F.T.A.O. THE GRANADE BRIGADE
19 December 2002, 06:56 PM
#61
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Nos Nova, what colour is your car, only i had abit of a tussle with one on the road a while back, it pulled away in 4th, which i thought was quite funny at the time
Just wondering if it was you
Just wondering if it was you
19 December 2002, 09:40 PM
#63
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I do hope you arent referring to me!
I take offence at being called an IT consultant.
Just for interest, some of the IT consultants I have met through this site are aomng the most intelligent people I have ever met, this is marked by their ability to learn any subject inlcuding engineering and in the process modding.
John Banks is a doctor, who happens to be very adept at electronics, not the most combined of subjects.
Pat is an IT consultant with incredible ability in just about every facet of engineering under the sun.
For some reason I feel obliged to defend some of the people on here you are insulting yet I do not know their individual capailities well enough. I do happen to know that you are now throwing around insults when it is more than probable you know bu99er all about the people you are slating.
please give it a rest.
I take offence at being called an IT consultant.
Just for interest, some of the IT consultants I have met through this site are aomng the most intelligent people I have ever met, this is marked by their ability to learn any subject inlcuding engineering and in the process modding.
John Banks is a doctor, who happens to be very adept at electronics, not the most combined of subjects.
Pat is an IT consultant with incredible ability in just about every facet of engineering under the sun.
For some reason I feel obliged to defend some of the people on here you are insulting yet I do not know their individual capailities well enough. I do happen to know that you are now throwing around insults when it is more than probable you know bu99er all about the people you are slating.
please give it a rest.
19 December 2002, 10:13 PM
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NOS nova: Nobody gives a toss if your Nova can or cannot beat a Subaru or a Ruf tuned 911, it's really not that important in the grand scheme of things is it?. There's always someone or something quicker anyway. Tune your car, put big wheels on it, do what you want and enjoy it, but for pities sake don't ram it down peoples throats that you have the fastest thing on 4 wheels, because it's simply not the case.
Oh and by the way in case you hadn't noticed 'fast' is not just about straight line speed, it's about skill and smoothness, something you may or may not be gifted with.
If you want to go really quick get a bike, that takes lots of skill and your not covered by a steel tin if you make a cockup, so it kind of teaches you to acquire skill or be removed from the gene pool.
Oh and by the way in case you hadn't noticed 'fast' is not just about straight line speed, it's about skill and smoothness, something you may or may not be gifted with.
If you want to go really quick get a bike, that takes lots of skill and your not covered by a steel tin if you make a cockup, so it kind of teaches you to acquire skill or be removed from the gene pool.
20 December 2002, 06:14 PM
#67
Scoobee,
So let me get this straight, you come on this BBS, give yourself the 1000th variation on the name 'Scooby' that is still available, hassle people for their time and knowledge about Subarus and appear to be interested in buying Subaru parts from people.
Yet you don't own a Subaru?
So either you the biggest timewasteing 'talker' on here, or just full of lies.
Paul
Quote "you're the one that owns a subaru?"
don't believe everything you read on a bbs plebo ;]
don't believe everything you read on a bbs plebo ;]
Yet you don't own a Subaru?
So either you the biggest timewasteing 'talker' on here, or just full of lies.
Paul
21 December 2002, 10:40 AM
#68
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Quoted by Nos Nova!
"HOW ABOUT YOU LOT PUTTING YOU MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS???"
Now to me thats insiting comments about sheddy nova's
Any Muppet can shove a new and larger engine into a car, thats for people who think the gains are better, to me thats someone who cant get the best out of an engine.....
Ive seen stuff about a 220bhp+ 1.6 nova, now that gets respect as the guy tuned the standard engine, he hasnt upset the balance of the car by adding a heavier lump and its going to be very capable of hitting low 13's, that gets respect (even though its a nova 
)
If you think your car is soooooooooooooo excellent
and its the ultimate scooby beater, then go up against some of the REALLY powerful scoobs (like the ones in Oz that do sub 9 sec 1/4 miles) and yes even though they have had lots of cash thrown at them they are more than capable of whooping your nova's ***
Now the trouble with you is that you NEED to prove that your car is good, we on the other hand dont need to prove anything, this is the difference (oh and vauxhalls are really reliable by your topic's name )
Tony
"HOW ABOUT YOU LOT PUTTING YOU MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS???"
