Popeye P1

Quote 'But in my opinion the biggest danger is not us losing 'our' jobs to 'them', or marauding Kosovan males hassling girls on the street - '

So letting them jump the queue in housing and giving jobs over British people won't create resentment??? How naive you really are??
As for Kosovan males hassling girls, yes I resent that. If you're friend can been gangraped by 3 of them , wouldn't you? Alot of these males think its they're god given right to harass women and can't take no for an answer. Its just in their culture- try visiting Turkey and see how their male population act towards women??

Mr evolution

Basically either put up or shut up in my opinion the asylum seekers here awaiting processing legally could be easily taken care of with better management by the government but while sink estates in Manchester and Middlesborogh sit half empty with houses almost unsellable due to the crime English low life scum bring to the area the asylum seekers are living in Four bedroom detached houses in nice areas. I rented a four bed house for one year to the council supplied the occupants with enough food for a good breakfast every day and got paid 45k for the years rent as it was all based on hotel rates. This might make you sick as it was your tax money but its still cheaper than the 70 pounds a night my dad gets offerd to put them up in his luxury hotel (he refuses on principal btw) and cheaper than the rates charged by my uncle in London who invested a whole seperate hotel just for asylum seekers. I don't blame people for taking what is being given to them by Tony Blair but this government was elected by the people and is supported by peoples tax contributions so if you don't like it stop paying tax (like i have btw) and vote in better leadership. If you don't like any of the leadership candidates available run yourself thats democracy don't sit there saying the asylum situation is the asylum seekers fault or that its the governments fault when you all do **** all about the situation yourselves.

Dave T-S

As I posted on another thread.....

It's quite simple. On October 2, 2000 our dear Labour government incorporated the Eurpoean Convention on Human Rights into British law.

From that day we gave away effective control of our borders.

It's no use saying "send them back" because now they have a legal right to be here, unless there is a very good reason to chuck them out, and the government do not have the guts to chuck bogus asylum seekers out as they are paranoid about the "R" word - racism.

We drove through the Eurotunnel a couple of weeks ago. On the English side, we were pulled aside, the car was searched - including taking swabs of the steering wheel, door handles etc. On the French side coming back - nothing - just waved us through!

The only way we can get out of this mess is to repeal the European Comminities Act 1972 that led us in in the first place.

Unfortunately it will take more innocent police killed or the like to make the government realise the future ghetto they are turning this country into.

camk

Tractor,
You have hit the nail on the head, IMHO the biggest threat to UK society today is that much of its thinking is done in Newspaper Editorial rooms, then people accept it as fact when they read it.
I think currently we are in an unprecedented period of influence my the media. My personal view is that there will be a backlash at some point but it will take some more time.
Look at the current 'issues' Firemen,Asylum Seekers and Footballer gambling habits. All of which are sensationalized beyond the truth. If anyone has ever read a report in the press on something they were direcly and closely involved in the truth is only about 20% of what's written. The rest is editorial.
**** Germany exploited mass Governmental propoganda on a previously unseen scale, the results were a nation of poor(financially) individuals was galvanised behind a non existant enemy, on whom the blame for their situation was blamed.
I think the biggest issue we have today in the UK is that the quality of debate is crap and the current eletoral system does not force it due to large majority swings between the 2 main parties. Therefore people take their knowledge of the 'issues' from the most available source, newspapers and TV.

Regards
Cammy

As some clown said earlier, it was on Teletext so it must be true...


[Edited by camk - 1/21/2003 1:25:11 PM]

Claudius

All of the above brings us back to the basic problem of who decides and who doesnt. In a democracy, the government decides whatever they want until the next election. You can then choose the other party, who will decide whatever they want. It will make no difference whatsoever who you vote for. As a conclusion: democracy isnt a good system of governing a country.

