TelBoy

*cough*

What??

TelBoy

You'll be saying "blowed" next Carl...!!

TelBoy

Lynne, so why should everybody else accept the standards of other people's English, no matter how low they are, according to you?

At what point does it become relevant, to you??


[Edited by TelBoy - 2/25/2003 3:16:54 PM]

Redkop

I don't intend having a personal war with you Mice on here - please direct any thoughts and accusations you have to me by email. Thank you.

Oh dear a spelling mistake - so have edited accordingly.

[Edited by Redkop - 2/25/2003 3:27:55 PM]

Redkop

Why should people have English lessons directed at them on a car bbs - eh? Surely this is not the 'relevant' place to do it, nor IMO is correct to vilify, on a public bbs, someone's spelling as seen in previous posts too.

Also, Tel if you have issues with this, please email me.

TelBoy

Nope, i don't have issues which cannot be discussed here.

You're right, it's a car bbs. But why should that be an excuse for people's low standard of English? Why are we generally accepting lower standards in this country, across a broad spectrum of issues?

And i don't think there has been any vilification on this thread which hasn't been done very tongue in cheek, as i'm sure Carl will appreciate (we have history you know! )

JackClark

i

TurboKitty

No problem at all with people disagreeing with me, if they can back up what they are saying and express themselves clearly, otherwise it just gets boring.

I do have a problem with people spouting the same old tripe over and over again without reading or attempting to understand what other people have said. Just to make it clear, this comment does not refer to you.

As for me missing major points in posts, well, interpreting them in a different way to the way you see them doesn't count as missing the point, IMO.

TelBoy

JackClark, you did see the 16th post on page 3, didn't you?

Redkop

Probably, because there are far more important issues to be addressed and dealt with, than people's use of the English language.

Sorry would like to carry this on further, but I do have some work to get on with.

Dracoro

In the NSR forum! Many of the threads in here have nothing to do with cars! The reasoning would mean that people could not have opinons on news, tv's, games etc. directed at them!.

Remember people don't HAVE to read the thread if they don't want to. If people are concerned about their English, then there's somewhere for them to find out.

TurboKitty

*shrug*

I agree with Tel that the understanding and useage of our language is a pretty important issue.

carl

I think you'll find that 'spelled' is as valid as 'spelt'. Try www.dictionary.com

Markus

Well, I am British, and thus am meant to have some valid command of the English language, but, well, I did fail English lang and lit at school (think I failed eng lit twice! lol). To be honest, it does not bother me too much at all. I have a spelling and grammar checker, which seems to account for most of my rather poor attempts at speeling (yes, I did do that on porpoise).

One thing though, and I am not sure if this has been mentioned, some people cannot spell correctly, because they cannot, not everyone does have a perfect command of the english language, for example, someone could well be dyslexic (not sure of the spelling, no pun intended, and I'm not going to look the spelling up ) and not be aware of it, thus this is a possible legitimate reason for the errors. Also, some MIGHT be dyslexic AND know it, but not wish to disclose it for fear of being ridiculed, thus thier posts being picked apart could well upset them.

Anyway, I am NOT having a go at anyone, just pointing out my views on this topic. To be honest, people picking apart others posts for correctness does not bother me, but I know it DOES bother others.

my 2 cents worth (damn! pence worth, bloody USA! )

TelBoy

dictionary.com, shmictionary.com.

OED if you purrlease, sir! No "spelled" in there...

carl

I don't have an OED available to hand, and it's not available on the web without subscription

Mice_Elf

Don't have to start a personal war...I was just pointing out that you tell a completely different story when you consider it important to learn to spell correctly.

carl

The alt.english.usage FAQ at http://www.english-usage.com/faq.html seems to have multiple instances of the word 'spelled' and only one of the word 'spelt'. And the authors are Fowler's biggest fans

TelBoy

Phew, at least they admit it!!

CraigH

No, that's fair enough. Although it would be fair to say that if you misinterpret the point made by the original poster then you're missing the point.

Telboy,

I understand what you're saying, but would you go up to a person on the street and correct them if they were speaking incorrectly?

I would agree with Carl that a lot is to do with laziness - abbrieviating words - I do it all the time but when I do I'm typing as if I'm talking. In Cockney

Has anyone thought that some of the people that post wrongly (unwittingly) as mentioned in these posts, may be made to feel somewhat stupid and embarrassed?

It's no-ones place on here to re-educate people (unless perhaps friends) on their grammar or spelling. Unless they're an English teacher maybe

But maybe I'm doing what I accused TK of - missing the point.

