NHS, immigrantrs - MY rant for today
31 January 2003, 12:51 PM
#31
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My point is that diseases are spread via migration of populations and new strains are introduced into the new population this is how a disease becomes more virulent. My partner has a Bsc in social sciences and studied Health & Disease & Third World Development.
Your point over the past few months seems to have been that this country is going to the dogs due to all the damn scrounging foreigners that we let in. Now suddenly you are concerned about international healthcare. You are a coward. I have a Masters in International Criminal Law and studied international conventions, torture, persecution, racism, and asylum. I'll see your partner's BSC and raise it to a Masters. I feel I know what I'm talking about. And I feel you, and most people on scoobynet w.r.t. this issue, don't.
[Edited by Brendan Hughes - 1/31/2003 12:52:22 PM]
31 January 2003, 01:02 PM
#32
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Back pedalling, oh dear it appear you just see and ingest what you want to as well eh 
- the point is it is being spread by migration!
Brendan it seems to me that you would rather wait until things have happened than do something about it before or while it he happening, a reactive or hindsight approach. Well this may be good enough for you and the government but not for me, i want to see something done before or whilst we can, it is called being proactive and a proactive approach is best each and every time.
[Edited by Paul Habgood - 1/31/2003 1:09:52 PM]
- the point is it is being spread by migration!Brendan it seems to me that you would rather wait until things have happened than do something about it before or while it he happening, a reactive or hindsight approach. Well this may be good enough for you and the government but not for me, i want to see something done before or whilst we can, it is called being proactive and a proactive approach is best each and every time.
[Edited by Paul Habgood - 1/31/2003 1:09:52 PM]
31 January 2003, 01:08 PM
#33
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Quote
I have a Masters in International Criminal Law and studied international conventions, torture, persecution, racism, and asylum. I'll see your partner's BSC and raise it to a Masters. I feel I know what I'm talking about. And I feel you, and most people on scoobynet w.r.t. this issue, don't.
How patronising - and from a UK citizen living in another country
It appears Brendan is 'our' resident expert and i am wrong and misguided along with a lot of other people. Your qualifications i am sure are well earned, however To see the UK's problems from a UK based persons perspective then perhaps you should come over and spend a year or so here right now.
[Edited by Paul Habgood - 1/31/2003 1:11:40 PM]
I have a Masters in International Criminal Law and studied international conventions, torture, persecution, racism, and asylum. I'll see your partner's BSC and raise it to a Masters. I feel I know what I'm talking about. And I feel you, and most people on scoobynet w.r.t. this issue, don't.
How patronising - and from a UK citizen living in another country
It appears Brendan is 'our' resident expert and i am wrong and misguided along with a lot of other people. Your qualifications i am sure are well earned, however To see the UK's problems from a UK based persons perspective then perhaps you should come over and spend a year or so here right now.
[Edited by Paul Habgood - 1/31/2003 1:11:40 PM]
31 January 2003, 01:12 PM
#34
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Paul, no more discussion, I've got drawn in to the details which is what I wanted to avoid. My original point was that I do not like a moderator REPEATEDLY posting inflammatory material on the same topic. Create a second username as unclebuck2 or Claudius2 and you won't hear a peep from me. I said it in my answer to Richard, above - I do not think it does the scoobynet community any favours.
31 January 2003, 01:20 PM
#37
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Paul
You presented your partner's credentials as proof of your knowledge, and expect us to accept it. Fair enough, your partner certainly knows far more about diseases than I ever will, and I accept the validity of the comment, as far as it goes, though how this impacts on the UK is not made clear.
Having gone down the "qualification to comment" route, to have a go at Brendan because he states the basis of his extremely relevant knowledge is a little silly, don't you think? To then revert to the "yes, but I'm here on the ground and you're not" argument also fails to convince.
Whilst no sane man would disagree that disease can be spread by migration, I'd be interested to know what proportion of the NHS budsget is used on immigrant-related diseases (as distinct from diseases brought back by UK citizens). If you can show me some credible statistics, then I'll start to believe you.
For the moment, however, you come across as being firmly convinced that all immigrants are a source of trouble, whether it be political or medical. As the descendant of immigrants, you can understand that I don't necessarily agree with you. Reasoned debate might change minds, but ranting will only reinforce views.
bros
You presented your partner's credentials as proof of your knowledge, and expect us to accept it. Fair enough, your partner certainly knows far more about diseases than I ever will, and I accept the validity of the comment, as far as it goes, though how this impacts on the UK is not made clear.
Having gone down the "qualification to comment" route, to have a go at Brendan because he states the basis of his extremely relevant knowledge is a little silly, don't you think? To then revert to the "yes, but I'm here on the ground and you're not" argument also fails to convince.
