22B or M3?
05 January 2003, 11:23 PM
#31
I know the M3 is an awesome car and i am not saying anything negative about it at all. What i am saying is you are comparing a 22B to an 02 WRX and basically saying because the 22B is AWD it isnt the same type of driving experience as the M3.
22B's handle totally diferently to an 02 WRX, they are much more rear biased, have a diferent type of front, centre and rear diff, and if you know how to drive them, they are an equal in feel to any top spec RWD car. (not to mention a more torquey 2.2 engine, 60BHP more, less weight, stiffer chassis, wider track, magnesium wheels.....)
I would take the 22B every time, using the DCCD with high % lock to get maximum traction for speed in the wet. If i wanted to have a laugh driving it like a RWD car in the wet, i could do that too. It's far more versatile than an M3 in that respect.
22B's handle totally diferently to an 02 WRX, they are much more rear biased, have a diferent type of front, centre and rear diff, and if you know how to drive them, they are an equal in feel to any top spec RWD car. (not to mention a more torquey 2.2 engine, 60BHP more, less weight, stiffer chassis, wider track, magnesium wheels.....)
I would take the 22B every time, using the DCCD with high % lock to get maximum traction for speed in the wet. If i wanted to have a laugh driving it like a RWD car in the wet, i could do that too. It's far more versatile than an M3 in that respect.
06 January 2003, 12:41 AM
#32
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I think some people are missing the question. I'm gathering the question was would you rather the 22b or the m3 that was around when the 22b was produced ('98). They are quite different cars, 6 cylinder v. 4 and AWD v. RWD to name a few. I havnt driven either of the cars, but on looks and all the talk i have heard, the 22b takes it hands down as you just can't beat those massive guards and the fact that there are 400 of the suckers floating around (i could go on and on and on). 22b 22b 22b gets my vote.
M3 Evo - The best 6 cylinder is the skyline, get it right
TheScooby
M3 Evo - The best 6 cylinder is the skyline, get it right
TheScooby
06 January 2003, 10:26 AM
#34
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Just out of interest - the guys that have slated the M3 - how many of you have actually driven it?
.
06 January 2003, 11:14 AM
#36
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A friend of mine is a BMW Sales Exec, he gets to drive an M3 fairly regularly and it's his job to sell the things. I took him out in my (standard) P1 in the wet, 4 of us in the car ... he was amazed, and conceded that it was certainly an all-round quicker *road* car. Launching off the lights in a good 10mm of standing water kinda proved the point.
However, I've never driven an M3 and don't doubt that when driven on a track they're a pretty capable machine. And if creature-comforts are your thing then there can be no competition - Scooby interiors, sound-proofing, etc. just don't compare.
However, I've never driven an M3 and don't doubt that when driven on a track they're a pretty capable machine. And if creature-comforts are your thing then there can be no competition - Scooby interiors, sound-proofing, etc. just don't compare.
06 January 2003, 11:29 AM
#37
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chrisp wrote:
> I guess by that statement you havent driven a 22B otherwise
> you wouldnt have posted that
I don't see how slating other cars - especially when you havent driven them - makes your own car any better. Every car no matter how good has its own particular weaknesses and strengths. Only accepting your own opinion at the whole truth and nothing but the truth kind of defeats the purpose of a discussion board doesnt it?
As I mentioned before I am looking forward to any offers for a drive in a 22B - purely for educational purposes...
> I guess by that statement you havent driven a 22B otherwise
> you wouldnt have posted that
I don't see how slating other cars - especially when you havent driven them - makes your own car any better. Every car no matter how good has its own particular weaknesses and strengths. Only accepting your own opinion at the whole truth and nothing but the truth kind of defeats the purpose of a discussion board doesnt it?
As I mentioned before I am looking forward to any offers for a drive in a 22B - purely for educational purposes...
06 January 2003, 12:21 PM
#38
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"It depends what you want and how much you want to spend and where you think you are getting value for money"
Hit the nail on the head there. I mean if you were looking at a 550 maranello you could say that the DB7 vantage is just as good for 50K less. but you could then say that the 996 is as good as that, but an M3 is everybit as good as the posrche. Then you can say that and STi UK is match for the M3 too and so on and so forth.
