Bedford Today
30 November 2002, 08:19 PM
#61
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Controlled grass-tracking.....OK, I'll buy that....
To quote Woody in Toy Story
'That's not flying, it's crashing with style'
Jeff
[Edited by Jeff Wiltshire - 11/30/2002 8:22:21 PM]
To quote Woody in Toy Story
'That's not flying, it's crashing with style'
Jeff
[Edited by Jeff Wiltshire - 11/30/2002 8:22:21 PM]
30 November 2002, 08:28 PM
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PS. As normal whenever I see Gossy driving, he is either showing off his driving IN-ability, or he needs to take some track etiquette lessons. This also applies for the road, having seen what he's like. 
Dan
Dan
30 November 2002, 08:54 PM
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Not a great day.
Still not sure how the car managed to fail the noise test by such a margin.I cannot believe I was the only STi7 running a de-cat system.
Managed to get on track for 5 laps after being told to loud only to be warned 3 times by a very freindly marshal that the car was tripping the meters at all three points.
Then did one lap not excedding 5000rpm and that seemed to help,unfortunately then did one at full chat and was black flagged
for the rest of the day.
I understand what the guys from Palmersport say about the sound regs and that it applies to all tracks,but was at Brands the week before and had no complaints.
I have two options either get rid of the car or don't visit Bedford again, hard choice!
Grant
D
Still not sure how the car managed to fail the noise test by such a margin.I cannot believe I was the only STi7 running a de-cat system.
Managed to get on track for 5 laps after being told to loud only to be warned 3 times by a very freindly marshal that the car was tripping the meters at all three points.
Then did one lap not excedding 5000rpm and that seemed to help,unfortunately then did one at full chat and was black flagged
for the rest of the day.
I understand what the guys from Palmersport say about the sound regs and that it applies to all tracks,but was at Brands the week before and had no complaints.
I have two options either get rid of the car or don't visit Bedford again, hard choice!
Grant
D
30 November 2002, 09:04 PM
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Grant it was nothing short of a huge ****-up [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] not a hard choice really - don't go to Bedford again 
[Edited by Redkop - 11/30/2002 9:06:53 PM]
[Edited by Redkop - 11/30/2002 9:06:53 PM]
30 November 2002, 09:05 PM
#68
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Well and truly pi55ed off today![img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] Had been really looking forward to this track day and spent this last week trying to get my car finished and back on the road (after my accident a few weeks ago) Spent over 250 quid on track day and insurance etc. and what happens???...got told my car was too loud at 85.9 dB!
Website clearly states "Drive by: 87.5dB(A) at a minimum of 60mph measured 20 meters from the centre line of the vehicle accelerating maximally" However they decided to drop the limit to 85dB without warning! [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
I asked for the car to be tested again and this time it passed, but after three laps was black flagged because it was too loud! My green sticker was ripped off and I was told to go home! [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
Thanks to Tony G for giving us rejectees a few laps in his car as passengers.
Never had this problem before with other tracks - so won't be bothering with Bedford again.
mikee
[Edited by mikeesingh - 11/30/2002 9:07:09 PM]
Website clearly states "Drive by: 87.5dB(A) at a minimum of 60mph measured 20 meters from the centre line of the vehicle accelerating maximally" However they decided to drop the limit to 85dB without warning! [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
I asked for the car to be tested again and this time it passed, but after three laps was black flagged because it was too loud! My green sticker was ripped off and I was told to go home! [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
Thanks to Tony G for giving us rejectees a few laps in his car as passengers.
Never had this problem before with other tracks - so won't be bothering with Bedford again.
mikee
[Edited by mikeesingh - 11/30/2002 9:07:09 PM]
30 November 2002, 09:33 PM
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Jeff,
We've got a huge silencer, a cat and a smaller silencer - it's 92db @ 5k rpm - that's SVA tested.
Was BS.
Do the helicoptors have "silent mode" ala Blue Thunder?
5 hrs travelling, a LOT of money and less than 2 laps.
87.5db FFS - so boggo std production cars only then eh?
I think I need to have a word with JP
One thing I did notice though......
The way the Bedford marshalls really didn't seem to give a **** about what was going on........
We've got a huge silencer, a cat and a smaller silencer - it's 92db @ 5k rpm - that's SVA tested.
Was BS.
Do the helicoptors have "silent mode" ala Blue Thunder?
5 hrs travelling, a LOT of money and less than 2 laps.
