Whilst I appreciate that you are valued and highly respected member of Scoobynet, I'm afraid that I have to disagree with you John.

The thread you refer to was a no win situation, and both sides of the story have an equally convincing argument, and were debated to death at time your resigned. Consequently, I don't think it can reasonably be used as the basis for an argument/discussion.

IMHO, moderation might be a tad harsh at present, but things have got a little out of control. There are several members of the board openly trading through Scoobynet, whose only response to emails from moderators is to either send thinly veiled threats, or to creat another ID and carry on. Some of them are bloody hard work to keep up with, as they not only post their own ads, but post inside wanted threads.

The result, as I see it, is that we're having to clamp down on everything in an effort to get things under control, and that will hopefully then allow us the time to excersise more discretion.

Personally, I want to see members being given sound advice, and the community assisting members by pointing out good or bad deals, but we need to ensure that members know they're buying from other members, or as part of a proper group buy.

I've benfitted from the odd group buy myself in the past, but they all had one thing in common. They were all organised by a wholly independent member of the board, and the only contact with the company was to give them your details and payment.

I'm afraid the truth in these cynical days is that it's no longer good enough just to be honest, you have to be seen to be so.

Josh

 

My 2p - whilst I believe that most who use the scoobynet do so to help both themselves and others, I cannot agree that we make it what it is - it is the webmaster & moderators who do that, we are just the lucky bugg@rs who get to use a fantastic research tool for free. In other words, if webmaster wants to make and enforce rules, all power to him. If I don't like it, I'll stop using it as will others - this doesn't appear to be happening does it?

As for Gossy, sorry mate but if you use a name which includes your trade and then recommend a product associated with that trade, you can't be surprised if people think there is a commercial purpose to your post - even if there isn't. After all, why not just use Gossy as your name, not many others on this board tell us what they do.

All in all, a highly amusing thread - let's keep things in perspective though!!

Tom

 

Talking about looking up IP addresses if you have a cable modem using DHCP. The modem will re-lease an IP address every 24 hours. Chances are the IP address will be the same as previous. I've had the same IP address for months.

If I was re-issued with a new IP address then it would be very similiar to my last one, and chances are the last number will change. The only time it really changes is when the UBR or CNR is rebooted, and I know that UBR4.AZ hasn't be rebooted for nearly a year!!

With dialup using DHCP then the IP address changes each time you login, assuming the IP address isn't being used by someone else. If it's available then you'll get the same one again. If it isn't then you'll get a new one, but once again in the same number range. I guess you could try and hide by dialling different POPs each time.

Anyway, reading this thread just pisses me right off. Everyone having a go at the mods and SDB. FFS they put a fair amount of there time into moderating this board, for free. And all some of you ******* on here can do is take the **** and try and start arguments. It so ****ing annoying and really pisses me off!! Grow up FFS!!!

If you don't like it then **** off somewhere else, that's all I can say

Cheers Phill C

 

Just to clarify things. Nothing has been set in stone. What is going on is active DISCUSSION about how to make things more consistant for everyone. Nothing has been decided.

The idea is to let everyone know, users, moderators and advertisers what is and is what not ok to post on Scoobynet, and what action could be taken.

But as I said in an earlier post it WILL be commercially unbiased, and it will be fair.

 

Ok then, my tuppence worth.
As I see it Gossy is a valeter who uses a certain brand of wax. Through his trade contacts he can offer a deal on this wax to the memebers of Scoobynet.
Surely if anything, he is doing himself OUT of work.

I was thinking of getting a full valet, wax etc, and gossy seems to be the man to do it. Now that I can get a good deal on the wax, i may just choose to do it myself.
I am, of course, a lazy git, so I probably won't do it myself but still, I see the Wax group buy as anti-advertising if anything.

Would the same apply if this was a non Scoob related product, e.g. I work for a Telecomms Company and can do anyone on this board a great deal on Mobile Phones, is this commercial advertising as I gain nothing from it?

 

hail-hail,

Sadly, you've summed up the problem IMHO.

Even with the best intentions, people will always be suspicious about such offers, and in some cases they would be well founded. The trouble is how do you know?

There's been a deluge of such posts over the last couple of months, and many are traders. Unfortunately it can be difficult to work it out.

Personally, I still feel the best group buys are those which can be seen to be independent of members.

Josh

 

so let me get this straight.....

gossy advertised a group buy on a cleaning / polishing product, but it was edited / removed because he himself is in the cleaning / polishing business (no joke intended *before* you start )

What would have happened if Gossy told a mate to post a reply for a group buy on the product?

Is it the fact that just *because* he's in the same field as a product he can get a group buy, It is not allowed?