Hit the nail on the head there. I mean if you were looking at a 550 maranello you could say that the DB7 vantage is just as good for 50K less. but you could then say that the 996 is as good as that, but an M3 is everybit as good as the posrche. Then you can say that and STi UK is match for the M3 too and so on and so forth.
06 January 2003, 12:29 PM
#39
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'That engine is simply THE greatest six cylinder ever!'
Bollox
RB26DETT Thankyou
Bollox my ****
Yes i am aware the skyline engine can be tuned to 1,000bhp+ but that doesnt make it an all conquering engine in standard form. I do agree its a great engine, but not it standard form compared to the M3 when the turbos take half an hour to spool up and its lazy to rev The skyline engine needs modifying to bring it to life (i dont actually think a standard GT-R exists)
Noticed you hang around Preston mate - you wouldnt have a silver GTR would you?
Bollox
RB26DETT Thankyou
Bollox my ****
Yes i am aware the skyline engine can be tuned to 1,000bhp+ but that doesnt make it an all conquering engine in standard form. I do agree its a great engine, but not it standard form compared to the M3 when the turbos take half an hour to spool up and its lazy to rev
The skyline engine needs modifying to bring it to life (i dont actually think a standard GT-R exists)Noticed you hang around Preston mate - you wouldnt have a silver GTR would you?
06 January 2003, 02:19 PM
#41
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Dont diss the M3.
I DO KNOW!!!!
In the correct hands it IS a tool!!!!
I too love the 22b but it does look a little dated now and no way is any Subaru worth £40K
I DO KNOW!!!!
In the correct hands it IS a tool!!!!
I too love the 22b but it does look a little dated now and no way is any Subaru worth £40K
06 January 2003, 02:25 PM
#42
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An M3 engine comes highly tuned in the first place.
A skyline engine is heavily restricted due to Jap gentleman's agreements.
I think, IMHO, that a fair comparison between engines will involve tuning them to their full potential, and from what I have seen, the Skyline engine shats all over the M3 one
Sorry, this has nothing to do with the original thread! Personally, I would get the 22B. The M3 is an awesome car (my mate has the E36 EVO), but the only thing that puts me off them is the rudies who drive 316is's with M-tech badges. I've also seen some E46 316's with the M3 side grills (and 4-exhaust conversions!)...
A skyline engine is heavily restricted due to Jap gentleman's agreements.
I think, IMHO, that a fair comparison between engines will involve tuning them to their full potential, and from what I have seen, the Skyline engine shats all over the M3 one
Sorry, this has nothing to do with the original thread! Personally, I would get the 22B. The M3 is an awesome car (my mate has the E36 EVO), but the only thing that puts me off them is the rudies who drive 316is's with M-tech badges. I've also seen some E46 316's with the M3 side grills (and 4-exhaust conversions!)...
06 January 2003, 03:31 PM
#43
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sorry arron but you have never been more wrong.
I would say that a P2000 wrc is well worth far far more than 40k.
Considering something is only worth what someone will pay for it, ask any rally team is they would pay 40k for a works wrc'99 P2000, S44 etc, all subarus and all well over 40k.
I would even go so far as to say a little more special than your average E46 M3.
DO love the M3 but hasnt it had massive numbers of engine failures.
I am sure they said the 3.2 was on its limit already, yet they revamp it and extract another 20bhp, hmmmmm.
and which fool who has never been in a gtr said that skylines dont rev? they are built to rev! they have a tiny stroke and a long rod, ideal geometry for revving, more so than the M3!
does the m3 redline at 8k? I believe there is a guy called mario in aus who revs to 14k!
I would say that a P2000 wrc is well worth far far more than 40k.
Considering something is only worth what someone will pay for it, ask any rally team is they would pay 40k for a works wrc'99 P2000, S44 etc, all subarus and all well over 40k.
I would even go so far as to say a little more special than your average E46 M3.
DO love the M3 but hasnt it had massive numbers of engine failures.
I am sure they said the 3.2 was on its limit already, yet they revamp it and extract another 20bhp, hmmmmm.
and which fool who has never been in a gtr said that skylines dont rev? they are built to rev! they have a tiny stroke and a long rod, ideal geometry for revving, more so than the M3!
does the m3 redline at 8k? I believe there is a guy called mario in aus who revs to 14k!