87.5db FFS - so boggo std production cars only then eh?
I think I need to have a word with JP
One thing I did notice though......
The way the Bedford marshalls really didn't seem to give a **** about what was going on........
30 November 2002, 09:34 PM
#71
What a farce . I have been on 4 previous track days there with my car in exactly the same spec and never had a problem. Today, I'm blackflagged and told to go home at about 09:30, like a load of other people.
"Palmersport spent £30m on this facility.." Shame they didn't spend a penny on planting some trees/ putting some banks up/ sound baffles at the awkward end of the track/ Financing a study of what noise can actually be heard from where to shut up the busy bodies. Good point about the helicopter, how quiet is that - 2 of them actually, not to mention the Biplane, and the glider towplanes that came over several times.
I was told by the girl running the day that the council had changed the law (in the last 8 weeks?), whereas once they closed the track nearer the village, everything was suddenly hunky dory. Oh,and apparently, "it's only the subaru's that have this problem as well anyway". Strange, I recall several pi55ed off drivers of other makes, never mind Craig and Ian's valiant effort ,having to leave.
Anyway, enough grumbling, just vote with our feet, it's a shame as it is probably one of the finest tracks in the country in it's own right, never mind just a corporate venue.
On the positive side , the usual thumbs up to Tyres Northampton ( cheers Mark, Darryl, Mike & Elvis)especially for the new exhaust system you fitted for me, straight from the works subaru team you said, I kept trying to start the car with the engine running it was so quiet. Possibly first ever exhaust system on a P1 consisting of SS DP and Centre section, with a rattly little twin pipe standard BB from possibly a Impreza sport on the back. Christ knows what it did to my fuelling apart from strangling it. I probably got about 10 speeding tickets on the way back from Northampton because it was so quiet I kept finding myself doing warp speeds before i knew it.
Nice slippery track, with Gossy taking primary honours for repeated looning ( John Felstead's balletic slides being far too much in control to qualify). Who did all the cones? Gossy killed at least 15 of them at the start of the last straight before pit entrance whilst having a little joust with the Fat Mobile. Not only did he clatter this lot all over the track but he hit a huge pile of cement dust or something and dissapeared into a white cloud. I though that he had blown his engine, but no there he was beyond it sideways with Ian Sadler holding on for dear life in the passenger seat.
Honourable mentions to the M3's and Don Palmer in the Noble.
Cheers to everyone I bumped into , good to see you all again and Tarquin, in the TVR, had a fun time as well, just the 2 spins including a 360 into turn 8
and brake pads literally down to the metal .
J
[Edited by Fat Boy - 1/6/2004 10:27:17 PM]
"Palmersport spent £30m on this facility.." Shame they didn't spend a penny on planting some trees/ putting some banks up/ sound baffles at the awkward end of the track/ Financing a study of what noise can actually be heard from where to shut up the busy bodies. Good point about the helicopter, how quiet is that - 2 of them actually, not to mention the Biplane, and the glider towplanes that came over several times.
I was told by the girl running the day that the council had changed the law (in the last 8 weeks?), whereas once they closed the track nearer the village, everything was suddenly hunky dory. Oh,and apparently, "it's only the subaru's that have this problem as well anyway". Strange, I recall several pi55ed off drivers of other makes, never mind Craig and Ian's valiant effort ,having to leave.
Anyway, enough grumbling, just vote with our feet, it's a shame as it is probably one of the finest tracks in the country in it's own right, never mind just a corporate venue.
On the positive side , the usual thumbs up to Tyres Northampton ( cheers Mark, Darryl, Mike & Elvis)especially for the new exhaust system you fitted for me, straight from the works subaru team you said
, I kept trying to start the car with the engine running it was so quiet. Possibly first ever exhaust system on a P1 consisting of SS DP and Centre section, with a rattly little twin pipe standard BB from possibly a Impreza sport on the back. Christ knows what it did to my fuelling apart from strangling it. I probably got about 10 speeding tickets on the way back from Northampton because it was so quiet I kept finding myself doing warp speeds before i knew it. Nice slippery track, with Gossy taking primary honours for repeated looning ( John Felstead's balletic slides being far too much in control to qualify). Who did all the cones? Gossy killed at least 15 of them at the start of the last straight before pit entrance whilst having a little joust with the Fat Mobile. Not only did he clatter this lot all over the track but he hit a huge pile of cement dust or something and dissapeared into a white cloud. I though that he had blown his engine, but no there he was beyond it sideways with Ian Sadler holding on for dear life in the passenger seat.