Whilst no sane man would disagree that disease can be spread by migration, I'd be interested to know what proportion of the NHS budsget is used on immigrant-related diseases (as distinct from diseases brought back by UK citizens). If you can show me some credible statistics, then I'll start to believe you.
For the moment, however, you come across as being firmly convinced that all immigrants are a source of trouble, whether it be political or medical. As the descendant of immigrants, you can understand that I don't necessarily agree with you. Reasoned debate might change minds, but ranting will only reinforce views.
bros
31 January 2003, 01:26 PM
#38
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Erm... Paul,
Probably news to you, but actually in the rest of Europe the whole asylum topic has been a lot hotter for the last 10 years than it was in the UK... you seem to think that all we do is put immigrants on the Thalys first class with a free beer, but believe it or not, some are staying here as well. Incredible, I know, as the UK is such a social paradise... (hum)
Does one have to live in your city/street/house to be able to have a balanced opinion ?
Your posts, in my view, are pub talk level, and that's all they will ever be. Not because they are slightly right of centre, but because there is a constant whining, scared white man, blinkered aspect to them.
You don't like to be played with the "racist" card, OK, fair enough, but do other people the same favour and don't immediately conclude that anyone who objects to your style of posts just thinks there are no problems, or that anyone outside the UK doesn't know what they are talking about.
There are problems (but most of them have got nothing to do with immigration), and the sad thing is that with your line of thinking you are actually becoming a *big* part of the problem.
I don't think you are racist BTW (or more racist than most people), but you do seem to swallow the same old same old "it's all the immigrants fault" mantra, just as a lot of people did in Belgium, Holland, France, Austria, Germany, list goes on...
That's why we now have fascist parties with high scores all over the continent. Do you want the same to happen in the UK ?
This is not about diplomas, we can't all be experts on all levels. It's about opinion. I'm sure you prefer balanced opinions when it comes to Scoobies, and hate the Scooby vs XYZ threads.
Then why use the same tactics when you are talking about politics/immigration etc ?
I'm not gonna further post about this, not from a "toys out of pram" POV, but because it actually hurts & frustrates me to see otherwise intelligent people spewing so much hatred.
Probably news to you, but actually in the rest of Europe the whole asylum topic has been a lot hotter for the last 10 years than it was in the UK... you seem to think that all we do is put immigrants on the Thalys first class with a free beer, but believe it or not, some are staying here as well. Incredible, I know, as the UK is such a social paradise... (hum)
Does one have to live in your city/street/house to be able to have a balanced opinion ?
Your posts, in my view, are pub talk level, and that's all they will ever be. Not because they are slightly right of centre, but because there is a constant whining, scared white man, blinkered aspect to them.
You don't like to be played with the "racist" card, OK, fair enough, but do other people the same favour and don't immediately conclude that anyone who objects to your style of posts just thinks there are no problems, or that anyone outside the UK doesn't know what they are talking about.
There are problems (but most of them have got nothing to do with immigration), and the sad thing is that with your line of thinking you are actually becoming a *big* part of the problem.
I don't think you are racist BTW (or more racist than most people), but you do seem to swallow the same old same old "it's all the immigrants fault" mantra, just as a lot of people did in Belgium, Holland, France, Austria, Germany, list goes on...
That's why we now have fascist parties with high scores all over the continent. Do you want the same to happen in the UK ?
This is not about diplomas, we can't all be experts on all levels. It's about opinion. I'm sure you prefer balanced opinions when it comes to Scoobies, and hate the Scooby vs XYZ threads.
Then why use the same tactics when you are talking about politics/immigration etc ?
I'm not gonna further post about this, not from a "toys out of pram" POV, but because it actually hurts & frustrates me to see otherwise intelligent people spewing so much hatred.
31 January 2003, 01:31 PM
#39
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Bros
Will look into figures, work is quiet for me at the mo (you would never have guessed eh)
Bros and Evil - Points taken on board, thanks for your input.
Paul
Will look into figures, work is quiet for me at the mo (you would never have guessed eh)
Bros and Evil - Points taken on board, thanks for your input.
Paul
31 January 2003, 01:37 PM
#40
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Oh an Brendan my original point was why risk importing 'problems' when you have enough of your own already.
A simple health chech would be enough, if we can afford to bring in people from other countries to treat on the NHS or whatever then fine.
[Edited by Paul Habgood - 1/31/2003 1:41:10 PM]
A simple health chech would be enough, if we can afford to bring in people from other countries to treat on the NHS or whatever then fine.
[Edited by Paul Habgood - 1/31/2003 1:41:10 PM]
31 January 2003, 01:41 PM
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Christ on a bike.
www.scoobynet.co.uk
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/
www.bbc.co.uk
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/
Newspapers delivered to the office each day, and email, phone, fax...