Now to me thats insiting comments about sheddy nova's
Any Muppet can shove a new and larger engine into a car, thats for people who think the gains are better, to me thats someone who cant get the best out of an engine.....
Ive seen stuff about a 220bhp+ 1.6 nova, now that gets respect as the guy tuned the standard engine, he hasnt upset the balance of the car by adding a heavier lump and its going to be very capable of hitting low 13's, that gets respect
(even though its a nova )If you think your car is soooooooooooooo excellent
and its the ultimate scooby beater, then go up against some of the REALLY powerful scoobs (like the ones in Oz that do sub 9 sec 1/4 miles) and yes even though they have had lots of cash thrown at them they are more than capable of whooping your nova's *** Now the trouble with you is that you NEED to prove that your car is good, we on the other hand dont need to prove anything
, this is the difference (oh and vauxhalls are really reliable by your topic's name )Tony
21 December 2002, 11:10 AM
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Yeah like I'm going to fall for this one like the "unnamed one". There is no way I'm gonna 1/4 mile with a car that is half the weight of mine and has the same power than me.
Unless of course someone lend me 3.6k to get my car ready, then I'll do it and bet 5k for it.
Unless of course someone lend me 3.6k to get my car ready, then I'll do it and bet 5k for it.
21 December 2002, 11:35 AM
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Think your right NOS, they all seem to have a pile of bits or a spec 'on paper' that will run 10's but I've yet to even see proof of an 11 !!!
The quickest (steel bodied saloon) drag cars are 2wd anyway and have auto boxes.
4wd is for muddy farms.
The quickest (steel bodied saloon) drag cars are 2wd anyway and have auto boxes.
4wd is for muddy farms.
21 December 2002, 11:42 AM
#72
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Nos
Just remember you cannot polish a turd!
Even making all the changes/mods you have made to one.
Just remember 99% of driving instructors cannot be wrong, they are just for learing to drive in - before you get a proper car!
Just remember you cannot polish a turd!
Even making all the changes/mods you have made to one.
Just remember 99% of driving instructors cannot be wrong, they are just for learing to drive in - before you get a proper car!
21 December 2002, 12:09 PM
#73
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What a Bizzare thread?
NOS...how much did you spend tuning your car?
Then we can find someone who spent the same amount tuning theirs, and I guess that would be a fair competition, because really all you are trying to do is compete the "state of tune" of your car with someone elses.
Credit to you: it does sound like you have done a really good job modding your car, and for out-and-out straight line speed you will probsbly beat most sccobies. As you should. Scoobs are about being a good "all rounder". It doesn't actually excel at any one thing. Buying a scoob you get:
a good (but not the best) wife friendly daily driver
a striking (some might say pretty, but not me) looking car
a car that will cope with the odd muddy field
a car that is a hell of a lot of fun to drive fast
a car that is a lot of fun to drive slow
perfectly good handling and grip (not something the Nova is famous for!)
plenty of power (though not the fastest, esp with the hungry 4wd system)
and all for a pretty sensible price.
Not many cars offer that in one box. There are better handling cars, more powerful cars (Skyline, anyone? Lancer Evo, anyone? Even a type RA, anyone?) but a UK scoob tends to be the best compromise: it is a performance car for the masses.
Now modding cars is a different matter: As mentioned....you need to find someone who modded their scoob with the smae goals (and roughly the same amount of cash) as you for it to be a fir contest. As most people don't just mod for 1/4 mile times (and those that do spend a fortune) you may find that rather hard.
I would like to see you race against a FIAT 20v Turbo on the strip. A modified one! It sounds lik it would be a good match up.
If you really want to prove your car is fast, you need to take it on a circuit. If you can beat scoobies there, you wil get (richly deserved) respect.
