TelBoy

That made me laugh. He said that none of the Government's election taxation pledges would be broken.

But he somehow forgot to mention that it didn't mean they couldn't introduce a whole range of stealth taxes that they hadn't even dared to consider in their manifesto.

I do trust nobody reading this is moronic enough to believe all this spin?? [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

Devil's Refugee

Tony Blair for the next Colgate advert anyone ?!
Because that's all he's good for, that false smile.
Mind you, Cherie could do with some lessons, she always looks like the back end of a donkey when she opens that gob.

Ray T

don't forget Tony Blair (TB !!) is just setting himself up to be the european president, were just his stepping stone.

ray t

Si James

I just hate the "holier than thou" attitude of Blair, it really sucks. I feel I am being shafted on tax and loads of other isses, and then being told that it "is good for you". Now I may have to work till I am 95.

What an evil ba5tard Blair, 2 jags and the rest are.......

BTW, whatever happened to the ugly little ****** Robin Cook?


Si

TelBoy

He's in pantomime. Keeps being typecast as Rumplestiltskin, unsurprisingly!!

dnb

^Qwerty^ - I do live in the South East.

GCollier

One of my biggest pet hates is people who continually bitch about things in a totally non-constructive (“it’s all f***** s***”) manner. I’ve met people like this, in fact a work/drinking friend of mine several years ago was constantly slagging off country and government continually talking of emigration to USA/Europe/Canada etc because “everything is so much better there”. In the end I just told him to “f*** off abroad” then, but hmmmm, surprise he is still here (and now an ex-friend, but no loss to be honest).

I’m not saying everything is perfect, because it isn’t. But at the same time, we are clearly in a better state than a lot of Europe, and most of the rest of the world. The UK is still a place of MASSIVE opportunity for people who are prepared to work to try to better themselves.

I just don’t get the prevailing attitude here that the government is “trying to sh*** us”. Common sense dictates that any democratically elected government wishing to stay in power will not go out of their way do that. They just have a lot of tough calls to make in a country with an ageing population, advances in medicine allowing people to live longer (at great financial cost), knock-on effects of the recent IT bubble bursting, global slowdown exacerbated by Sep 11th hitting exports, companies and tax revenues – just to name a few things.

The pot of money the government has to spend is only so big. Peoples expectations in terms of standards of living, old age care, pensions, medical treatment they should be entitled to just goes up all the time…along with the amount of money required to pay for it all. Stealth taxes are the only means to raise this money, given the fickle and hypocritical nature of a lot of the population of this country: the people in this country cannot handle “honesty”. Whatever any government does in terms of taxation and spending, they will de dammed.

Gary.

Sheepsplitter

GCollier: A lot of what you say is true, except, and this is the big one for me:-
"the people in this country cannot handle “honesty”."
This is the problem, the current government is not honest, if it was and said 'look we have to put up income tax', a lot of people would say, ok fair enough, but it's the constant spin about not putting up taxes, but bringing in back door taxes that causes a lot of the discontent.
This government is not honest, in any way shape or form, and it's doing the usual 'pick on the middle earners' to subsidise everyone else.
As for the UK being a massive opportunity for people who are prepared to work to try to better themselves, don't kid yourself, there is more red-tape in the UK than any other European country bar none. The only people who are encouraged to come and make lots of money in the UK are outsiders who stand to get massive tax reductions, we penalise our own companies by taxing them and holding them back.

^Qwerty^

Eeeekkk, thats bad news then. If you think your badly off there then, try moving north a little.

Still claim the best part of London is any platform at KingsX with a GNER train sat on it

GCollier

Sheepsplitter - I disagree. Any government which said something like "Right, we need to raise £60billion in taxes p.a. from now on, this will mean a 5 percent rise in tax across the board, and we are going to be upfront and add 10p onto the basic rate of tax" would be doomed.

