wrapping kids in cotton wool
08 January 2003, 11:59 PM
#31
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The kids won't be sitting wet in class if they were dressed appropriately. The class should be well heated too if it's snowing outside.
Snowball fights in the playground didn't do me any harm... and my parents never had to complain.
Snowball fights in the playground didn't do me any harm... and my parents never had to complain.
09 January 2003, 12:02 AM
#32
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Tiggs as a parent you should send them to school wrapped up warm then. When I was a lad (here we go 
) my mum would send me to school on snow days well wrapped up. I'd have winter jacket, waterproofs, gloves, scarf, etc. We used to go mental for an hour at lunch time having huge fights and then their would be the stale smell of all the gloves drying on the radiators. Thanks to the extensive wrapping we were dry and warm and would work hard to try and kill time until the bell to go home....then we fight again
) my mum would send me to school on snow days well wrapped up. I'd have winter jacket, waterproofs, gloves, scarf, etc. We used to go mental for an hour at lunch time having huge fights and then their would be the stale smell of all the gloves drying on the radiators. Thanks to the extensive wrapping we were dry and warm and would work hard to try and kill time until the bell to go home....then we fight again
09 January 2003, 12:06 AM
#33
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having just seen the scaletrix post on general it seems many ppl here are suffeing from "Scaletrikyitus"
this is an illness that effect ppl in their mid 20's, they are now old enough to be able to look back on their younger years and no longer remember the ****e, however, they are not yet mature enough to realise that it was not all good. as a result they demand that kids engage in snowball fights and tell the world that slot cars are the coolest thing ever.
the only cure is to approach 30 when you realise that slot cars are in fact..........awful! they have been replaced by playstations for a reason! you also recall that snowballs are wet and hurt and not good for school playgrounds.
this is an illness that effect ppl in their mid 20's, they are now old enough to be able to look back on their younger years and no longer remember the ****e, however, they are not yet mature enough to realise that it was not all good. as a result they demand that kids engage in snowball fights and tell the world that slot cars are the coolest thing ever.
the only cure is to approach 30 when you realise that slot cars are in fact..........awful! they have been replaced by playstations for a reason! you also recall that snowballs are wet and hurt and not good for school playgrounds.
09 January 2003, 12:07 AM
#34
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when a Head master sits down and has a conversation that prob starts like this "ok, last year the kids got wet, the school got wet, work suffered, we had 4 minor injuries and 5 parent complaints...."
I think there are a few life lessons to be learn't from this,
1)If you partake in these actions, you have to live with the consequences - sitting in wet clothes
2)kids get minor injuries all the time
3)work suffered - how often do kids get to play in the snow in this country ?, I bet it could be counted on 1 hand each year (what about all of the in service days the teachers take to extend their holidays)
4)5 parents complained - presumably with the same PC attitude about real lessons in life (Are they hoping for a lawsuit?)
I bet the same headmaster would think nothing of sending the same kids out in the p!ssing rain on a 4 mile cross country run.
If the kids get hurt playing, chances are because of a bullying element in the playground which the bullys play up on in contact environments. Most teachers turn a blind eye to it though.
09 January 2003, 12:20 AM
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Well since your getting specific tiggs you should know that I don't suffer from this disorder to which you refer. Most of the stuff I'm saying is stuff I wished I'd done 'when I was a lad' I can look back and see that I didn't enjoy my childhood as much as I could and I spent a lot of it sitting in front of crappy tv when I could have been playing football or building a den, go-kart, etc. My generation was the start of the useless vegitables that are overwieght, can't kick a ball straight and have square eyes!
I spent a lot of it living in fear of the bullies that were smaller and weaker than me and who subsequently bullied me from primary 4 (cause I was the new boy) through till 4th year. At first I wouldn't react cause my mum foolishly told me 'never to hit anyone ever' and after I'd adopted that policy I was easy meat. Thereafter, it was intimidation that kept me at bay. If I could go back I'd go up to the lead bully at an early age, brake his nose of the desk, no-doubt get suspended for a while and some lines but it would have been worth it to have my freedom through out high school. My kids will be told to hit anyone back that hits them 3 times as hard. But if my kid hits first their playstation/x-box/whatever will be sold and they will be grounded for two weeks without food!