NOS...how much did you spend tuning your car?
Then we can find someone who spent the same amount tuning theirs, and I guess that would be a fair competition, because really all you are trying to do is compete the "state of tune" of your car with someone elses.
Credit to you: it does sound like you have done a really good job modding your car, and for out-and-out straight line speed you will probsbly beat most sccobies. As you should. Scoobs are about being a good "all rounder". It doesn't actually excel at any one thing. Buying a scoob you get:
a good (but not the best) wife friendly daily driver
a striking (some might say pretty, but not me) looking car
a car that will cope with the odd muddy field
a car that is a hell of a lot of fun to drive fast
a car that is a lot of fun to drive slow
perfectly good handling and grip (not something the Nova is famous for!
)plenty of power (though not the fastest, esp with the hungry 4wd system)
and all for a pretty sensible price.
Not many cars offer that in one box. There are better handling cars, more powerful cars (Skyline, anyone? Lancer Evo, anyone? Even a type RA, anyone?) but a UK scoob tends to be the best compromise: it is a performance car for the masses.
Now modding cars is a different matter: As mentioned....you need to find someone who modded their scoob with the smae goals (and roughly the same amount of cash) as you for it to be a fir contest. As most people don't just mod for 1/4 mile times (and those that do spend a fortune) you may find that rather hard.
I would like to see you race against a FIAT 20v Turbo on the strip. A modified one! It sounds lik it would be a good match up.
If you really want to prove your car is fast, you need to take it on a circuit. If you can beat scoobies there, you wil get (richly deserved) respect.
21 December 2002, 03:00 PM
#75
Maybe you can't polish a turd, but however far removed from automotive refinement a Nova may be, NOSnova has still created something quite unique.
Whatever insults have been thrown about, the fact that he's run a 12.3, faster than nearly every one on here that has dragged their car on the 1/4 remains.
I'm still interested to know what tyres were used for the 12.3, the track conditions, weather etc. It's a very impressive time for a FWD car.
Harvey's car did a 12.48 in the wet at Elvington, and he had to back off on the throttle to prevent the boost going mental (actuator problems).
Some more light reading can be found here. I won't bother posting the times, as I am sure the same arguments occur.
Paul
Whatever insults have been thrown about, the fact that he's run a 12.3, faster than nearly every one on here that has dragged their car on the 1/4 remains.
I'm still interested to know what tyres were used for the 12.3, the track conditions, weather etc. It's a very impressive time for a FWD car.
Harvey's car did a 12.48 in the wet at Elvington, and he had to back off on the throttle to prevent the boost going mental (actuator problems).
Some more light reading can be found here. I won't bother posting the times, as I am sure the same arguments occur.
Paul
21 December 2002, 04:00 PM
#76
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2.0L novas are not the best modded Novas.
1.6L turbo is the best conversion - it has a really nice balance of power and handling.
To be honest, this is probably a wind up, as somebody has offered a date to mr Nova, but he has not taken up the challenge.
Tell you what mr NOS NOVA, I'll race ya in my 620Ti...
Not on the 1/4 mile though - that proves nowt. I'll race you, say, 10 laps around Castle Combe circuit?
Gauntlet on the floor mate...
1.6L turbo is the best conversion - it has a really nice balance of power and handling.
To be honest, this is probably a wind up, as somebody has offered a date to mr Nova, but he has not taken up the challenge.
Tell you what mr NOS NOVA, I'll race ya in my 620Ti...
Not on the 1/4 mile though - that proves nowt. I'll race you, say, 10 laps around Castle Combe circuit?
Gauntlet on the floor mate...
21 December 2002, 04:50 PM
#77
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oOOOoo 620Ti....stealth mobile! Specs please!
Have had an 820Vitesse (2.0Turbo, mildly breathed on...230bhp) and a lot of fun it was too!
I wonder how Stealthy mine will be with it's dump valve (nudge Christian)??
[Edited by Turbo_Steve - 12/21/2002 4:53:09 PM]
Have had an 820Vitesse (2.0Turbo, mildly breathed on...230bhp) and a lot of fun it was too!