I've changed my plea. I think you shouldn't be the moderator on a computer-based BBS as you don't even know what the internet is.
I DON'T WANT TO ARGUE ABOUT YOUR VIEWS OR OTHERS, I JUST DON'T WANT SCOOBYNET TO APPEAR TO ENDORSE THEM AS NORMAL VIA YOUR MODERATOR STATUS BECAUSE I THINK IT WILL NEGATIVELY AFFECT THIS BBS COMMUNITY.
This is getting like the Middle East dispute, no-one remembers how it started.
[Edited by Brendan Hughes - 1/31/2003 1:43:53 PM]
To see the UK's problems from a UK based persons perspective then perhaps you should come over and spend a year or so here right now.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/
www.bbc.co.uk
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/
Newspapers delivered to the office each day, and email, phone, fax...
I've changed my plea. I think you shouldn't be the moderator on a computer-based BBS as you don't even know what the internet is.
I DON'T WANT TO ARGUE ABOUT YOUR VIEWS OR OTHERS, I JUST DON'T WANT SCOOBYNET TO APPEAR TO ENDORSE THEM AS NORMAL VIA YOUR MODERATOR STATUS BECAUSE I THINK IT WILL NEGATIVELY AFFECT THIS BBS COMMUNITY.
This is getting like the Middle East dispute, no-one remembers how it started.
[Edited by Brendan Hughes - 1/31/2003 1:43:53 PM]
31 January 2003, 04:14 PM
#42
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Quote :-'So, as you are so intelligent, please explain to me how immigration is a SIGNIFICANT cause of the collapse of the NHS that you imply, rather than just a minor additional factor that I suspect it is'
I will have to explain this one as its clear you're intellect on the matter isn't very high. whether you like it or not this huge influx of immigrants is affecting the NHS. Doctors surgeries are over stretched and some UK citizens are having to wait for ops due to Queue jumping.
And before you ask me My Uncle is Director of a hospital and has told me directly what a mess w'ere in. And hes a rational guy. However if he came out with this then ppl like you would call him a 'racist.' His budget is squandered on claims and medical treatments by non-UK citizens. Of course UK citizens get treated but are slowly being pushed to the back of the queue.
This whole Issue isn't about racism brendan so don't bring out the Race card. Obviously you must have very low I.Q. LOL LOL
Case dismissed. Next!
[Edited by Popeye P1 - 1/31/2003 4:18:01 PM]
[Edited by Popeye P1 - 1/31/2003 4:19:53 PM]
I will have to explain this one as its clear you're intellect on the matter isn't very high. whether you like it or not this huge influx of immigrants is affecting the NHS. Doctors surgeries are over stretched and some UK citizens are having to wait for ops due to Queue jumping.
And before you ask me My Uncle is Director of a hospital and has told me directly what a mess w'ere in. And hes a rational guy. However if he came out with this then ppl like you would call him a 'racist.' His budget is squandered on claims and medical treatments by non-UK citizens. Of course UK citizens get treated but are slowly being pushed to the back of the queue.
This whole Issue isn't about racism brendan so don't bring out the Race card. Obviously you must have very low I.Q. LOL LOL
Case dismissed. Next!
[Edited by Popeye P1 - 1/31/2003 4:18:01 PM]
[Edited by Popeye P1 - 1/31/2003 4:19:53 PM]
31 January 2003, 04:56 PM
#43
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Popeye,
I'll say the same to you as I said to Paul - show me some stats that demonstrate to me that asylum seekers are a genuine drain on the system, and I'll start to believe it. Until then, it's all vague "they're all diseased" generalisations, which I don't have any time for.
The "huge" influx of people you're referring to isn't actually huge - way less than 100,000 people, in a nation of 60+ million. EVERY SINGLE ONE of these people must have major traumas if they alone can bring the NHS to its knees.
And if my workshy relatives in Manchester are anything to go by (a small sample, but a hornet's nest of malingerers nevertheless) we have loads of our very own spongers who claim disability at the drop of a hat, know every benefit going, and increase the taxes I have to pay because they're too lazy to get a job.
bros
I'll say the same to you as I said to Paul - show me some stats that demonstrate to me that asylum seekers are a genuine drain on the system, and I'll start to believe it. Until then, it's all vague "they're all diseased" generalisations, which I don't have any time for.
The "huge" influx of people you're referring to isn't actually huge - way less than 100,000 people, in a nation of 60+ million. EVERY SINGLE ONE of these people must have major traumas if they alone can bring the NHS to its knees.