I spent a lot of it living in fear of the bullies that were smaller and weaker than me and who subsequently bullied me from primary 4 (cause I was the new boy) through till 4th year. At first I wouldn't react cause my mum foolishly told me 'never to hit anyone ever' and after I'd adopted that policy I was easy meat. Thereafter, it was intimidation that kept me at bay. If I could go back I'd go up to the lead bully at an early age, brake his nose of the desk, no-doubt get suspended for a while and some lines but it would have been worth it to have my freedom through out high school. My kids will be told to hit anyone back that hits them 3 times as hard. But if my kid hits first their playstation/x-box/whatever will be sold and they will be grounded for two weeks without food!
09 January 2003, 12:30 AM
#40
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Point well made Saxo boy,
There are both good and bad things that go along with being a kid. Fortunately snowball fights, building tree huts, rope swings etc are some of the good things. I remember them fondly myself.
As for it being dangerous.... well yes it can be ...
I bloke several bones, loads of skint knees and countless ruined clothes (that i got a bo11ocking for) but i'm still here and none the worse for it.
Kids bounce!!
There are both good and bad things that go along with being a kid. Fortunately snowball fights, building tree huts, rope swings etc are some of the good things. I remember them fondly myself.
As for it being dangerous.... well yes it can be ...
I bloke several bones, loads of skint knees and countless ruined clothes (that i got a bo11ocking for) but i'm still here and none the worse for it.
Kids bounce!!
09 January 2003, 12:55 AM
#41
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I think there are a few life lessons to be learn't from this,
1)If you partake in these actions, you have to live with the consequences - sitting in wet clothes
2)kids get minor injuries all the time
3)work suffered - how often do kids get to play in the snow in this country ?, I bet it could be counted on 1 hand each year (what about all of the in service days the teachers take to extend their holidays)
4)5 parents complained - presumably with the same PC attitude about real lessons in life (Are they hoping for a lawsuit?)
I bet the same headmaster would think nothing of sending the same kids out in the p!ssing rain on a 4 mile cross country run.
If the kids get hurt playing, chances are because of a bullying element in the playground which the bullys play up on in contact environments. Most teachers turn a blind eye to it though.
well said Drunknorgy,i agree with all that
1)If you partake in these actions, you have to live with the consequences - sitting in wet clothes
2)kids get minor injuries all the time
3)work suffered - how often do kids get to play in the snow in this country ?, I bet it could be counted on 1 hand each year (what about all of the in service days the teachers take to extend their holidays)
4)5 parents complained - presumably with the same PC attitude about real lessons in life (Are they hoping for a lawsuit?)
I bet the same headmaster would think nothing of sending the same kids out in the p!ssing rain on a 4 mile cross country run.
If the kids get hurt playing, chances are because of a bullying element in the playground which the bullys play up on in contact environments. Most teachers turn a blind eye to it though.
well said Drunknorgy,i agree with all that
09 January 2003, 08:15 AM
#42
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When I was younger, a friend and I used to womble down the road to the ditch, jump in and walk the length of the village in waist deep water (probably only knee deep to an adult... ) Yes we got wet, yes we had fun, no it didn't harm us.
We had snowball fights at school - we wore gloves, scarves thick coats and hats. When we came in, we divested all of those and sat in warm dry clothing throughout the rest of the day.
Children need to live, need to experiment, need to learn. Sitting them down and protecting them from everything under the sun is worse in the long run. How often are we hearing now that homes that are surgically cleaned have children more likely to suffer from asthma, children that are bathed on the hour every hour more likely to suffer from eczema.
We were allowed to get dirty as children, if we fell over, it got kissed better, a plaster put on and off we went again.
