max speed

yes it has and that is all we can say as it has taken quite a long time to develop. sorry i cant be more helpfull but you know how it is. my freind who has devoloped this is being head hunted by m-sport so you can see we are ahead!!!

johnfelstead

arent you talking about the TEG/Townend garage active centre diff controller? If you are, then that is nothing like this system. I take it you arent running GroupN as that would be illegal having not been homologated.

max speed

no its not townends its mine.
and i have been using it on a club car i have for quite a while so thats all i can say im not saying prodrives products are bad just that i have a similar device we have been building imprezas for 9 years so we have an r&d programm which is on
going . thats me done on here thanks for the time, maxspeed

ex-webby

sounds excellent

Will look forward to seeing it, please let us know.

All the best

Simon

PhilBennett

Prodrive & £1500 - That almost sounds mutually exclusive!!

Would be interesting to see what sensors they use given the ones used in motorsport are (in road car timescales) pretty unreliable.

One thing though - I know the actual execution might be different but to all intents and purpose it acts like Active Yaw control on an Evo.

PhilBennett

Oh and I don't agree with the way it is reasoned that "modern" FWD & AWD cars display passive oversteer.

In the case of an Impreza they most certainly understeer entry to mid unless you "pitch in", "give it a bung", "turn in on the brakes" - however you like to term it; which most certainly isn't "passive".

Surely any true passive activity is a function of geometry and diff action - and given 99% of FWD road cars don't have a locking diff - that means geometry is the biggest influence.

ex-webby

Agree totally with Phil on the road cars thing.

No roadcars that I know of exhibit *true* passive oversteer.

However.. on the AYC.. it isn't the same and acts completely differently.

The sensors used for abs are reliable for use in road cars.

Cheers

Simon

ex-webby

ps you should obviously include springs, dampers, roll-bars, etc in your list of what causes passive vehicle dynamics.

pps nice to hear from you

ex-webby

I've just re-read what Damian wrote about the passive oversteer thing..

what I think he's saying is that the modern cars are designed such that (to get them sideways, etc) you need to hurl them in to bends at high speed, rather than the old RWD (probably safer) technique of slow in, power oversteer out.

In FWD & 4WD adding power *tends* to create understeer, where as lifting *tends* to create oversteer.

I think this is what he meant, rather than the cars being set-up for passive oversteer.

I know Damian quite well and he certainly knows his stuff, so would not have meant that the chassis is set-up for passive oversteer.

Cheers

Simon

PhilBennett

Hi Simon - good to debate these things.

Yeah sure bars, dampers, springs, ride height, rake, aero, tyres etc, etc, etc, etc but for the sake of simplicity you take my point.

This system does sound really interesting but I think that Damian's comments were misleading when he talks of (his words) the new generation FWD and 4WD cars handling characteristics. Whilst it is a nice story I'd like to think he didn't believe it.

I don't know of a single car that oversteers in (again to use Damians words) a passive state. His analagy of lifting mid-corner and having a big moment is going to be true of any car - regardless of which wheel is being driven because the "moment" is a result of weight transfer and therefore not specific to FWD/4WD cars.

Neither do I relate to this notion that RWD cars are slow in, fast out. Since when did you last struggle to carry, speed entry to mid, in say a BMW M3 or perhaps a Caterham?

I'm sure he is a great engineer and that's why I can't believe his quote!!!

ex-webby

Hi Mate

I completely agree with what you are saying (as you can see from my first reply to you).. what has happened though is that we got the wrong end of the stick.

He is not saying the RWD cars are slow in fast out as a car.. he's saying that RWD cars can be FUN when driven slow in fast out, as you can squeeze the throttle and get it sideways at slow speeds. Where as the 4WD fun comes from throwing it in fast and dealing with it through the bend.

Obviously the first is safer for the majority, especially if you were to ever do this kind of thing on the road.

All the best

Simon

ex-webby

PS.. (again).. I would just like to say (on behalf of all of us - i would think) well done for giving the pillock faking it such a hard time and telling him straight!

PhilBennett

Yeah it was a great shame Phil Deane wasted the opportunity.

Re: handling comments - Fair enough no point in making a mountain out of it but I know what I read!! :-)

I don't want to be rude to Damien but I just think Prodrive are creating stories to fit their product. Any car FWD, 4WD, RWD can be pitched into oversteer at the corner entry, the reason the Impreza (or UK types do before John shows his Type-R crossed up!)struggles more than most is because driven neatly it has terrible understeer - forcing you to get more aggressive behind the wheel.

johnfelstead

would i ever? LOL

ex-webby

Hi Phil

This is exactly what Damian is saying. That you have to be very agressive with modern FWD / 4WD cars in order to get them unstuck. Where as RWD cars are much easier to get sideways at slow corner entry speeds.

Cheers

Simon

Des

How about...

If God was your co-driver - Prodrive ATD

Cheers

Simon R

Very interesting reading guys

On a similar note, I've always wondered why no one's made/or what's involved, in having an electronic control unit that could be integrated on a Type-R's manually controlled centre diff to give both manual and automatic control

I understand that additional sensors would probably be required

Any takers?

AJbaseBloke

Hmmm, Simon R, that sounds like DCCD-A to me...

Simon R

So we just need a 3rd party to develop a unit then

ids

IFAIK Prodrive already do for their GpN rally cars. They are essentially semi-active (well as much as they can be with GpN) - not sure how they get them thru scruitineering.

Im guessing they can use 'sensors' such as Handbrake, Brake light switch, Throttle to perform some diff setting changes. ANyone know any more...

However as I'm sure we all know - Gp N is far more prone to 'ahhem' rule interprotation

Ids

Vulnax1

Any more news since these posts?

V