Honourable mentions to the M3's and Don Palmer in the Noble.Cheers to everyone I bumped into , good to see you all again and Tarquin, in the TVR, had a fun time as well, just the 2 spins including a 360 into turn 8
and brake pads literally down to the metal .J
[Edited by Fat Boy - 1/6/2004 10:27:17 PM]
30 November 2002, 09:35 PM
#73
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To all those that failed the noise test and were black flagged a joint voice is better than one.
It may have more clout and we may stand more of a chance of getting some or all of our money back.
The more I think about it the more it annoys me,and as Mike says the total cost is always more than just the cost of the track day.
Grant
It may have more clout and we may stand more of a chance of getting some or all of our money back.
The more I think about it the more it annoys me,and as Mike says the total cost is always more than just the cost of the track day.
Grant
30 November 2002, 09:41 PM
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Fat Boy - didn't realise you were down - why didn't you come and say hello? [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
So if the council have chaged their rules in the last last few weeks surely they should then send an amendment out to pre booked customers?
[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
still unhappy.
And wine is making me brave
So if the council have chaged their rules in the last last few weeks
surely they should then send an amendment out to pre booked customers?[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
still unhappy.
And wine is making me brave
30 November 2002, 09:45 PM
#77
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After spending 30m on the venue surely another couple of mill to sort out noise problems wouldn't be an issue.
Come to think of it - this place is an ex airfield - so surely noise blocks and bank erections (oo-er) should already be in place.
The nice pictures of concorde landing their in the hospitality suite - I bet that bugger made a real racket !!!
Ian.
Come to think of it - this place is an ex airfield - so surely noise blocks and bank erections (oo-er) should already be in place.
The nice pictures of concorde landing their in the hospitality suite - I bet that bugger made a real racket !!!
Ian.
30 November 2002, 09:46 PM
#78
Having been a kart racer, and worked to help a paticular kart club I totally sympathise with the noise issue, to an extent.
For racing kart, the limit is 102db at 1m, 45' from the exhaust, reved to half speed, which is deemed to be 8000rpm (will rev to 22k though). There never used to be any limit, then it was 104, then 103, now 102. There is also a driveby, or drive under, as the mic is suspended over the circuit.
There is a lot effort that goes into keeping the karts under the limit, and if you're black flagged at a big race weekend, you stand to loose out financially (£3.5k+ for a weekend at top level). So obviously it pays not to be over the limit. However, we get plenty of opertunity to have our noise levels checked, and due to the size there are lots of things we can do.
New (kart) exhausts are very tinny, being only 0.6mm wall thickness, so lagging with wrap and aluminium tape helps loads. Also we have to use inlet homologated boxes of a certain spec, and use an additional silencer on the end of the standard format exhaust.
Now here's the tricky part. Karting, and I guess motor racing in general is fighting a constant battle with smal minded people that don't want this sort of thing in their back yard. In fact it's been going on for years, even my dad used to race in the 60s and 70s, people used to complain.
ANd yes, when the drivers went out to the villages in question to ask if they could hear it, the residents told them it made an awful racket, but on this paticular day, they WERE racing, and there was no racket, residents had nothing to say. But where ever you go, there will be some ***** on the council, and once he gets started, they've got you over a barrel.
So, what do I think this all means? I think track day enthusiasts are going to have to start obeying the rules, or at least run in spirit with the rules. And in the mean time that will keep the problem (of residents) at bay. In the mean time, I think track day organisers are going to have to get some advice from the noise consultants at the likes of the RAC MSA. I don't see why cars that are over the racing car noise limit should be allowed to run, just because they are road legal.
BTW this doesn't mean I agree with the XTR being black flagged. I've been in the same situation, pass in the morning, fail in the afternoon. Unless the noise measurements are taken accurate and consistently then it's all just bollex. And while I'm harping on about noise. Taking the limi from 87.5 to 85db is a huge margin. In actual terms 3db difference is double the SPL (or half if 3db under). While humans register 10db as being a doubling in noise levels, a sound meter doesn't I'm afraid. So I think the Bedford management need to think before just changing rules on a whim.
I would also like to point out, that in France, everyone loves motorracing. We credit the Italians for such things, but in France, the local councils actually fund things like Kart racing circuits, and I don't mean little corporate ones, I mean big international standard venues.