) Yes we got wet, yes we had fun, no it didn't harm us.We had snowball fights at school - we wore gloves, scarves thick coats and hats. When we came in, we divested all of those and sat in warm dry clothing throughout the rest of the day.
Children need to live, need to experiment, need to learn. Sitting them down and protecting them from everything under the sun is worse in the long run. How often are we hearing now that homes that are surgically cleaned have children more likely to suffer from asthma, children that are bathed on the hour every hour more likely to suffer from eczema.
We were allowed to get dirty as children, if we fell over, it got kissed better, a plaster put on and off we went again.
09 January 2003, 09:10 AM
#43
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Its called natural selection and even with all your rules some of the kids will be winners and some will unfortunately be life's losers
Ok, so maybe no food for two weeks is a little ott but I hope you see my point. I would not tollerate a child of mines bullying another kid because I know what its like to be on the receiving end!!
I think what we seem to forget is that young children and adults (us) learn in different ways. I love speed and have been sorely tempted to buy a superbike for some mental acceleration. However, anytime I've sat down and thought about it I've concluded that I'm the sort of person that would push a bike too far, that we have poor weather and road surfaced where I live, that I have no bike riding knowledge and no bike riding friends experience to draw on. For this reason I can see that the dangers are too great and therefore choose not to get involved with superbikes. This danger was realised, assessed and acted (or rather inacted) upon within the comfort of my own home. Kids don't think like that! Kids do something, it hurts or they get into trouble from it and then they learn! They don't sit down and think things through like an adult would.
Of course you should always try to ensure your childs safety at all times but within reason, IMO you shouldn't mollycodle (spelt as it sounds?!) but leave them to build their knowledge and understanding of the world through trial and error. No doubt they will stumble a little along the way.....but that is what life is all about
09 January 2003, 09:55 AM
#44
Not really interested in this thread, but have two points to make:
1. Most snowballing in most schools was/is banned not to "protect" the kids, but for one reason only: to avoid broken windows! These cost good money schools can't now afford, (they have to pay for all repairs out of their global budget), and a busted window in a classroom REALLY is a disruption to learning. Not to mention the time and effort that has to go into investigating who's responsible, trying to punish them, and trying to get parents to cough up part of the cost. No, headTEACHERS can do without those probs.
2. DRUNKENORGY,and dbm: the so-called training days that you say teachers use to extend their holidays were actually taken from teacher's holiday allowance in 1988 by legislation brought in by Kenneth Baker. They are almost universally known as "Baker days", and loathed by most teachers. They were introduced as teachers used to go into schools on the last day of their holidays, (how many other professions do that?), to prepare for the new term, have meetings, get classrooms ready etc. At the time, teachers had withdrawn their goodwill, as they were in dispute with Maggies bullies, and were refusing to do this. The so-called '88 education act, also introduced a legal minimum number of hours a teacher must work per year, but NO MAXIMUM!!, and laid down how many days per year the schools MUST open. At the same time, it took away teachers rights to bargain for pay increases/changes to working conditions. And these changes STILL STAND TODAY!
B4 anyone asks, no, I'm not a teacher. I COULDN'T do the job! And how many of you would be where you are today without YOUR teacher's help??
Alcazar
1. Most snowballing in most schools was/is banned not to "protect" the kids, but for one reason only: to avoid broken windows! These cost good money schools can't now afford, (they have to pay for all repairs out of their global budget), and a busted window in a classroom REALLY is a disruption to learning. Not to mention the time and effort that has to go into investigating who's responsible, trying to punish them, and trying to get parents to cough up part of the cost. No, headTEACHERS can do without those probs.
2. DRUNKENORGY,and dbm: the so-called training days that you say teachers use to extend their holidays were actually taken from teacher's holiday allowance in 1988 by legislation brought in by Kenneth Baker. They are almost universally known as "Baker days", and loathed by most teachers. They were introduced as teachers used to go into schools on the last day of their holidays, (how many other professions do that?), to prepare for the new term, have meetings, get classrooms ready etc. At the time, teachers had withdrawn their goodwill, as they were in dispute with Maggies bullies, and were refusing to do this. The so-called '88 education act, also introduced a legal minimum number of hours a teacher must work per year, but NO MAXIMUM!!, and laid down how many days per year the schools MUST open. At the same time, it took away teachers rights to bargain for pay increases/changes to working conditions. And these changes STILL STAND TODAY!
