chrome

I'll post up on 5-0 too POC.. give you a little more exposure..
every litle helps




I'd love one but had an expensive month car wise.. another time for me..

Natdam

Take a look at the thread starter,along with a few of the replies.More importantly look at the price!Almost 50% cheaper than the A.P.
Surely if this knowledge was widespread,uptake would have been massive!
Ive read the AP sight and like everyone else (well nearly everyone else!)believed all the marketing and came to the conclusion (probably wrongly,but like most)that the AP clutch was just that.
Given the MASSIVE price difference surely someone must explain the AP difference?
Never mind pounds pressure but who can explain the ££££££ pressure?

R19KET

The clutch kits Grasshopper/POC have offered appear to be a very good buy, and I'm sure that anyone who buys one, will be very happy.

I have no idea if it's the same clutch as AP sell, just re-boxed. Are you just assuming that they are the same, or do you know it, as a FACT ?

Mark.

Natdam

As asked previous `surely someone can explain the AP difference`.
Iam stating facts,drawing my own conclusions,asking for the `real facts`.The facts are as follows:-

1.Daikin (Parent company EXEDY Japan) manufacture AP performance Clutches.
2.Daikin are the OEM supplier to Subaru.
3. Daikin also `sell` OEM spec subaru clutches.
4. A.P sell `performance` Organic/Ceramic clutches.
5. Daikin also sell `Sports Clutches`,Organic/Ceramic.
6. Performance benifit claims are equal.
7. In Aus,States and Japan Exedy is massively known as a `performance brand product`.
8.In the UK `A.P `is the brand`
9.In the UK `A.P is nearly double the price of the Daikin/Exedy`.

The list goes on.
Make up your own mind.
Somebody MUST know the reasons for the HUGE price difference?

Andy.F

Mark

My Original Sti clutch, my AP paddle and the clutch you supplied all share the same spring diaphragm. I have pics of all 3 showing the part numbers stamped on them.(can post if you wish) I have also measured the thickness of the spring and the pivot point - all identical. Clamp pressure I can't measure but with the same recession behind the mounting face I can't see how it could be different ??
The friction discs may well vary ? I don't know. The original clutch would hold my measly 365 lb-ft ok but would struggle with a hard launch. The new clutch also struggled with a 5k rpm launch, the clutch would slip before the wheels spun however to be fair it only had a few hundred miles on it and maybe wasn't fully bedded in ?

Natdam

Agreed!(until proved otherwise)`the plates might be different`But even if this is true how can A.P justify the MASSIVE price hike?

Andy.F

A bit like their brake discs I guess which are also overpriced IMO

R19KET

Andy,

I can only say that the clutches ARE re-worked. I know that there are other parts fitted, but I can't comment on exactly what (I don't know) but could find out for you.

I don't think 1/4 miling, and dropping the clutch at 5k, is a representative test, for an "organic" clutch.

I suggested you would be better with a paddle clutch, but were concerned about the gearbox. You stated you wanted the organic.

As I said, I use the same cover on my own car. At Elvington I was dropping the clutch at 6000rpm +, no slip, just wheel spin, and you know the torque my engine has, even if it was down a bit on the day.

Mark.

Andy.F

Yes Mark, I've seen the video of your car launching at Elvington Was that coal you were burning
Perhaps it's the friction material that is the main difference then ? As you are aware the pedal pressure is not heavy, if anything it feels lighter than standard. So if the pedal is not heavy and the clutch pivot (lever ratio) is in the same place (it is) the clamp load cannot be high.

Andy

Pavlo

andy,

you always humour me...

tweenierob

Just taken an Ap Organic out of my car.. i had real bad slipping problems with it..
This was cured by fitting the Lateral clutch, the pedal feel does feel a bit harder with the Lateral clutch and i am no longer having any slip issues at all.

My original clutch was an off the shelf Daiken clutch, it held 317bhp and 290lbft..
This was replaced with a SACHS clutch kit that also held the same power but the plate didnt last as long, it also had the DK logo on the cover.

I purchased a 2nd hand STI cover and used a new AP paddle plate with it, hated the bite and decided that it wasnt suitable for daily use.. cover also stamped DK.

The next clutch fitted was an AP Organic clutch, this held the original power but slipped at 1.4bar boost, cover also stamped with DK.. I am not sure of torque figures at 1.4bar but made 250lbft at.85bar and 329lbft at 1.67 so would have been roughly 305ish lbft (at a guess).

The original Daiken and the SACHS used std plates, the AP and The lateral use Organic plates.
maybe std driven plates are better than we think??