I am not an expert in European company law. But what I do know from being married to a Dutch lass (who's brother and friends have and are running their own business), and from having met a lot of French/German/Italian people in my job, is that we really don't have it so bad in terms of taxes and red tape.

Gary.

Sheepsplitter

So you don't think that adding stealth taxes, (which to most people seem sneaky and sleazy), will also doom a government?

I run 3 companys, and have for 8 years. We find trading in the UK much harder than any of the other countries we trade in (Sweden, Japan, US, France and Italy). We will most likely pull out of the UK entirely and trade from one of the other locations.
On the face of it Sweden has the highest tax rates in the world, but in reality, it's actually not so bad because they don't have stealth taxes to factor in.

Let us see how many people are so keen on 'new labour' when they get around to having to levy VAT off house sales. All this will do is penalise those on the bottom rung of the ladder. People paying 1/4-1/2 million or more for a house, will not be so badly hit as first time buyers.

Si James

GCollier: Yes, they would be better upping income tax in return for better services. Whats all this **** about "the pie is only so big?" - it bollox. We are one of the most wealthy countries in the world, and the economy is being mismanaged. Sometimes I think there is a friggin black hole into which all the taxes go.....so much taxation for so little return.

If we stopped behaving like a superpower and going to friggin war every 2 minutes it just might help...........

Si

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

I agree wityh Sheepsplitter. My Bro in law has lived in Bermuda, Australia, and Spain, and he reckons the UK is the "no-can-do" society.
Since he said it, I've come round to looking for red tape etc, rules made to be obeyed, and general dog in the manger attitudes, and he has a point!
Alcazar

^Qwerty^

Further tax rises coming in April as well.

Superb....

Notice somebody mentioned our mate Tony being the EU President in waiting earlier on.... I assme this relies on him finding someway of making the UK abolish the pound and join the Euro?

And quite how that ginger welsh twonk and his Mrs can get such good jobs in Europe is beyond me. Whats that about?

Devil's Refugee

Oh look, the fat-cats in the Govt. have just increased their compliment of Jags, Mercs etc by 20
So much for supporting the public transport system and convincing the rest of us to leave the cars at home !

W@nkers

Sheepsplitter

Well you can't have "the chosen ones" mixing it with the public can you ;-)

Besides, you don't expect them to buy their own cars out of an expense allowance of a mere 50K do you?

[Edited by Sheepsplitter - 12/19/2002 10:28:26 AM]

señor dingdong

You lot r either very young or have short memories...Living Mrs T's Britain was no picnic.
Most of you have got Scoobies haven't you ? Life can't be that bad.

AlexM

My wife has recently finished working for a London local authority, which proved to be an insight.

Basically, Billions and Billions of tax revenue are wasted by the civil service and local authorities. Many of those in charge of multi-million pound budgets would meet the minimum standards of performance that would be required by most companies in the private sector for a comparible position. Poor management decision making abilities and a lack of oversight and accountability mean that it is guarenteed that a lot of your tax revenue is going straight down the toilet.

Because of New Labours dogmatism regarding the method of delivery of public services, you can continue to expect things to get worse. Certain public services that are run efficiently by private companies elsewhere in the world are 'ringfenced' due to the influence of the unions, or for other purely political reasons. Any increases in funding are seemingly absorbed by rising wage demands or wasted through a lack of proper accountability and control.

Where the private sector has been engaged in PPPs, the contractural arrangements are so poorly negotiated that we get the worst of all worlds, i.e. poor performance, high costs, and no tranfer of risks. The incomprehensibly complex governance of most PPP initiatives dooms them to failure, and ensures that the taxpayer will always remain the lender of last resort.

I think we can all expect to be paying a lot more for not much gain for the forseeable future.

[Edited by AlexM - 12/19/2002 5:00:01 PM]

^Qwerty^

I remember Maggie's years, and I remember a few before that as well, and I know which I prefered.
All the signs are that we are returning to the same sham that was the UK before Maggie got into power.