B4 anyone asks, no, I'm not a teacher. I COULDN'T do the job! And how many of you would be where you are today without YOUR teacher's help??
Alcazar
09 January 2003, 09:55 AM
#45
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Hands up if you've lost an eye to a snowball.
Hands up if you or anyone you know has had an arm broken by a swan.
I got up to all sorts when I was younger, some of the highlights being getting my finger stuck in an air rifle, age 5 having mi collar bone broken playing tig, age 6, staying out all night age 14
I've made it this far, age 25 and 3/4 without being killed, sued or bringing legal action
Oh yeah, if we had any feckin snow I'd be right out there with the best of em making snowballs and snow men
Hands up if you or anyone you know has had an arm broken by a swan.
I got up to all sorts when I was younger, some of the highlights being getting my finger stuck in an air rifle, age 5
having mi collar bone broken playing tig, age 6, staying out all night age 14I've made it this far, age 25 and 3/4 without being killed, sued or bringing legal action
Oh yeah, if we had any feckin snow I'd be right out there with the best of em making snowballs and snow men
09 January 2003, 11:41 AM
#46
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the so-called training days that you say teachers use to extend their holidays were actually taken from teacher's holiday allowance in 1988 by legislation brought in by Kenneth Baker.
The PC bunch have spoilt it for the teachers and tied their hands behind their backs on the discipline front. The kids know the law and if they want to disrupt a class with impunity, have no trouble in doing this. They then spoil it for the rest of the class. A broken window can be taped up but a disrupted class is a lesson lost. IMHO the people in the teaching profession who call the shots didn't have their education buggered up in this way (which is why they managed to get the grades to go to UNI) and don't really see what effect a disruptive pupil has on the other kids grades.
PS I didn't get 1 O-level for the above reasons but manage to do a technical job (and scored 18 out of 25 on the Guardian IQ test in the other thread(its been a long time since I did one of those
)
09 January 2003, 11:58 AM
#47
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My sister is a Deputy Head so i asked her whether she would let them throw snowballs.She said no.To much hassle off parents,caretaker,kids with no gloves etc, and kids would be soaking wet.So i had a row.I said they wouldn't be soaking wet,they would be mildly damp.And its easy to keep the kids away from windows and as for parents they could have written a letter asking for the kid to be kept in.If they didn't they are fair targets!! (just kidding!)
nevermind.I want my kid to have a rounded education,not strangled in PC bull****.
nevermind.I want my kid to have a rounded education,not strangled in PC bull****.
09 January 2003, 12:22 PM
#48
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Well you learn something new everyday! I always wondered why they called them Baker days!!! cheers Alcazar
P.S I was at school in the 70's and early 80's we used to have some wicked snowball fights, we also did rugby and cross country in the winter, snow, rain etc and it never hurt me. Also another cool past time which we endulged in which usualy resulted in detention was fir cone fights, now they did hurt when you copped one in the ear
P.S I was at school in the 70's and early 80's we used to have some wicked snowball fights, we also did rugby and cross country in the winter, snow, rain etc and it never hurt me. Also another cool past time which we endulged in which usualy resulted in detention was fir cone fights, now they did hurt when you copped one in the ear
09 January 2003, 12:35 PM
#50
Hmmmm yes, holidays for teachers.
One of the only professions that NEVER get to choose their holidays.
The only one where they ALWAYS have to be on holiday at peak times.
Most teachers I know of spend all, or part of every half term either in school, or on in-service training courses.
As for the Baker days being when the rest of the country goes back to work, doesn't that show that the rest of the country is now getting almost the same holidays as teachers?:
Seriously though, I refer you to point one above: teachers get NO say in their holiday dates, they are set up to 2 years in advance by a faceless beaurocrat, no appeal! Thus, they also have no say in the training days, it's a legal requirement to have at least on of the 5 allocated at the start of each new term, see my previous post for why.