06 January 2003, 03:39 PM
#44
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Adam M wrote:
> does the m3 redline at 8k? I believe there is a guy called
> mario in aus who revs to 14k!
I'm sure the E46 M3 can be revved to 14k as well - at least once!
But revving to 14k is certainly not a standard engine...don't compare apples to oranges - a modded engine will usually run circles around a standard engine (and rightly so).
FWIW - the current rash of engine failures for the E46 M3s has to do with production tolerances on the pistonrods. This would be a characteristic problem of an engine on the edge of its design limitations...
> does the m3 redline at 8k? I believe there is a guy called
> mario in aus who revs to 14k!
I'm sure the E46 M3 can be revved to 14k as well - at least once!
But revving to 14k is certainly not a standard engine...don't compare apples to oranges - a modded engine will usually run circles around a standard engine (and rightly so).
FWIW - the current rash of engine failures for the E46 M3s has to do with production tolerances on the pistonrods. This would be a characteristic problem of an engine on the edge of its design limitations...
06 January 2003, 03:53 PM
#45
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"and which fool who has never been in a gtr said that skylines dont rev? they are built to rev! they have a tiny stroke and a long rod, ideal geometry for revving, more so than the M3!
does the m3 redline at 8k? I believe there is a guy called mario in aus who revs to 14k!"
err yes i have driven several skyline R33 GTRs as i considered one and used to live only 10 mins away from Middlehurst motorsport
sorry but nothing can match the instant response from a normally aspirated engine.
i also said that my argument is based on the engines being based on their state of tune when they leave the factory. in which case M3 pisses on GTR.
does the m3 redline at 8k? I believe there is a guy called mario in aus who revs to 14k!"
err yes i have driven several skyline R33 GTRs as i considered one and used to live only 10 mins away from Middlehurst motorsport
sorry but nothing can match the instant response from a normally aspirated engine.
i also said that my argument is based on the engines being based on their state of tune when they leave the factory. in which case M3 pisses on GTR.
06 January 2003, 03:57 PM
#46
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Adam what are you on????? 
It states a ROAD car not a bloodt WRC.
The ROAD 22b aint worth £40K.
If you can pick me up a WRC for £40K then I`ll have two please.
It states a ROAD car not a bloodt WRC.
The ROAD 22b aint worth £40K.
If you can pick me up a WRC for £40K then I`ll have two please.
06 January 2003, 04:41 PM
#47
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arron, was being facetious and pedantic (its in my job description), you didnt say road car, you said ANY subaru!!
dont understand M3 EVO, if you have so much experience of skylines then what makes you think they dont rev? because put quite simply, they do!
dont understand M3 EVO, if you have so much experience of skylines then what makes you think they dont rev? because put quite simply, they do!
06 January 2003, 11:15 PM
#50
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Crispy,
I didn't say a bad word against the 22B - go back and check my posts! I love Scoobs, and if I didn't have an M3 it would be my choice. I have never driven/seen a 22B to be perfectly honest - but I bet its a real beast, and it does seem to have cult status!
My post was about the following BS:
"Quick profit ?
Latest toy ?
Cant afford the repayments/ running costs ?
Bored and fancy something else ?
Not what they expected ?
Too scarey and powerful and cant drive it ?
Other reason ?"
I didn't say a bad word against the 22B - go back and check my posts! I love Scoobs, and if I didn't have an M3 it would be my choice. I have never driven/seen a 22B to be perfectly honest - but I bet its a real beast, and it does seem to have cult status!
My post was about the following BS:
"Quick profit ?
Latest toy ?
Cant afford the repayments/ running costs ?
Bored and fancy something else ?
Not what they expected ?
Too scarey and powerful and cant drive it ?
Other reason ?"
06 January 2003, 11:18 PM
#51
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Suppose to be humour and nothing was meant by it. Just interested why there seem to be a quite a few M3 owners selling their E46s.
You havent said anything directly against 22B just that scoobs are worse is almost every respect.
You havent said anything directly against 22B just that scoobs are worse is almost every respect.
07 January 2003, 12:14 AM
#53
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Having never driven the 22b cant really compare the 2 cars, all I can see is thet the M3 is a very very fine car, you have your quality and your power...
