Regacy

Fair enough.
I had envisaged the manager at he end of the production line defining the productivity by setting the speed of the conveyor belt.
But there's no reason why he can't just set a 'minimum' speed.
Sounds reasonable.

Suresh

My Euro cent's worth -
I am not a fan of the UK work ethic and think it to be a little too short-termist. Typically, you are expected to work excessive hours just to keep your job. The upside might be that a decent 'performance' bonus could be paid in a good year. In a bad year don't expect much other than a P45 . . . UK employement law doesn't really protect the employee much in this respect.

Have worked in the City, Switzerland and now the Netherlands and believe a more balanced approach to work / life demands results in a happier and more productive employee. This balance is perhaps more important the older we get.

I am currently contracted to work a 40 hour week and average about 45 hours as a good will gesture from my side. Will not contribute more than this as my private life hours are just not for sale. I would not work for an employer who did not accept this. Just to clarify, I've done more than my fair share of 60-70 hour weeks in the past and choose never to do so again.

All IMHO, of course.

Scot123

Japsport, can I come and work for you?

No seriously people are moaning about the lack of work ethic in this country. Are you really surprised people act like this when they are forced to do ‘unpaid overtime’ etc. This and the fact we have the longest working hours and life time in Europe, oh wait a minute, we’re going to have to work untie we die now, great! It’s called resentment. When will you realise that the thing people value the most is ‘their’ time, the time they spend with their families- ‘quality’ time. I’m sure most of us here work to live, not the other way around. I’d imagine very few of us are actually in a position that we love our work. Sportsmen, fighter pilots and astronauts are excused…

It seems most office managers work on the divide and conquer principle. Create an atmosphere of uncertainty and let the back stabbing commence, then it become very easy to exploit employees. Never heard the expression ‘United we stand, divided we fall’? This isn’t about being bolshy, it’s about getting paid what you’re due. What’s so f**king unfair about that? Make people feel valued and watch your productivity soar. What would happen if a client contracted a company to do a certain amount of work then added another third onto and said, ‘oh, by the way, you’ll do that for free’. They wouldn’t do, so why should you be expected to? Bottom line is employees are an easy target for cost-cutting, that shows how much your company values you.


Rant over, brothers.

Squizz

Just to answer a few comments...

I have worked in IT since 1987, both in permanent and contract positions.

I once went from earning £64K per annum to earning £16K per annum, and it was the most enjoyable job I ever had.

I have been a Project Manager and worked 24+ hours on many occasions to see things through - To the point where I was nearly hospitalised thanks to an illness.

I have been made redundant once before.

This particular company, and the management involved, are however...right royally taking the p1ss. [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

They choose this particular moment to berrate and chastise their (remaining) workforce, in the knowledge that they're relying on us to save their fvcking skins by pulling rabbits out of hats and achieving the near impossible. Once achieved, we'll all be chucked...and we know it. This lot are "Totally hat-stand"

Just when I manage to get interviews going for other employers, the current ones try to get us into a 3 month notice period. Just so they can secure the project. Grrrrr...

I'll survive. If I get binned, I'll find something...If I don't...I'll find something.

It's the ludicrous strong-arm, bully-boy, tactics that get my goat. When will management ever learn how counter-productive this is??!??

<whistles the "Great Escape">

[Edited by Squizz - 2/28/2003 1:31:10 PM]

Chris L

And another thing....

The UK actually tops the European list for the average number of hours worked per week. And we also have considerably less holiday than many of our European counterparts (France comes to mind - ever tried getting something done in France in August? I should know, I work for a French company FFS!!!!) - So before people start questioning the work ethic in the UK....

The downfall of British manufacturing also had a lot to do with chronic under investment by successive governments in knackered old nationalised industries - who refused to admit that those clever chaps in Japan and Korea could actually build things better and cheaper than we could.

Chris

[Edited by Chris L - 2/28/2003 4:47:20 PM]

midget1500

diablo : "But how many of you "work to rule types" actually work for the 7.5 hours or so you are there?"

see, i think it has become very apparent that there are 2 types of "workers", at least on this thread.

diablos attitude of "work to rule types" gets my back up...why?

1. work to rule? hello, there are no rules. it's a job, an agreement, you agree to spend 7.5 hours a day in work and they pay you accordingly. you are expected to do your job when there.