I think a great deal of clarification needs to be done in terms of noise regulations, so you know what you're up against. And that includes people knowing how the measurements should be taken, so they cannot be unfairly measured.
Rant over.
Paul
[Edited by Pavlo - 11/30/2002 9:53:01 PM]
For racing kart, the limit is 102db at 1m, 45' from the exhaust, reved to half speed, which is deemed to be 8000rpm (will rev to 22k though). There never used to be any limit, then it was 104, then 103, now 102. There is also a driveby, or drive under, as the mic is suspended over the circuit.
There is a lot effort that goes into keeping the karts under the limit, and if you're black flagged at a big race weekend, you stand to loose out financially (£3.5k+ for a weekend at top level). So obviously it pays not to be over the limit. However, we get plenty of opertunity to have our noise levels checked, and due to the size there are lots of things we can do.
New (kart) exhausts are very tinny, being only 0.6mm wall thickness, so lagging with wrap and aluminium tape helps loads. Also we have to use inlet homologated boxes of a certain spec, and use an additional silencer on the end of the standard format exhaust.
Now here's the tricky part. Karting, and I guess motor racing in general is fighting a constant battle with smal minded people that don't want this sort of thing in their back yard. In fact it's been going on for years, even my dad used to race in the 60s and 70s, people used to complain.
ANd yes, when the drivers went out to the villages in question to ask if they could hear it, the residents told them it made an awful racket, but on this paticular day, they WERE racing, and there was no racket, residents had nothing to say. But where ever you go, there will be some ***** on the council, and once he gets started, they've got you over a barrel.
So, what do I think this all means? I think track day enthusiasts are going to have to start obeying the rules, or at least run in spirit with the rules. And in the mean time that will keep the problem (of residents) at bay. In the mean time, I think track day organisers are going to have to get some advice from the noise consultants at the likes of the RAC MSA. I don't see why cars that are over the racing car noise limit should be allowed to run, just because they are road legal.
BTW this doesn't mean I agree with the XTR being black flagged. I've been in the same situation, pass in the morning, fail in the afternoon. Unless the noise measurements are taken accurate and consistently then it's all just bollex. And while I'm harping on about noise. Taking the limi from 87.5 to 85db is a huge margin. In actual terms 3db difference is double the SPL (or half if 3db under). While humans register 10db as being a doubling in noise levels, a sound meter doesn't I'm afraid. So I think the Bedford management need to think before just changing rules on a whim.
I would also like to point out, that in France, everyone loves motorracing. We credit the Italians for such things, but in France, the local councils actually fund things like Kart racing circuits, and I don't mean little corporate ones, I mean big international standard venues.
I think a great deal of clarification needs to be done in terms of noise regulations, so you know what you're up against. And that includes people knowing how the measurements should be taken, so they cannot be unfairly measured.
Rant over.
Paul
[Edited by Pavlo - 11/30/2002 9:53:01 PM]
30 November 2002, 09:46 PM
#79
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It was a shame we hand so little time in the morning but the afternoon was great fun.
Std M3 with suspect rear tyres made us laugh and giggle all the way round.....and round.....and round
Iain
www.litchfieldimports.co.uk
Std M3 with suspect rear tyres
made us laugh and giggle all the way round.....and round.....and round Iain
www.litchfieldimports.co.uk
30 November 2002, 09:53 PM
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I think it is a little unfair to say ALL the staff didn't care.
That nice chap Tony that checked your lids etc before exiting the pit was a bit distraught at the mess today too. He called the Italian chap to have a chat with me as I was calmly telling Tony that it was unfair to bar me - I had the same SS exhaust as many cars actually still ON the track, same as last time etc etc. This chap then drove over, chatted and joked with a mate on his mobile for ages, looked at me then looked at his walkie talkie and walked away. Couldnt even waste even 30" to talk to me. This was the same chap that passed my car on the drive by noise checks... I left the site in disgust - and Tony shrugged his shoulders!
(I am still seething, but will try not to write more and be like a stuck record...)
That nice chap Tony that checked your lids etc before exiting the pit was a bit distraught at the mess today too. He called the Italian chap to have a chat with me as I was calmly telling Tony that it was unfair to bar me - I had the same SS exhaust as many cars actually still ON the track, same as last time etc etc. This chap then drove over, chatted and joked with a mate on his mobile for ages, looked at me then looked at his walkie talkie and walked away. Couldnt even waste even 30" to talk to me. This was the same chap that passed my car on the drive by noise checks... I left the site in disgust - and Tony shrugged his shoulders!
