wilf

Cup has BHP/ton of 169 not 161.

Coopers a nice but drive the Cup and you'll see why people rave about it. It may not be as solid or well controlled as Cooper but IMHO its manic chuckable and sharper. All equals more fun 90% of the time.

Oh Autocar test was Tiny Titan and had plastered on the front something about the Clio Cup being new hot hatch champ. If you read the article its all one way traffic in the Cup's favour. If you're bothered about it that is. Even What Car have said the Cup is more fun to drive.

Only test Cup didnt do well in so far was the big EVO group test. The Cups problem (IMHO as an owner) is that it gets v ragged near the limit on rough roads and this is shown up when you push it against faster cars.

bluenose172

iTrader: (2)

Actually the p/w/r of the mini is only 142BHP/tonne, thats not a lot to write home about, I'd expect a Cup to annihilate it in a straight line! 16.5 plays 22s to 100!??

163/1.140!

[Edited by bluenose172 - 2/21/2003 12:24:03 PM]

The_Gza

I've got that Autocar test somewhere - IIRC there are some cracking lines in it re: Cup vs Mini

Will try and dig it out and fire them up here

Tim-Grove

What we have to except is that some people have an instant dislike of Renault’s, it’s the same with Fiat. But these people don’t want to accept the fact that Renault are making very capable hot hatches. The thought of a crappie little Renault having the bare faced cheek to be faster than an obviously superior BMW Mini is unbearable for these people. I had the same situation in my 172 after I just blew a Cooper S away. The next set of lights that we came to the driver of this mini was going ******* ape ****, I thought he was going to get out of his car and come over but the lights changed and I floored it. He instigated the race so it serves him write, he should have taken his spanking like a man.

Tim.

DarkForce

GaryC,

I have that Autocar review of the Cooper S and Clio Cup I mentioned in another thread in front of me now, and not only does the Cooper S get beaten it says the Power to Weight ratios are as follows:

Cooper S: 141bhp per tonne
Clio Cup: 175bhp per tonne

Chris

[Edited by DarkForce - 2/21/2003 6:25:11 PM]

Witor

My 156bhp 206 GTi does a 0-60 of 7.1, consistently, 0-100 is just under 19 seconds.

With 180bhp, you're looking at mid-high 6's & low-mid 17's.

Slow who?

GaryC

And in 'EVO' and 'CAR' not only does the Renault get beaten it quotes the Power and Weights as..

Mini - 163bhp and 1070kg
Renault - 170bhp (172 is the PS) and 1020kg (1069 for the 172)

Ok so my previous figures were a little out, but it is still 153/166 (158 for 172).

But that is only important if magazines are more swaying that actually driving the cars

As I said above, having driven both, my cash would go on the Cooper S, performance differential is negligble (partly through MINIs greater torque), but the handling (IMO) is better in the MINI, its far more chuckable, inspires more confidence, gives better steering feedback, has better grip, looks better, is certainly built far better which back to back would give the MINI the edge for me.....add in the cost benefits (insurance, residuals, servicing), higher spec and the aesthetic benefits of the MINI, it would be a no brainer. Even my neighbour with a 172 having driven the 2 is looking at changing for a CooperS - partly as down a favourite local twisty route, he can't shake me in Mrs Cs standard (non-'S') cooper as for every inch he makes up on the straights 170bhp Vs 115 bhp), I can claw back on the bends and under braking.


....and this isn't Renault hot hatch bashing Renault have made a number of genre defining hot hatches Turbo 1&2, 5GT Turbo, original clio 16v, clio williams. I have had both a 16v and a Williams and they were fantastic. The current 172/Cup are likewise awesome cars in their markets, but there is just more competition around now and whilst they are very cheap compared to previous hot-hatches (the Cup is cheaper today than my 16v and Williams were 8/10 years ago ) you just get more for your money and grin factor with the CooperS...IMO and from having driven both.

GaryC

.....but stand by my overall advice, if you can afford an R32, get 2 cars.