2. "work to rule" !!types!! - what, we are scum?

i know this isn't all black and white, there are so MANY factors involved and it depends on your perspective, but when people bash on about work ethics and working hours being the demise of the british economy etc it makes me mad

Dave P

There is also a saying, work expands to fit the overtime available.

From an employer point of view overtime is not a fixed cost and makes it difficult to budget.

I don't think any company wishes to force unhealthy hours on their employees but we are currently in a downturn of the economic cycle. We currently have headcount freezes, increasing volume and tightening margins and falling profits. Therefore it makes a certain amount of business sense to squeeze more out of your employees.

It is interesting to note that the Uk still leads the unemployment tables by a long way. I wouldn't mind betting this is in many ways due to the flexibility of employees who are not so heavily regulated by the working time regs as our European neighbours.

The bottom line is that if we whinge too much our jobs will end up in India..... until they start whinging then they'll come straight back.... but there will be a lot of pain in the interim.

Dave

Scot123

Dave are you sure your second name isn't Brent

Apple

I'm now doing a 35-hr week and can get overtime if it's justified - I'll keep on if the job needs doing and to suit my timeplans but other than that, I'm out the door within 1/2 hour of finish time. Can't do with clockwatchers tho - there's a few that go 10mins early every night and they also crawl in with mins to go in a morning (when they have to swipe in to prove they're there)

Last co. I worked for was unpaid o/time and ended up doing a few 14hr days at times - supposedly for time off in lieu but it never happened and was relocated out of dept to save money and then chucked out in cost-cutting exercise a year later - [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

that was my 1st job after graduating and I was trying to set a good impression and it made diddly squat difference so this time I'm in it for mainly myself and go home at reasonable hours

At least my boss now has the same attitude so there isn't a conflict and I don't have to ****-lick.

Apple

edited to add that I'm now a chartered mech engineer so not exactly sticking tops on smarties tubes and have had two promotions in 2 1/2 yrs so I can't be doing all that badly...

to a point, being kicked out of last co was one of the best things to happen with what I'm doing now and I'm not now doing 25K miles a year commuting

[Edited by Apple - 2/28/2003 8:28:41 PM]

James Neill

iTrader: (1)

Squizz - reading your comments I think it has nothing to do with the hours you work and everything to do with the political enviornment you appear to be operating in.

If they're relying on you to save their skins and then they junk you, then your appraisal has nothing to do with the hours you work. All they're doing is creating a record - so when you get the push they can point to this appraisal for the reason why.

Basically, (psycho-analysis here) you've fallen in to their trap. They've put you in this predicament and want to you to be a ball-acher.

You should address the route causes. Which is
- Management commitment
- Incentives (eg, peformance related pay or whatever)
- Career growth
- Respect

Can you address these with people above the layer of management causing you problems? Would you have a sponsor?

I'm afraid kicking up a fuss about the hours you work is a smoke screen and playing in to the hands of these people.

JapSport

Scot123 - Hell, with that attitude you can not only work for me, you can run the place and I'll retire.. I reckon the guys would be ok with that..

To clarify for the others.. I'm in engineering, bespoke aircon equipment normally to customer design and or specs, so there is a great deal of responsibility to deliver on time as the installers charge more to put the gear in than I could ever get away with charging to make it.. Deliver late and I get penalised for a workforce sat around on their asses waiting for my gear.. Point is, over the short time I've been doing it I've established methods and practices which allow me to accurately estimate the time to completion and the factory is loaded to an achievable yet profitable capacity.. No one sits around twiddling their thumbs and very rarely is o/t required, usually only when a supplier has let me down..

it works, what can I say.. 'cept the market's taken a bit of a nosedive lately so keep it under your hats but I'm sh!tting bricks at the moment..

Dave P

Scott, no I'm not such a good dancer as David Brent!

But I worked for one bank where they operated flexitime in an office. Then they merged that office with ours, canned the flexitime, but amazingly the work still all got done in the 9 to 5!!! Hence people were fleecing their employer for 7 hours per month, plus overtime.

Dave

Scot123

Jap, I wasn't taking a swipe at you, I believe you're being a reasonable boss. I work hard but expect to be renumerated accordingly.

Peace and love, Scoty

The mans a jigging genius,,MC Hammmer who da fu*k, Dave?

[Edited by Scot123 - 3/1/2003 1:46:26 AM]

[Edited by Scot123 - 3/1/2003 3:33:24 AM]