Daiken may make the covers but the internals are made to Manufacturers spec, bit like brake pads.. the back plates are made by a main co. and the friction material is added to the backplates.
This is because it makes more financial sense to import the backplates for each car design than to make a backplate for every design needed..

using mine an Dans cars as examples...
As i guessed the clutch allignment on both cars i got it as close as i could and tightened the cover up, both plates needed adjustment after rotating the flywheel 90 degrees as i have wonky eyes.
I used two bars either side of the release bearing to save unbolting the cover again..
My clutch took a lot more leverage to open than dans, this is only just noticaable on the pedal??..

My car. Lateral Performance clutch kit..
Dans car. Exedy/Dk labelled clutch kit..

To look at they are both the same.

Food for thought..

Anyways, i was most impressed with my original clutch which came in a Daiken Box and it got through about 4 drag days. One of which was my 12 second run..
Bottom line from me is that IMHO the Daiken clutch i fitted originally on my car was very good value for money.

Unlike the AP which had 2 drag starts and has worn very quickly, it isnt quite down to the rivets but does not have much use left on it..

If i was on a budget or not a power hunter i would fit a Daiken clutch again.

P.s. only £160 from GGR

Rob

tweenierob

Forgot to add..
£160 from GGR was for std clutch, not Organic or cerametallic.
Still good though.

Rob

Natdam

Had the official word today off AP Tech services.They informed that there organic kits come with a DK pressure plate,organic Borg and beck plate (part of the AP,borg beck,lockheed,DELPH group)with the plate compound marked VALEO.If the plates different,then it aint `there kit`.

RRH

Have read the thread pretty thoroughly, and can't seem to find an answer to the pros / cons of organic v ceramic.
can someone please enlighten me.
cheers,
simon

tweenierob

Natdam, no offence mate but i dont know who you spoke to??
AP and AP Racing are two different companies now, Lockheed also split from Borg n Beck/AP Racing a long time ago.

Rob

Natdam

Lockheed and borg and beck have the same parent company DELPH.
A.P use a Borg and beck plate with a DK cover.Ill post the pictures tommorow.

wrrjones

id be up for one ...chris.... which is best ceramic or organic?

sly fox

I am having one of these daiken organic clutches fitted tomorrow so i will keep you posted with the results.

sly

NB. Grasshoppers prosports service so far has been very quick and helpful.

[Edited by sly fox - 5/20/2003 2:17:06 PM]

JamesS

The ceramic friction plate is a paddle clutch only. Not for a road car IMHO.....

Had some issues with Grasshopper but they are now sorting it out!

tweenierob

I need to update this as there seems to be some confusion...
After fitting the clutch to my car and dans, there were some problems which i wont go into as i dont feel it is fair to use dans car as a 'one off' example...
However, lets just say that Dan was unhappy with the clutch that i fitted for him, due to the circumstances Dan was given a refund for the exedy clutch and i have since fitted a Lateral Performance clutch to his car also.
This was due to how happy i was with my clutch and what dan wanted to do.
Hope this clears up any confusion.
The reason i did not post about dans car having another clutch was A. Lateral Performance clutches have had enough praise from me
B. The Co. which supplied Dans original clutch had did not give any problems with a refund and compensated for time.

I must stress that the company that supplied the original clutch was not the supplier in this group buy.

Rob

Pavlo

Andy,

Suggest you draw out the lever motion of the diaphragm spring, this will show you why the clutch pedal is lighter, but also the travel of the pressure plate is less.

Edited to add.

Pivot is in same place, but pressure points on pressure plate are further out.

Paul

[Edited by Pavlo - 5/8/2003 2:32:32 PM]

Andy.F

I'll have a look at that on my stock of clutches and report back
Hmm, even if I humour you and draw a pic I don't see how the pedal pressure would be lighter as it is independant of the pressure point. I can see how that would make the clutch more/less progressive but when you hold it to the floor it doesn't know where the pressure point is therefore would not vary in weight.


[Edited by Andy.F - 5/8/2003 3:19:19 PM]

sly fox

anybody else had a problem with these exedy clutches from grasshopper??

sly

JamesS

Mines coming off in the next few weeks....

Poor progression and awful judder, even coming down the box........................

CataIunya

So are these good clutches or not ?

sly fox

i'm less than happy with my clutch, already had a failure on it which grasshopper are not willing to sort out quickly (3-4 weeks). Looking to change it already for a different one... ap prehaps?

sly

Andy.F

I didn't buy one of these clutches, however I am very happy using the original Subaru cover (with 50k on it) with a new 99- Subaru friction disc fitted (£77 from your dealer)

I have been using this at Elvington for loads of 1/4 mile runs on 440bhp/380+lb-ft torque and it worked great

Andy

dougies549

Hi All

Did any one fit a uprated flywheel when they did the clutch at the same time?

What are your bitting point's like?

When you say judder is that at low down rev's, i was under the impression that it was down to a lighter fly wheel and you don't have the same enersa with it.

Cheers Dougie