I wonder how Stealthy mine will be with it's dump valve (nudge Christian)??
[Edited by Turbo_Steve - 12/21/2002 4:53:09 PM]
21 December 2002, 06:09 PM
#78
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Nos,
CraigH's old STi5 did sub 12 sec 1/4's, Harveys car would IMHO be very capable of doing the same
As for comparing mods v mods money wise.....
Not really a fair comparison, Nova added a 2ltr turbo lump that probably cost 1.5k, now if you say a new 2ltr turbo lump then your looking at oh, 5-6k? which would really be fairer (and remember that most of the scoobs are still running their "Original engine" but just rebuilt).
There is also Scotts car (the RC Developements one) which has over "400BHP" and should be capable of some very good 1/4 mile times but not all people want to do 1/4 mile times as its not really the proof that you have a fast car, now midrange torque proves alot and general drivability (esp on the road) which is where these cars do show their true form
Tony
CraigH's old STi5 did sub 12 sec 1/4's, Harveys car would IMHO be very capable of doing the same
As for comparing mods v mods money wise.....
Not really a fair comparison, Nova added a 2ltr turbo lump that probably cost 1.5k, now if you say a new 2ltr turbo lump then your looking at oh, 5-6k? which would really be fairer (and remember that most of the scoobs are still running their "Original engine" but just rebuilt
).There is also Scotts car (the RC Developements one) which has over "400BHP" and should be capable of some very good 1/4 mile times but not all people want to do 1/4 mile times as its not really the proof that you have a fast car, now midrange torque proves alot
and general drivability (esp on the road) which is where these cars do show their true form Tony
21 December 2002, 06:12 PM
#79
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NOS,
Was that IT Consultant comment aimed at me??
Colour of the car?
Engine??
Specs?
Obviously its all very well saying your car does 12.3's but we need proof... just like you did
Was that IT Consultant comment aimed at me??
Colour of the car?
Engine??
Specs?
Obviously its all very well saying your car does 12.3's but we need proof... just like you did
21 December 2002, 06:26 PM
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Christian,
Thats the reason i quoted the bhp figure, i dont think that anyone has seen the rolling road results from RC Developements re Scotts car but it is f*****g quick!
(and off the road again )
Tony
Thats the reason i quoted the bhp figure, i dont think that anyone has seen the rolling road results from RC Developements re Scotts car but it is f*****g quick!
(and off the road again
)Tony
21 December 2002, 07:39 PM
#82
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Not many cars offer that in one box. There are better handling cars, more powerful cars (Skyline, anyone? Lancer Evo, anyone? Even a type RA, anyone?) but a UK scoob tends to be the best compromise: it is a performance car for the masses.
21 December 2002, 08:00 PM
#83
Good points raised...
So this 12.3 1/4. Does anyone know what tres were used? I take it this was at the Pod, any timeslips?
IIRC, a fair bit of rubber went down at Elvington, does it remain fairly well gripped up?
Going to be interesting in those near freezing temperatures, FWD may suffer when compared to a run at the Pod in fair weather.
Paul
So this 12.3 1/4. Does anyone know what tres were used? I take it this was at the Pod, any timeslips?
IIRC, a fair bit of rubber went down at Elvington, does it remain fairly well gripped up?
Going to be interesting in those near freezing temperatures, FWD may suffer when compared to a run at the Pod in fair weather.
Paul
22 December 2002, 03:33 AM
#87
Nos: Perhaps you could clarify for me if you consider I am one of the GRANADE BRIGADE as you put it?
Regardless,to do 12.3 1/4mls is an achievement and it does not matter if it was with a Calibra Turbo engine or a modded 1.6 or anything else. The talkers and dreamers can postulate as much as they want while you obviously got on with it. As long as you are happy with what you are doing then good luck.
The date for the next New York Raceway will be end February or early March and will only be set once Santa Pod announce their programme so that the two are run on alternative dates. AFAIK it is always on a Sunday.
