself but it was not yours at the time.

Carrying a weapon to prevent an attack that MIGHT happen is an offence because you have the necessary intent to cause harm required by the Legislation. You will cause harm if you are attacked. Sounds a bit circular but it is about future intent not actual likely happenstance.

If someone attacked me tonight and told me they would do the same tomorrow and I carried a baseball bat to protect myself, that MIGHT be enough. If somebody attacked me in the street and I had a baseball bat in the car from playing baseball and then used it, that would also be a defence. I hope you can see the distinction.

The Act is there to prevent people carrying 'offensive' items (and by that I include defensive items) in the street and claiming that they were expecting attacks. In fact, it is to prevent people like us carrying items in cars on the basis that we might be attacked and then using them in a situation (e.g. road rage) that did not warrant it. It is safer for society simply not to have weapons at all.

I don't necessarily agree or disagree - that's not my job. My job is to tell you the state of the law such as it is.

Mice_Elf

Been there, done that.

6 of us have walked into Burger King fully armoured once because we were hungry and there wasn't time to dis-armour, womble into town, munch, get back, get re-armoured and start the next fight.

We've also been stopped carrying stuff back after a fight, late at night.

The cars have been stopped on the side of the road - I think the 12 foot pikes strapped to the top were a starting point...

We went to France once in a coach, the luggage area of which was crammed to bursting with various types of weaponry...

In all the cases we either didn't get stopped at all, or just got waved on...

shunty

nice one mice...that must have been a right sight

shunty