Don't quite know if Labour will win the next election or not, depends if the Tory's pull their finger out, but its plain to see the rot has set in.

Popeye P1

Adding a new twist to this story:- My Hometown has just welcomed the 600-700 Iraquee Asylum seekers from the Sangat Camp in France.
Question is we have unemployment yet can find the time and money to finance these people and give them jobs which British people could clearly have.
I've noticed when anyone mentions Asylum seeker then New Labour play the race card and think you've joined the National Front. One of my best mates is black for christs sake so don't patronise me Tony blair!!!!!!!!
I for one am not prepared to pay higher taxes to fund our own welfare state which breeds criminals and low-life. As for asylum Seekers why can't we help them in their own country????? Isn't that more sensible??

Pops-speaking the truth for the Scoobyman

Many Humbug Returns

Popeye

1. You spelt Iraqi wrongly.

2. You spelt Sangatte wrongly too.

3. We have record levels of employment in the UK presently and need motivated able bodied young people urgently for labour. Asylum Seekers, by dint of the efforts made to get here are highly motivated and resourceful - ideal immigrant workers.

4. They can't get help in their own country because they were being gassed/shot/tortured/you name it....that's why they are seeking asylum!


I hate Blair and New labour too but the hysteria about asylum seekers is just because they are a convenient and visible target for everyone to heap blame and vent their anger on. Personally I hope they all train as plumbers and electricians so I can get my house fixed at a reasonable price instead of the current rip-off hourly rates!

[Edited by Many Humbug Returns - 12/21/2002 2:27:11 PM]

Little Miss WRX

Leave the country.....

GreenMachine

Crisis - what crisis?

Despite everything printed in the Daily Rant, we still live in one of the best countries in the world IMO - which is why a lot of other people would like to live here too!

Pavlo

I'm no fan of labour, but if 'old' labour were in, I think we would at least have an improving NHS, better schools, a half decent railway etc etc.

It's all a right mess

Paul

fast bloke

Can someone explain

Lowest interest rates
Lowest inflation
Lowest unemployment

to me - I mistakenly thought these were good.

Also explain the pension crisis, taking into account that the last time the stockmarkt (FTSE 100 and 250 or equivalent) fell 3 years in sucession was in 1938-41. Of course there is a pension crisis - fortunately, for everyone who is intelligent enough to see past the rags, it is a temporary glitch.

OK - what else are you bitching about - NHS - please take the time and effort to convince me, not by quoting waiting lists, but by quoting operations and procedures actually carried out.

Old timers care - Big prob here is that the NHS is so good that no-one dies when they used to. Did you know that if you were born in 1900 you would have died in 1955 on average, but if you were born in 1950, you should still be kicking about in 2030? Average century lifespan looks like for the babies who are being born today!!

Traffic congestion - Scoobynet OK - Sell your cars and use public transport

marty_t3

Low interest rates have increased borrowing. Won't this cause some serious problems when the interest rates rise again and people find they are overstretched?

The unemployment figures are being aided by the largest number of temp and part time workers for years. Most of these people do not have a stable, permanent income. The figures have also been manipulated by removing many of those on various "employment" schemes. (admittedly this will not be the first government to doctor these figures)

philc

I did .....

... and that was in 1980 - Maggie Thatcher just come to power, dustman's strike only just resolved, also firemen's strike just come to an end ...

think yourself lucky you don't have firemen's strikes anymore

[Edited by philc - 12/22/2002 7:34:44 AM]

rr_ww

Lowest Unemployment?

Tony B. Liar doesnt include people with out jobs in his unemployment figures

As said above the problem is everyones quick to sit back and slate things, but not do anything about it. Dont vote Labour, dont vote Tory, make your own party put down your views and go win the next election. I see theres a group calling themselves http://www.newpartyforbritain.org but read between the lines and they seem to be fairly similar to all the rest in that its just a gravy train for MPs. And tax the middle to pay for the rest.