So if I work for a computer company and I get an offer together for a group-buy, I'll be banned because I work in the same field?



[Edited by krankyd - 3/21/2003 10:06:04 AM]

 

Exactly, Luke. It's our contributions (even yours ) that 'make' SN.

[Edited by carl - 3/21/2003 10:25:36 AM]

 

I thank you.

 

Thanks for the comments Josh, it seems it comes back to the old problem, a pain in the **** few who spoil it for the genuine many.

I for one definaltey do not want traders posting here, and appreciate that banning all such posts is much easier that trying to weed out the few that are not genuine.

The mods do a good job on thier own time, and i appreciate it. Hopefully we can come up with something that will avoid this situation.

I don't have all the answers, but it does seem a shame that we miss out on good deals due to a few bad apples.

 

My word! Isn't it amazing how the voice of a VERY VERY small minority can sound so loud, even in the face of such obvious and widespread disagreement.

The job of the moderators and myself is to make sure that we amplify the quietly spoken MAJORITY so that ScoobyNet is a place that the MAJORITY want to stay. Bullies and self proclaimed experts have no ability or right to change the policy suggested by the majority on scoobynet.

John. You continue to surprise me.

Firstly, it is not for YOU to dicide what an advertising contract on scoobynet does or does not entitle advertisers to. But secondly, at NO TIME has what you have suggested ever been the case, and it is slander and insulting to me, scoobynet and the moderator team you used to be a part of, to suggest it. Are you suggesting that the moderators have "sold out". You kept commenting that nobody else will speak out. Well actually, they did to me, and they just simply dissagreed with you!

This is a lie and I really have no idea what twisted logic you have used to come up with it. People can recommend ANYTHING as long as they do not have a commercial interest in it. In the case of this thread, the thread starter DID have a commercial interest in the products. So was this comment a result of strange logic, or just argumentative?

--

I have just started to read down the rest of your post and am absolutely GOB SMACKED at your comments. Firstly, you are stating twisted versions of the truth, and secondly, (EVEN if they were accurate) you are publicly stating things that were *supposedly* discussed in private. I am shocked that your personal moral standards allow you to do this. Either way, it's irrelevant ....

This is simply a lie. You have once again filtered the truth in to a nasty version that means something totally different to the actual discussion.

The thread that you resigned over was a thread where a friend of yours who was not an advertiser, posted commercially on scoobynet. The thread was then edited in the same way as every other commercial post has been edited in the past (which you have never felt the nead to even question) and you decided to hurl a torrent of abuse at the moderator in question. Those are the simple facts of the situtation. We could argue about it all day, but if you can't answer the question of why your friends company should have received preferential treatment over other companies, there is absolutely no point. That kind of attitude is exactly the kind of "abusing a position of responsibility" situation that the moderators cannot afford to have.

Are you REALLY arrogant enough to think that out of 23,000 members and around 50,000 additional regular viewers that you are the ONLY person with enough experience and intelligence to know the answer to ANY questions?

You have never been restricted in answering questions of a technical nature, you were only asked to respect the community and the advertisers by not posting commercially in competition with the paying advertisers and bending the rules to suit your own personal situation.

You were not set-up as moderator because your friend worked for a car parts supplier, or for your knowledge of suppliers around the world. Get real john, stop twisting the facts to try to make it sound so evil and underhand. Respect everyone's intelligence enough to realise they will see straight through it.

That's right john.. well done. I want you to stop helping people with questions about their engines in order to give the advertisers more exposure. how ridiculous.

re: your example thread.

John, how can a non-advertiser's post being deleted in the same way as EVERY OTHER commercial post that we have edited in the past, constitute a decision to stop you giving advice? Where is all this coming from????

Moderation requires a GREAT DEAL of level headedness...

The advertisers pay scoobynet which in turn allows it to continue. If the advertisers stop paying us, scoobynet will fold. We have a policy which you agreed with and did not question until this thread, where non-advertiser's commercial posts will be removed with a note stating my email address so they could contact us for a banner ad. Even advertiser's commercial posts are moderated very carefully. Allowing your friend to post commercially does 2 main things...

a) irritates the PAYING advertisers as they will say "how come a mate of a moderator can post commercially without even paying, but nobody else can, not even me???"

b) shows the rest of the non-paying commercial posters that it's actually fine to do that.

result... we have a board filled with spam. Further result.. the advertisers think "sod it, no need to pay anymore, I'll just spam the board like john's mate".

If you can't see or handle that simple logic, I cannot see how this discussion could continue. It makes no difference how few answers there were to that question, the image it projects is that "it's fine to post commercially".

Wouldn't it be great if the world was perfect. But some of us have to deal with harsh realities in order to support the future good of scoobynet and the community it supports.