Christian: I will not be sending my Well Lane graph or posting it on the net. Anyone who wanted to see it had the opportunity to examine it at W.L.3 and afterwards it was passed round freely when we had a meal with David,Mark, Steeve, Trout, Alan G etc.
If you are at the next W.L. you can see whatever I produce on the graph on the day as can anybody else that is interested.
My own car is not designed for 1/4ml runs with 3.9 diffs and the type of turbo in use etc. However the next set of runs will be better than the last 12.48 and there will be a further increase in speed at the 1 kilometer. Amongst other things my boost is now under control and increased slightly from the last Elvington settings. A dry surface would also help.
Regardless,to do 12.3 1/4mls is an achievement and it does not matter if it was with a Calibra Turbo engine or a modded 1.6 or anything else. The talkers and dreamers can postulate as much as they want while you obviously got on with it. As long as you are happy with what you are doing then good luck.
The date for the next New York Raceway will be end February or early March and will only be set once Santa Pod announce their programme so that the two are run on alternative dates. AFAIK it is always on a Sunday.
Christian: I will not be sending my Well Lane graph or posting it on the net. Anyone who wanted to see it had the opportunity to examine it at W.L.3 and afterwards it was passed round freely when we had a meal with David,Mark, Steeve, Trout, Alan G etc.
If you are at the next W.L. you can see whatever I produce on the graph on the day as can anybody else that is interested.
My own car is not designed for 1/4ml runs with 3.9 diffs and the type of turbo in use etc. However the next set of runs will be better than the last 12.48 and there will be a further increase in speed at the 1 kilometer. Amongst other things my boost is now under control and increased slightly from the last Elvington settings. A dry surface would also help.
22 December 2002, 03:54 AM
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Harvey,
agree with what you say but the fact is that your car is an all round balanced car rather than a "drag strip" vehicle like nos nova's car
As i have stated, any muppet can shove a bigger engine in a car, the real tuners are the ones who work with what they have, IE you and even though you may ONLY be producing around 450bhp (which is pretty good considering my scoob only has 263bhp with minimal mods ) the main fact that no matter how hard you try, its still a nova
There is still no such production car as a 2ltr turbo nova, simple fact, there is however a minority of scoobs that produce over 400bhp (for the time being) running the same engine etc which is classed as a "Modified version of the road going car" rather than "a kit car"
Christian, AFAIK, Scotts RC developements car has no "visable" information about how many bhp it pushes (thus the reason i dont really believe that rc developements can produce a car thats 1. reliable with over 400bhp ie Scotts car's been off the road for 5 months + at this time, 2. been shown to the public to enhance the attributes of the company to show that the available specs/ability to tune said car SAFELY to over 400bhp).
Tony
agree with what you say but the fact is that your car is an all round balanced car rather than a "drag strip" vehicle like nos nova's car
As i have stated, any muppet can shove a bigger engine in a car, the real tuners are the ones who work with what they have, IE you
and even though you may ONLY be producing around 450bhp (which is pretty good considering my scoob only has 263bhp with minimal mods ) the main fact that no matter how hard you try, its still a nova There is still no such production car as a 2ltr turbo nova, simple fact, there is however a minority of scoobs that produce over 400bhp (for the time being
) running the same engine etc which is classed as a "Modified version of the road going car" rather than "a kit car" Christian, AFAIK, Scotts RC developements car has no "visable" information about how many bhp it pushes (thus the reason i dont really believe that rc developements can produce a car thats 1. reliable with over 400bhp ie Scotts car's been off the road for 5 months + at this time, 2. been shown to the public to enhance the attributes of the company to show that the available specs/ability to tune said car SAFELY to over 400bhp).
Tony
22 December 2002, 12:23 PM
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Tony.. Im sorry, Ive got to disagree with you on this one...
My new engine, is a subaru engine, but with different internals... Ive got different turbos, fuel pump, fuel pressure reg etc, different gearbox...
So as Ive changed the block (possibly out of a legacy turbo) and put a different box in (never in any of the pre MY01 cars) does this mean im cheating....