Why is it so annoying to you people that you get immigrants, speed limits, tax, etc.? Because of these things themselves? I dont think so; what annoys you so much is that you are led to believe that YOU DECIDE when in fact you dont. And you know what you can do about it? Jack shiat.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] HEY! That "clown" was me, and what I was on about was also on TV, in 2 dailies, and in the local paper in Derby where it was reported to me by a Niece at Uni there!
So B*llox to you!:
Alcazar

StiShrek

freedom of speech mr evolution like you yourself have enjoyed.

BTW you dont half speak a load of crap.

lol

StiShrek

The only problem in this world is over-population.

That is why Claudius. None of your philosophical BS.

You live in England and dont see?????????

camk

If I'd known it was on TV and in 2 Newspapers then I'd have known it was true . I read in a newspaper once that crappy editors read Teletext and write space filler stories up using whats in Teletext(you can usually spot it as its normally very regional news in a National paper), unfortunately not backed up by a TV report so believe it if you will.....

[Edited by camk - 1/21/2003 1:39:47 PM]

TelBoy

StiShrek, he always has done.

Don't even ask his views on 09/11. You just don't want to know.

Claudius

STIshrek,

there's space for 10 billion people on this planet. Overpopulation isnt an issue yet. Poverty and oppression is.

TelBoy

IMO, political correctness is the biggest single problem we face.

Politicians can't admit it, or they don't get elected.

Simple.

Popeye P1

'there's space for 10 billion people on this planet. Overpopulation isnt an issue yet. '

And thats why the Chinese have one kid polices is it Claudius?? Another 10 billion would mean even more poverty and oppression!!!

I really glad I haven't read you're views on 9/11.

Claudius

Popeye, you sound really upset. Why is that? Something I said?

Hey, I said 10 billion, not ANOTHER 10 billion. That's what I read somewhere and believe to be about right. The Chinese population is over a billion and if they dont restrict births, then they will go very high, probably two billion by 2005 or 2006 or whatever. Which would mean the 10 billion limit will be reached soon, say by 2040 or 2050. Which doesnt contradict anything I said, does it?

[Edited by Claudius - 1/21/2003 2:09:56 PM]

moses

hello dear claude i is back my one off punk race bros and i says **** the racists pls suckie my ding dong

StiShrek

You are about as racist as they come Moses lol.

StiShrek

'there's space for 10 billion people on this planet. Overpopulation isnt an issue yet. Poverty and oppression is.'

I weep when i hear crap like this. In an ideal world Claude you muppet that is true. This world aint ideal so cannot sustain that number. Why do so many starve.

The world will never be ideal so you have contradicted yourself bigtime.

Go back to the MLR and stop jumping on the 'racist' bandwagon my friend.

bros2

The figures I’m about to quote are from the Office of National Statistics, which, although a Government organisation, is widely respected for the accuracy and independence of their data (unlike, say, ImmigrationWatch.com, who have a clear political agenda, regardless of statements to the contrary). The information relates to 2001, the latest year for which data is available. The research information was published on 26 September 2002.

• 119,015 initial decisions were made on asylum applications in 2001
• Of these 12,610 were granted asylum
• 21,175 were not given asylum but were given exceptional leave to remain. These, essentially, were the economic migrants we hear so much about.
• There were then 74,365 appeals made against the decision made, leading to a further 8,155 persons being granted leave to stay, either on asylum or economic grounds.

These are the facts. In 2001, a total of 119,015 people applied for asylum, of whom 41,940 were given permission to remain. Interestingly, the split between refugees and economic migrants is 50:50. What this says to me is that we’ve taken the genuine refugees, and also taken all the people who can prove that they have a skill, profession, or the financial wherewithal to make a success of living in this country.

Please, can we try to get the facts right on this issue. There are those who would look at 42,000 new immigrants with horror, and others such as myself who think it’s not a problem, but let’s at least talk about the same numbers.

Oh, and to quote the rather marvellous Public Enemy, don't believe the hype.