And if my workshy relatives in Manchester are anything to go by (a small sample, but a hornet's nest of malingerers nevertheless) we have loads of our very own spongers who claim disability at the drop of a hat, know every benefit going, and increase the taxes I have to pay because they're too lazy to get a job.
bros
31 January 2003, 05:27 PM
#45
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Quote'The "huge" influx of people you're referring to isn't actually huge - way less than 100,000 people'
Think you should add at least another zero on Bros. London 1 in 15 people are asylum seekers now. And then there's the rest of the UK. DOes that add up to 100,000????? Methinks not.
[Edited by Popeye P1 - 1/31/2003 5:46:58 PM]
Think you should add at least another zero on Bros. London 1 in 15 people are asylum seekers now. And then there's the rest of the UK. DOes that add up to 100,000????? Methinks not.
[Edited by Popeye P1 - 1/31/2003 5:46:58 PM]
31 January 2003, 05:27 PM
#46
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What you need to do is this..
You get a banger in one hand, a nice large `frenchie` as I like to call them, and you grab the nearest cat in the other....
(BTW, If you feel offended by the word `cat`, please insert anything else that is likely to offend, e.g. assylum seeker, terrorist, blair, etc.etc.etc..)
You get a banger in one hand, a nice large `frenchie` as I like to call them, and you grab the nearest cat in the other....
(BTW, If you feel offended by the word `cat`, please insert anything else that is likely to offend, e.g. assylum seeker, terrorist, blair, etc.etc.etc..)
31 January 2003, 05:30 PM
#47
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If 1 in 10 people in london were asylum seekers that would mean there are about 800 000 asylum seekers in London, which would also mean there are about 1.2 million unemployed in London alone - hardly!
31 January 2003, 05:40 PM
#48
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I said 1 in 15, can't u read? LOL.
'800 000 asylum seekers'
So what number do you put it? 100 maybe? Thousand?
How many do people come into the Uk undisclosed and disappear into the system. I'm not talking gov. stats which are complete twaddle.
[Edited by Popeye P1 - 1/31/2003 5:42:23 PM]
[Edited by Popeye P1 - 1/31/2003 5:47:51 PM]
'800 000 asylum seekers'
So what number do you put it? 100 maybe? Thousand?
How many do people come into the Uk undisclosed and disappear into the system. I'm not talking gov. stats which are complete twaddle.
[Edited by Popeye P1 - 1/31/2003 5:42:23 PM]
[Edited by Popeye P1 - 1/31/2003 5:47:51 PM]
31 January 2003, 05:43 PM
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Think you should add at least another zero on Bros. London 1 in 10 people are asylum seekers now. And then there's the rest of the UK. DOes that add up to 100,000????? Methinks not.
31 January 2003, 05:50 PM
#54
31 January 2003, 05:51 PM
#55
isnt it great gun to have a go at these sort of things when you see everybody agrees,last count the sun had 510,000 names for its petition for this problem and its not BNP as people keep saying its evryone who is sick as **** about the increasing problem ,we should be like the other countries and just refuse entry
31 January 2003, 05:52 PM
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????????? Non comprendo?????
Bloody students- scab off the state and do **** all. U doing Leisure management or a degree in the Spice Girls?
Bloody students- scab off the state and do **** all. U doing Leisure management or a degree in the Spice Girls?
[Edited by Katana - 1/31/2003 5:52:58 PM]
31 January 2003, 06:14 PM
#58
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Brendan and look at the top right of the page where it says 'Home Office.' Even a man of you're low I.Q. should appreciate their figures are a load of rubbish. LOL.
31 January 2003, 06:24 PM
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I have listened to a lot of so-called intelligent people with degrees/masters...watever that they mostly talk out of their rear end...like brendan does. he is blinded by the ego trip he is riding. Come down to planet earth pls!
Common sense (which Paul has) dicates a lot of this rather than the twaddle you seem to quote.
Do you think politicians who have masters coming out of every orifice are more informed. Are they fek? Just a bunch of spin mongers.
Humbug - If you advocate cruelty to animals and were describing how to do this, then is it any wonder you moron that you were banned. Not funny and very sick since animals cant defend themselves.
Katana - shows his usual face on these issues and throws in his race card and usual disgust at anything that threatens his anti-western propoganda.
Common sense (which Paul has) dicates a lot of this rather than the twaddle you seem to quote.
Do you think politicians who have masters coming out of every orifice are more informed. Are they fek? Just a bunch of spin mongers.
Humbug - If you advocate cruelty to animals and were describing how to do this, then is it any wonder you moron that you were banned. Not funny and very sick since animals cant defend themselves.
Katana - shows his usual face on these issues and throws in his race card and usual disgust at anything that threatens his anti-western propoganda.