You would be able to afford a second hand 172/golf gti AND a Westfield for proper performance My Westie will really blow any of the 4 away...in reverse Straight line you wouldn't even see me after 20 seconds on the twisties you wouldn't see me after 10secs

bluenose172

iTrader: (2)

Two things Gary.

Cooper S weighs 1140KG and it is 172 BHP! Go do your sums again!

Every mag I've seen and everyone I've talked to who has driven the two has said the 172 is noticably quicker!

Kussimurran

Yeah, I think the grin factor isn't a problem with the Cup at least. It really is feckin' fast for a hot hatch. On and off circuit.

Rokerlad

GaryC....have you actually driven a Cup or just a standard 172. The Cup suspension is by all accounts a lot sharper.

GaryC

Only driven a 172, but even Renault say the suspension on the 172 and Cup is identical, the only difference is the loss of 40kg of weight which won't make that much difference!

...oh and Renault also state the 172 is PS - and 172PS is 170bhp If it was 172BHP it would be c174PS and be called the Clio174

MooseRacer

I'm no expert on the pesky little french h/backs but I know the Cup has a wider track for starters, don't know if anything else is different?

Tim-Grove

CLICK ME

The facts.

Tim.

[Edited by Tim-Grove - 2/23/2003 5:55:56 PM]

[Edited by Tim-Grove - 2/23/2003 5:58:13 PM]

bluenose172

iTrader: (2)

Gary,

Renault do not state 172 PS they state 172 BHP!

Go to www.renault.co.uk


[Edited by bluenose172 - 2/23/2003 6:06:40 PM]

Rokerlad

GaryC ..The Cup and the 172 are different beasts. The Cup is quicker and sharper. RenaultSport say the suspension is upgraded so I don't know where you get you facts from.

bluenose172

iTrader: (2)

I'll soon find out my bro is getting a Clio Cup in a couple of weeks time. I'm sure there will be more grip and a better turn in, however theres not going to be a lot in it in a straight line though!

The_Gza

From the Renault site above:


[Edited by The_Gza - 2/23/2003 8:53:41 PM]

R1916v

Gary C,

I have the EVO test FOcus RS, WRX, Clio Cup and Cooper S infront of me know, it clearly states in car stats

Clio Cup 171 bhp/ton
Cooper S 143 bhp/ton
And in that test the cooper doesnt come out top, I quote the last line "If there's a moral voctor here, the Clio Cup it is".

Methinks Gary has been visiting an egyption river.

Also their test figures show 0-60 of cooper S as 7.7, Clio Cup as 6.5.

[Edited by R1916v - 2/23/2003 11:08:40 PM]

Airwolf

I must say having driven the Cooper S and the Clio Cup, the Cup feels much quicker and sharper (sharper than my STI UK in many ways!), the Mini feels too grown up for my liking and looks a bit gay too! (Sorry I'm not homophobic, it just does!)

I have just about made my decision to go with the Cup, but my brain (and feminine side) tells me that the Cooper is much more tuneable and has the potential to murder most Imprezas once fettled. What I have decided though is that the Cooper should have as little extras fitted as possible, in order to savour the drivers enjoyment.

dogmaul

stick throttle bodies, filter and exhaust on the cup and you will be seeing the right side of 210bhp then an ecu and well all hell brakes loose :P

R1916v

Take a look at teh latest EVO mag, they did a test with a tuned s at over 200bhp i think.

They werent that impressed with it though.

mnangrybeats

I have the Hatge conversion on my Cooper S, by far the best conversion to have on a Cooper S, turns it into a top end screemer now 210hp and revs to 7500rpm..

Evo rate the Hartge conversion infact have it on their own long termer...

The Clio Cup is a cracking car, but I prefer my Cooper S. Not as raw but a far rewarding car to drive hard IMO.

Have a look at my Donington trackday video at http://www.angrybeats.co.uk

Mat R

my cup was great like i keep saying
img]http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/MexWave.gif[/img]

mackem boy

I have just sold an Impreza WRX (MY01) and bought a Cooper S.
Hartge do a conversion up to 207bhp for £1800.
Plus all of the chicks wave to you in a Mini (unlike in the bug eyed monster!!!!)