Bros

DJ Dunk

iTrader: (5)

I live in Sittingbourne, which was on BBC News last night because a hotel here is being turned into an immigrants asylum [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

The people here are not amused. The hotel seller knew nothing about who it was being sold to or for. The local council were also kept in the dark.

Word on the street gives the place 24hrs before it gets burned to a cinder.

TelBoy

Bros2, they're the "official" ones, the ones we know about and are acknowledged by the Government.

But your head isn't stuck so firmly into the sand not to understand that this is the mere tip of the iceberg, is it???

moses

yeah im racist as they come sti shrek coz i have a bigger ding dong and more song and im much sexier and breed more haha so that makes me super racist coz u aitn sexy enough but claude is but he aitn white haha he is the aryan of pink kings one and only

Luke

Word on the street gives the place 24hrs before it gets burned to a cinder. "

And I bet the police are ready...... Better to get the company directors houses/offices/cars etc

StiShrek

Shakes head and weeps at Bros2.

Tip of the iceberg is right.

What about those who enter the country illegally and go to ground or those who enter legally but go to ground anyway while there case is being heard. The list goes on.

Jim Royal '42000 my ****!'

Your head is either in the sand or somewhere where the sun dont shine.

Another Tony Blair spin doctor recruit.

StiShrek

watever Moses zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

camk

never let the facts get in the way of a good lynching eeehhh ? The problem is most people in this argument are dealing purely on perception based on what the newspapers and their mates say. Only 1 guy has provided any facts from what I've read. BTW I got a kicking from some Hibs fans once, personally I'd send them all back to ...eeeehhhh Edinburgh. Bloody economic migrants.....

TelBoy

camk, even Government officials acknowledge that their statistics are under-estimated.

So what's of more value, meaningless "facts" or real-life experiences?

bros2

I was careful to quote the ONS as they are, to the best of my knowledge, independent. After using their data for the last 20 years (I'm an accountant with an economics/econometrics degree) I'm reasonably qualified to comment on the veracity of their output. I would agree with the 'spin' comment if this was research published by No.10 or the Labour Party.

Illegal immigrants? By their very definition, it's hard to collate details on these people. Of course there will be some, but that's a whole different argument. Closing Sangatte has to help, though I agree that it's a problem. How much of a problem is almost impossible for any of us to know, so I suggest we don't argue over it.

Final point. There's crime everywhere. It's mainly committed by poor people, as these are the 'have-not' element in society. Immigrants are almost by definition poor, and some of them will be criminals; this IS NOT the same as saying that all asylum seekers are criminals.

I've had cars stolen, my house broken into, and been beaten up. To my certain knowledge these offences were all carried out by white males. Not all white males are criminals - I know, cos I fall into that category myself.

bros

Scot123

Bros you've made some very sound reasoning so far, but you've just let yourself down badly with your 'final point'

Breaking the law is not the exclusive preserve of 'the poor'

camk

If its underestimated so what if is its even by 100%, the numbers are tiny in comparison to the general population. Its true we get illegal immigrants that are not counted but they cannot easily get all the fabulous riches of the UK like Dole Money and a Council house(well worth travelling across a continent for). More likely they have black market work and kipping on some guys floor.
My real issue is one of the facts and associated perceptions being driven away from reality due to crazy reporting and people just regurgitating urban myths.
BTW this backlash phenomenon against immigration is not new it happened with the Irish in the 19th Century and with Afro Carribeans in the 50's and 60's. AFAIK the fabric of British community has not fallen apart since I was there a week ago.
Britain is NOT the largest acceptor of immigrants in the EU by quite a long margin, the further quotes by someone on US immigration levels are truly a joke given the largest immigration issue they have is from Mexico, mostly again illegal.

TelBoy

camk, so do you think there is now 100% acceptance of Irish and Afrro-Caribbean communities now in the UK?

Or do you think that further immigration, even on a "comparitively" small scale, can only exacerbate the situation?

The UK is a small country. We have limited resources. Why not channel those into solving our own domestic issues first?