I think as its a vauxhall engine then it is ok. (if it was a V8 rover then it would be different)
I have no problems with modifing cars the way nos has... You need to know more to do what he has done...
Tune a scoob... bolt bits on...
Tune a nova...
2ltr turbo, and say the F20 Box... Youve allready (assuming you can get the engine in without attacking the chassis leg with a hammer or messing with the alternator..) got a problem with the driveshafts.. (also carquip sell them)
Engine mountings aside... a charge cooler is a better solution on these due to the room... With this being the turbo, you cant really retro fit the dizzy and shove twin 45's on or sbd's throttlebody kit...
so you need to get the std wiring loom and do one of two things...
fit a non injection loom to the nova, as the only wires for the engine are water temp, oil pressure / temp, alternator, ign coil feed, rev counter pulse, and possibly one for the carb.. (maybe the odd other or two)
You then get the turbo loom and remove everything like lights, dash etc... and then mate the two together.. so you sort of have 2 looms, engine and car...
Takes a while...
So more respect has to go to nos nova... than some on here who just bolt bits on (I make my bits that I bolt on..)
However NOS nova did suggest that he had paid to have it done...
David
Who has done more than 1 nova conversion
My new engine, is a subaru engine, but with different internals... Ive got different turbos, fuel pump, fuel pressure reg etc, different gearbox...
So as Ive changed the block (possibly out of a legacy turbo) and put a different box in (never in any of the pre MY01 cars) does this mean im cheating....
I think as its a vauxhall engine then it is ok. (if it was a V8 rover then it would be different)
I have no problems with modifing cars the way nos has... You need to know more to do what he has done...
Tune a scoob... bolt bits on...
Tune a nova...
2ltr turbo, and say the F20 Box... Youve allready (assuming you can get the engine in without attacking the chassis leg with a hammer or messing with the alternator..) got a problem with the driveshafts.. (also carquip sell them)
Engine mountings aside... a charge cooler is a better solution on these due to the room... With this being the turbo, you cant really retro fit the dizzy and shove twin 45's on or sbd's throttlebody kit...
so you need to get the std wiring loom and do one of two things...
fit a non injection loom to the nova, as the only wires for the engine are water temp, oil pressure / temp, alternator, ign coil feed, rev counter pulse, and possibly one for the carb.. (maybe the odd other or two)
You then get the turbo loom and remove everything like lights, dash etc... and then mate the two together.. so you sort of have 2 looms, engine and car...
Takes a while...
So more respect has to go to nos nova... than some on here who just bolt bits on
(I make my bits that I bolt on..)However NOS nova did suggest that he had paid to have it done...
David
Who has done more than 1 nova conversion
22 December 2002, 01:38 PM
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Tony,
"As i have stated, any muppet can shove a bigger engine in a car, the real tuners are the ones who work with what they have"
Slightly daft sweeping statement. Well, I've been called worse, by better people
So long as the chosen modding route is done correctly, there's no "right" way, or "wrong" way.
The good thing about dropping an EJ22, or EJ25 into a Scoob, is that they will just drop straight in (well almost) given that all of these engines are used in one of the various Scoobs, in the first place.
However, if you think it's easy to get serious power from ANY of these engine, you should try it !!!
Personally, I think NOS has done a bloody good job. You don't get those type of results without having done so. I'd be intrested to know what 1/4 mile times he gets WITHOUT the nitrous though ?
Mark.
"As i have stated, any muppet can shove a bigger engine in a car, the real tuners are the ones who work with what they have"
Slightly daft sweeping statement. Well, I've been called worse, by better people
So long as the chosen modding route is done correctly, there's no "right" way, or "wrong" way.
The good thing about dropping an EJ22, or EJ25 into a Scoob, is that they will just drop straight in (well almost) given that all of these engines are used in one of the various Scoobs, in the first place.
However, if you think it's easy to get serious power from ANY of these engine, you should try it !!!
Personally, I think NOS has done a bloody good job. You don't get those type of results without having done so. I'd be intrested to know what 1/4 mile times he gets WITHOUT the nitrous though ?
Mark.