(I am still seething, but will try not to write more and be like a stuck record...)
30 November 2002, 09:58 PM
#83
Didn't realise I was there, Huh. that's why you parked that stealth bomber thingy in MY garage.
I was the very good looking, well built, blonde (not ginger) bloke who came over just after you arrived and were getting the beastie off the trailer.Next time I'll wear a big sign
It was a shame about the noise limits as I had my golf umbrella ready and was looking forward to a ride in the Westie < Normal mode off for a sec> It looks superb. I was gutted for you after all the trouble and expense you had gone through to get there < normal mode back on> mind you the P1 would have had you!!
Davyboy, less of that cheek - 500 lines " I shall not spin my car, I shall not spin my car etc etc"
I was the very good looking, well built, blonde (not ginger) bloke who came over just after you arrived and were getting the beastie off the trailer.Next time I'll wear a big sign
It was a shame about the noise limits as I had my golf umbrella ready and was looking forward to a ride in the Westie < Normal mode off for a sec> It looks superb. I was gutted for you after all the trouble and expense you had gone through to get there < normal mode back on> mind you the P1 would have had you!!
Davyboy, less of that cheek - 500 lines " I shall not spin my car, I shall not spin my car etc etc"
30 November 2002, 10:03 PM
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Shame it all turned into a bit of a farce really. Good to catch up with a few people we hadn't seen for a while. Here are some more pictures.
I think Bedford Autodrome have got to get this sorted. It is ridiculous to take people's money and then pull this kind of stunt. Apparantly, talking to one of the marshalls, they have had numerous complaints from one old boy in the nearest village (christ, that is over 2 miles away FFS!!) every time they have a track day (Scoob or otherwise). Bedford has to be one of the 'remotest' tracks I know in the UK.
And what happened when Bedford was not only an airdrome, but also a test facility for a huge range of military aircraft? Did they have a noise limit for this too?
I afraid in the politically correct times, you cannot be seen to be enjoying your car even on a private track.
Sal and I were there only as spectators and passengers but it still pi**ed us off big time.
Ian / Craig I feel for you. I've been reading your website for the last week or so and I was really looking forward to seeing the XTR2. Damn shame.
I hope Bedford get their act together or they stand to lose a lot of business.
I think Bedford Autodrome have got to get this sorted. It is ridiculous to take people's money and then pull this kind of stunt. Apparantly, talking to one of the marshalls, they have had numerous complaints from one old boy in the nearest village (christ, that is over 2 miles away FFS!!) every time they have a track day (Scoob or otherwise). Bedford has to be one of the 'remotest' tracks I know in the UK.
And what happened when Bedford was not only an airdrome, but also a test facility for a huge range of military aircraft? Did they have a noise limit for this too?
I afraid in the politically correct times, you cannot be seen to be enjoying your car even on a private track.
Sal and I were there only as spectators and passengers but it still pi**ed us off big time.
Ian / Craig I feel for you. I've been reading your website for the last week or so and I was really looking forward to seeing the XTR2. Damn shame.
I hope Bedford get their act together or they stand to lose a lot of business.
30 November 2002, 10:05 PM
#86
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I shall not spin my carI shall not spin my carI shall not spin my carI shall not spin my carI shall not spin my carI shall not spin my carI shall not spin my carI shall not spin my carI shall not spin my carI shall not spin my carI shall not spin my carI shall not spin my carI shall not spin my carI shall not spin my carI shall not spin my carI shall not spin my carI shall not spin my carI shall not spin my carI shall not spin my carI shall not spin my carI shall not spin my carI shall not spin my carI shall not spin my carI shall not spin my carI shall not spin my carI shall not spin my carI shall not spin my carI shall not spin my carI shall not spin my carI shall not spin my carI shall not spin my carI shall not spin my carI shall not spin my carI shall not spin my carI shall not spin my car
30 November 2002, 10:15 PM
#87
In other news today, leading exhaust manufacturers and retailers announced they would all be producing resonated centre sections, despite not being ar5ed to do it in the past.
30 November 2002, 10:19 PM
#89
DavyboyDanny, there should be some good photos, however, Josh was muttering about poor light ( translation: it was cold), metering issues ( translation: it was wet)and the fact that his selenium crystals canna take it no more ( translation: it was cold and wet).I don't know, photographers
[Edited by Fat Boy - 11/30/2002 10:25:26 PM]