However having a friend who has a new M3 SMGII can say that is fast, very fast but It just did'nt seem right to be giving it fall revs all the while without it felling a little uncomfortable, it's hard to explain it just did'nt feel like this was the correct way to drive the car. The Type R I have just seems to fell right sliding out of corners and knocking on 7500rpm and snicking the next gear popping in and out gaps in trafic...
Would I have a 22B or an M3... depends, if I was going to use it sparringly then the 22B every time if I was doing 20-30k a year then the M3, both have draw backs and both have advantages, thinking about it though the M3 has a lot more than 22B, I live out in the sticks and and there are more M3's around here than there are any make of scoobies... M3 fabulous car just pity about the image that people portrait along with it...
However having a friend who has a new M3 SMGII can say that is fast, very fast but It just did'nt seem right to be giving it fall revs all the while without it felling a little uncomfortable, it's hard to explain it just did'nt feel like this was the correct way to drive the car. The Type R I have just seems to fell right sliding out of corners and knocking on 7500rpm and snicking the next gear popping in and out gaps in trafic...
Would I have a 22B or an M3... depends, if I was going to use it sparringly then the 22B every time if I was doing 20-30k a year then the M3, both have draw backs and both have advantages, thinking about it though the M3 has a lot more than 22B, I live out in the sticks and and there are more M3's around here than there are any make of scoobies... M3 fabulous car just pity about the image that people portrait along with it...
07 January 2003, 11:29 PM
#54
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johnfelstead wrote:
>> 22B is a brilliant car on track, with its DCCD set to open
>> it's very much a match for an M3 handling charicteristics
>> wise. If it rains then just wind the DCCD to a higher
>> locking ratio and watch the M3 disapear in your rear
>> view mirror.
John, just wondering but what is the best time achieved with 22B on the Nurburgring (with its DCCD set to open)?
>> 22B is a brilliant car on track, with its DCCD set to open
>> it's very much a match for an M3 handling charicteristics
>> wise. If it rains then just wind the DCCD to a higher
>> locking ratio and watch the M3 disapear in your rear
>> view mirror.
John, just wondering but what is the best time achieved with 22B on the Nurburgring (with its DCCD set to open)?
07 January 2003, 11:43 PM
#55
dont even know if a time has ever been set for the 22B?
It's going to be about the same as my RA, the cars mechanically are almost identical. I would think i could get a standard 22B round in about 8 mins 20. Thats me though, a real expert with 1000's of laps would be faster.
I know i can lap as quickly as a standard M5 with a more experienced driver. Does that help?
It's going to be about the same as my RA, the cars mechanically are almost identical. I would think i could get a standard 22B round in about 8 mins 20. Thats me though, a real expert with 1000's of laps would be faster.
I know i can lap as quickly as a standard M5 with a more experienced driver. Does that help?
07 January 2003, 11:56 PM
#57
I am refering to the ring taxi, yes. want to see a video. LOL
That time would be a full lap on R spec tyres pushing it very hard. I can lap 8:40 full laps all day in my RA on normal road tyres with plenty in reserve and 4 passengers.
LOLThat time would be a full lap on R spec tyres pushing it very hard. I can lap 8:40 full laps all day in my RA on normal road tyres with plenty in reserve and 4 passengers.
08 January 2003, 12:02 AM
#58
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Sure...I love Ring videos...
What's the download location?
You do realize Sabine isnt pushing 100% dont you?
Well - if your RA is anything like my WRX you wont be able to lap 8'40 all day long...very regular stops for petrol are in order.
What's the download location?
You do realize Sabine isnt pushing 100% dont you?
Well - if your RA is anything like my WRX you wont be able to lap 8'40 all day long...very regular stops for petrol are in order.
08 January 2003, 01:03 AM
#59
yep, neither am I.
The other guy was in the wet though, he was seriously pissed off when i followed him for a lap, i pissed myself when he parked up and just stared at my car trying to work it out.
videos
RearViewCam
HelmetCam
FrontBumperCam
RoofCam
Onboard1
Onboard2
The other guy was in the wet though, he was seriously pissed off when i followed him for a lap, i pissed myself when he parked up and just stared at my car trying to work it out.
videos
RearViewCam
HelmetCam
FrontBumperCam
RoofCam
Onboard1
Onboard2