If you want to take it to another level, you should come up North - they don't even speak english

Redkop

Whatever Mice, but again it's a case of you jumping into a situation, knowing only half the story. You were not aware of what had gone on beforehand, so therefore, not in a position to really pass judgement, are you?

Mice_Elf

Actually, Lynne, yes I was. I was there when person X logged in, I was there when my friend logged in and I was there throughout the flame war. At one point we went to dinner, came back and you were still going.

Don't try to patronise me by telling me I don't know what's going on. I don't make ill-informed decisions and I don't leap in where I don't know what I am talking about.

carl

You're right CraigH -- a car BBS is not a good place to learn English. But I can't see why someone would be offended by being corrected

A long time ago, somebody (who also introduced me to Fowler's) pointed out the wisdom of -ize vs. -ise -- I now use -ize where necessary.

On this BBS somebody told me that starting a sentence with 'Also' was wrong. I looked it up and found that to be correct, and no longer start sentences with 'Also'.

I come on here to learn -- people make mistakes about how turbos work, ECUs are mapped, et cetera and are corrected by the more knowledgeable members. Why should it be any different with English?

PS: I think there are two discussions here -- the one about English usage and the Mice_Elf/Redkop one

[Edited by carl - 2/25/2003 4:18:42 PM]

Redkop

Errrrr Mice, this didn't cover just one night! I said you hadn't seen what had gone on beforehand, so I stand by what I say, you can't pass judgement, when you are not fully aware of all facts.

Markus

Futhermore. Does it make me less of a person if I cannot spell correctly? because some do feel that this is what is being indicated by this disection of posts, would the same apply if my maths skills were called into question? Again, my math skills are appaling, and I'm not joking, I can do very basic maths. Does this mean I am thick? and idiot? not worthy of the status of being part of the human race? should I be sterillised so I cannot reproduce and thus cause my obvious lack of math and language skills to another generation thus contaminating the gene pool futher?

As said, some feel this constant correction of what others write seems to indicate that others are more intellegent than the rest, and no, I am NOT talking about anyone in particular, I don't want people thinking I'm aiming this at anyone, ok?
However, who dictates that this is so? I might not be able to spell, and sometimes verbalise the correct words, and I know I my maths skills are poor, but this does NOT make me stupid, which I feel some people think IS being insinuated by all this.

For those who know me, I'm a ******* excellent product engineer, I have 10 years worth of knowledge that, at most, only 4 people on this planet come close to holding and no, I'm not making this up. OK, so this isn't anything that is going to change the world, but I AM valued by a lot of people worldwide, pure and simple. Thus even though I can't spell or add up, I'm still no fool (hmm, ok, maybe a little fool, kinda the mini-me of fools! lol )

Enough, rant over. Most unlike me to rant like this

Let us drop all this negativity and just get along together

(((((((((((((((((((( group hug ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

CraigH

wiv regrds 2 not being abel 2 unerstand if not written proper thas not exatly trew is it?

You can still communicate.

If not you can communicate with hands. Middle finger is used for....

TelBoy

Craig, no i don't think you're missing the point, because i for one don't really have a point to make.

Other than the fact i think we should as a nation be concerned with the level of spelling and grammar that is prevalent today, not just on Scoobynet. And let's face it, the level of English on here is substantially higher than the average. The general level of literacy and command of the English language at large is imo frighteningly low, which i think is as worrying as people's ineptitude with basic mathematics nowadays. Does that also "not matter" because we have calculators? Where does it end?

Do i correct people on the street? No, that wouldn't be courteous. Would it affect my opinion in circumstances where it mattered? Yes.

Do i intend to intentionally embarrass anyone on here? Absolutely not. But if it makes just a few people think about it a little bit more, then i think that would be a good thing.

Mice_Elf

Yes, Lynne, OK Lynne, whatever you say, Lynne... I can't be bothered dragging that all up again. Suffice it to say that on that night, you were adamant that all words should be typed correctly.


Mark - pack it in with that group hug thing. I'm not tactile and hate that whole American "must feel good all the time" tactic.



[Edited by Mice_Elf - 2/25/2003 4:25:45 PM]

CraigH

Well said Markus

carl

Markus's post -- not spelt correctly, some capitals missing, easy to scan and read quickly
Craig's post -- you have to read it very slowly to make sense.
It's the second sort I'm talking about -- I think it's impolite because it inconveniences the reader.