Just as an aside, as regards holiday dates, said beaurocrat had it organised that schools here broke up TWICE running on a monday!!!
All the school's complaints fell on deaf ears, but when the attendance figures were published for those two mondays, it was the schools' fault!
The other two Baker days are at the discretion of head/governors/staff, but are usually worked out with other local schools to cut disruption, so that little Johnny is not off one day, and bigger Julie the next. Remember, schools are only doing what government TELL them. Legislation is so tight now, that NO OTHER minister has a bigger range of powers than the minister for education. Fact!
Alcazar
One of the only professions that NEVER get to choose their holidays.
The only one where they ALWAYS have to be on holiday at peak times.
Most teachers I know of spend all, or part of every half term either in school, or on in-service training courses.
As for the Baker days being when the rest of the country goes back to work, doesn't that show that the rest of the country is now getting almost the same holidays as teachers?
:Seriously though, I refer you to point one above: teachers get NO say in their holiday dates, they are set up to 2 years in advance by a faceless beaurocrat, no appeal! Thus, they also have no say in the training days, it's a legal requirement to have at least on of the 5 allocated at the start of each new term, see my previous post for why.
Just as an aside, as regards holiday dates, said beaurocrat had it organised that schools here broke up TWICE running on a monday!!!
All the school's complaints fell on deaf ears, but when the attendance figures were published for those two mondays, it was the schools' fault! The other two Baker days are at the discretion of head/governors/staff, but are usually worked out with other local schools to cut disruption, so that little Johnny is not off one day, and bigger Julie the next. Remember, schools are only doing what government TELL them. Legislation is so tight now, that NO OTHER minister has a bigger range of powers than the minister for education. Fact!
Alcazar
09 January 2003, 12:37 PM
#51
the only cure is to approach 30 when you realise that slot cars are in fact..........awful!
Slotcars are fantastic. I can't wait for my kids to be old enough so i can my myself, sorry them, some slot car madness.
Paul
09 January 2003, 12:52 PM
#52
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Seriously, I have 1 week off at half term on the spring bank holiday, and 2 weeks off at the end of July/begining of August. My Neighbours a teacher and spends most of his holidays, Either in bed or down the pub. Also my eldest daughters friend spends 1 month in the summer every year in France because her parents are teachers. You won't convince me that teachers are hard done by with holidays. I see too much evidence to say otherwise
09 January 2003, 01:04 PM
#54
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They were introduced as teachers used to go into schools on the last day of their holidays, (how many other professions do that?
which is precisiely why I spend the evening before I go back after a week off checking my mail so I know If I'm working into a crisis the next Morning. All my colleagues do the same.Some Teachers work hard. Lots don't.
Deano
09 January 2003, 01:08 PM
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Can't blame the schools as I'm sure it is the litigation, but it is total rubbish.
Tiggs the reason to play snowballs is because it's fun. Maybe a concept that seems to be lost these days, but we are on this planet for such a very short time and we should look to enjoy every moment of it. And the best time to have fun is as a kid, when all the adult issues don't get in the way. Kids are made to grow up far too quickly these days.
My youngest daughter is 8 and she is still playing with dolls, thank you for a child who isn't behaving like a 16 year old at 8!!
On a final point I'm surprised any schools that had had more than one flake of snow were open. Normal policy is to send all the kids home so the teachers can get home and not get held up in the snow.
Oh and while I'm on my soap box... teachers... 6 weeks in the summer, 2 weeks at Christmas, 2 weeks at Easter, 3 weeks of half terms, bank holidays that are outside of these weeks. Thats 13 weeks. I have kids so I am also limited to these weeks. Problem is I have to compete to take the holiday with 20 other people, so if I get 1 day off at Christmas I'm lucky.
