Katana

Yup the moon is there, and all the other planets too. Even got a few bases on the planets too. And there is a Saturn V. You just have to look for it. The webmastrt is a physics prfessor, not an engineer hence why evrything is hidden and not easily accessable.

carl

But a medical physics professor, it would seem

Mind you, there was someone employed as a medical physicist on my astrophysics MSc course (it was a part-time one, so we all had 'proper' jobs too...)

Katana

Same difference.

hotsam

Info on the "Space Elevator":

http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/space_elevator_020327-1.html

andrewdelvard

Thanks for that hotsam, very interesting.
Highlighted it for everyone...


http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/space_elevator_020327-2.html

Katana

Space elevators are a bit unfeasible to do at the moment. We don't have the technology to do nano stuff yet. And none of our strongest materials present could hold the amount of stresses involved..

Sparky1066

Even if possible, a shuttle ride to the moon wouldn't be cost effective as a tourist attraction................yet.

carl

Er, the shuttle is designed to get to low Earth orbit (LEO) -- a few hundred miles. The moon is over a quarter of a million miles. There is no way you could pack enough fuel in the shuttle to get it to the moon. I doubt if the main engines (plus boosters) even produce enough delta-V to escape the Earth's gravity well.

Edit: I knew this was in a FAQ somewhere. From the sci.space.shuttle FAQ:[Edited by carl - 1/2/2003 1:33:32 PM]

carl

The Saturn V launcher used for Apollo had three stages -- the first one had five Rocketdyne F1 engines which are far more powerful than the shuttle's main engines. Second stage again five engines (I think they were called J2 and use LH/LOX rather than Kerosene/LOX). Third stage was single engine, IIRC. The Saturn V launcher is still, IIRC, second only to the Energiya in terms of amount of thrust. Also remember that something like 98% of the launch mass was the fuel.

Now take the shuttle -- it weighs something like 90 tons so you'd need something enormous to lift it and boost it into some sort of lunar transfer orbit. Remember that Apollo had the service module engine to do this job, and the shuttle main engines aren't relightable and the fuel's carried in an external tank which is dumped during the launch phase. Then when you get to the moon you have to slow it down to get it into lunar orbit, using the non-relightable engines and the fuel you dumped into the Pacific. Then to get out of lunar orbit you have to do the same thing, and the same thing again back at Earth to drop you back into the atmosphere at a sensible speed.

Edit: For comparison, the Apollo launch mass was about 34 tons, of which 18 tons was propellant. Space shuttle varies (according to which one) between 78 and 82 tons dry, with 22 tons of fuel for the OMS and 3 tons for the RCS. So the shuttle is at least three times heavier than the combined Apollo CSM/LM/escape tower

Not happening.

[Edited by carl - 1/2/2003 2:07:16 PM]

carl

Unobtanium is what it's called.

BTW the Space Shuttle does have a propulsion system in addition to the OMS (Orbital Manouevering System) and RCS (Reaction Control System) -- three thumping great Rocketdyne SSMEs. Trouble is, as I said earlier, the fuel tank's external and dumped during the launch phase, and they can't be re-ignited.

super_si -- if this is your 'specialist subject' then I'm surprised you don't (a) know that ISS isn't in geostationary orbit and (b) think that satellites in geostationary orbit would sooner or later 'get wiped out' There are 180 (IIRC) orbital slots in the GEO band (2 degrees separation between each slot), but some people like SES are smart-***** and fit half a dozen Astra satellites into the same slot.

[Edited by carl - 1/2/2003 7:13:35 PM]

carl

I have a printout somewhere, and do know some of the basics of orbital mechanics (wrote my own sim in FORTRAN for my MSc project, but it was just dust particles not spacecraft).

Can't believe that there's no Saturn V/Apollo CSM in there. I'd want to practise putting the stack in a barbecue spin, just like Jim Lovell

Is the Moon in this sim? I'm not really that interested in Earth-orbit stuff, more in the interaction between the Moon and Earth's gravity. Even better if the Sun's in it too (not just position, I mean as a gravitational object). I'd like to do some flying around in the Lagrangian points (both the colinear and sextile ones).

[Edited by carl - 1/2/2003 7:41:33 PM]