That said we have just moved our children to a "Beacon" school. And I have to say the level of teaching is outstanding and I can't heap enough praise on the teachers. But they are all prepared to go that bit further than the teachers we have been used to.
Dave
Tiggs the reason to play snowballs is because it's fun. Maybe a concept that seems to be lost these days, but we are on this planet for such a very short time and we should look to enjoy every moment of it. And the best time to have fun is as a kid, when all the adult issues don't get in the way. Kids are made to grow up far too quickly these days.
My youngest daughter is 8 and she is still playing with dolls, thank you for a child who isn't behaving like a 16 year old at 8!!
On a final point I'm surprised any schools that had had more than one flake of snow were open. Normal policy is to send all the kids home so the teachers can get home and not get held up in the snow.
Oh and while I'm on my soap box... teachers... 6 weeks in the summer, 2 weeks at Christmas, 2 weeks at Easter, 3 weeks of half terms, bank holidays that are outside of these weeks. Thats 13 weeks. I have kids so I am also limited to these weeks. Problem is I have to compete to take the holiday with 20 other people, so if I get 1 day off at Christmas I'm lucky.
That said we have just moved our children to a "Beacon" school. And I have to say the level of teaching is outstanding and I can't heap enough praise on the teachers. But they are all prepared to go that bit further than the teachers we have been used to.
Dave
09 January 2003, 01:09 PM
#57
Never said they were hard done by m8, and wouldn't even try to convince you.
:
Just trying to put another point of view, and one many people don't see.
Wife is a local headteacher. Goes out at 0720 every morning, drives 15 miles to work, and I'm lucky if I see her b4 1830.
Some days she comes home starving as she hasn't even had time for lunch- that seems to be when everyone wants to ask her for help. And school lunches are no longer one of a teacher's perks: they cost AT LEAST double what the kids pay.
When she does eventually get home, she works for at least 3 hours a night on the laptop.
And she's a bl**dy good head- she was ASKED by the local LEA to take on this school.
Yes, she goes to France in Summer, but other holidays are spent in the school, usually with me doing oddjobs for free, to save the school money to spend on books, teachers etc.
And if she does fancy a few days away, she ends up paying LOTS: last year she fancied a long weekend at Centre Park. It was advertised prices starting at about £100. When she looked into it, it would have been nearer £400 for her-peak time, you see.
Not getting at you m8, but you need both sides of the story.
Alcazar
:Just trying to put another point of view, and one many people don't see.
Wife is a local headteacher. Goes out at 0720 every morning, drives 15 miles to work, and I'm lucky if I see her b4 1830.
Some days she comes home starving as she hasn't even had time for lunch- that seems to be when everyone wants to ask her for help. And school lunches are no longer one of a teacher's perks: they cost AT LEAST double what the kids pay.
When she does eventually get home, she works for at least 3 hours a night on the laptop.
And she's a bl**dy good head- she was ASKED by the local LEA to take on this school.
Yes, she goes to France in Summer, but other holidays are spent in the school, usually with me doing oddjobs for free, to save the school money to spend on books, teachers etc.
And if she does fancy a few days away, she ends up paying LOTS: last year she fancied a long weekend at Centre Park. It was advertised prices starting at about £100. When she looked into it, it would have been nearer £400 for her-peak time, you see.
Not getting at you m8, but you need both sides of the story.
Alcazar
09 January 2003, 01:26 PM
#58
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Hmmmm yes, holidays for teachers.
One of the only professions that NEVER get to choose their holidays.
The only one where they ALWAYS have to be on holiday at peak times.
I've kept out of this one so far but I'm sorry mate. that is bollox.
Any responsible parent will not take their kid out of school just for a holiday, so they too are stuck with peak times.
<hint: that's why it's peak time>
One of the only professions that NEVER get to choose their holidays.
The only one where they ALWAYS have to be on holiday at peak times.
I've kept out of this one so far but I'm sorry mate. that is bollox.
Any responsible parent will not take their kid out of school just for a holiday, so they too are stuck with peak times.
<hint: that's why it's peak time>