John.. That person was going to get BUSINESS out of this. It is not a case of selfless and totally free HELP. There is NOTHING WRONG with wanting to sell your products to people, but it is NOT just HELPING someone out!


How dare you! Should it be about what is best for johnfelstead??? You absolutely KNOW that my ONLY concerns are for the long term good of this community. I actually still have a written business plan for scoobynet which has a PRIME DIRECTIVE (apologies to all for the star trek reference!! ) which states...

All and ANY actions, be they commercially driven, or otherwise MUST be of direct benefit to the community that makes scoobynet possible

This is ALWAYS the thing I talk about when in meetings to decide future features / avenues of increasing revenue so that scoobynet does not continue to actually COST me money each year.

This is INCREDIBLE. You are making a blanket statement that useful contact details are being deleted! All of this based on one thread that was edited because it was a commercial post from your friend!??!? Common sense SHOULD tell you that the term "one rule for one, and one for everyone else" is immoral and dangerous.


Absolutely NOT. ANYBODY is able to give generic technical advice. If someone wants advice on which product to buy, or where to buy it from, surely you would not be naive enough to think that a supplier would say "well mate, we supply those but you'd be better off going to our competitor as they provide better service!!!"??? This is the reason that companies cannot promote THEMSELVES on scoobynet.

I am upset, but no longer surprised by your nasty attitude towards me personally, and the fact that you are getting so personal. When you resigned I posted a genuine and supportive reply to your thread so that you would not be insulted and so that your dirty laundry would not be washed in public. But the true facts are that you were no longer ABLE to moderate due to having your own agenda. You were the only moderator that took it on yourself to decide exactly how you would moderate and what you would moderate. EVERYONE else (including me) DISCUSSES policy and comes up with a solution based on the outcome of DISCUSSIONS BETWEEN US. This means that a broad view of the problem is analysed and everyone supports each other. You just decided you were your own law and order. You were no longer suitable as a moderator of a community that has high moral standards and the wants and needs of THE COMMUNITY as their most important focus (not that of themselves).

UNBELIEVABLE! Firstly, you DID NOT argue long and hard, you argued about your friend's commercial post being removed, insulting (brutally) one of the moderators and me at the same time. and you last comment about me reminding you that it was not your BBS and that you had to follow my dictate is a bitter and twisted (once again) version of the truth...

When you were telling that your way was how you were going to do it and that's final, I told you that it was NOT your BBS, and qualified that by saying that decisions are made by all of us, not just by YOU. I NEVER EVER said you must follow MY DICTATE! Do you REALLY believe what you are saying, or are you just hoping I won't reply????

---

In summary. You are insulting me, the moderators, the advertisers and the community on this board with everything you are saying. It stuns me that someone I used to have so much respect for has ON HIS OWN (this is not a common thing) changed so dramatically in their outlook. Got so incredibly wound up (like the people you used to say "just ban them", or "just delete their posts without explanation" have done for so long - at which point I've always told you that we will not just BAN people and DELETE posts in a dictatorial fassion. But of course, you know better, so what you say MUST go???

After your thread in the moderator's forum insulting me and another moderator I tried to call you a number of times, but you never answered your phone. You then stated that you didn't want to talk to me. Well, personally I'd rather deal with people who are strong enough to talk in person and discuss a situation like an adult than someone who stores it all up and then blows it all out on a public forum.

The offer to talk is still there, but I very much doubt you will be big enough to take it.

Until then, please abide by the rules of scoobynet and in particular one of the ones that you were very passionate about, and keep your posts positive and in the spirit of the community.

regards

Simon

PS. Re: IP Addresses. There are MANY MANY other ways we / the police can trace users if the need arrises - which it VERY rarely does... another tribute to this fabulous community that it can be so large and so "good" at the same time.

[Edited by webmaster - 3/21/2003 11:18:50 AM]

 

Hi Josh, i wont comment on the rest, but using the thread i did as an example is fair IMHO, as none of the members of this BBS saw the discusion that provoked in the moderators forum. (plus it was the first that came to mind for me, it's just illustrating a point) I doubt they would want to either, it wasn't very pleasant.

Of course, SDB and the moderators play a major role in this BBS, without them, there wouldnt be a BBS. However, it's the members of this forum that make it what it is in terms of content, if they all stopped posting the BBS would die, as would the revenue that generates to keep the server running.

It's a balancing act, being too draconian will kill any future growth, especially where new supliers to the comunity is concerned.

It may still be up for debate Neil, but the policy as it stands now, is being enforced the way i describe it, if me saying what i am saying here adds to the debate and helps keep this BBS a usefull, unbiased place, then i have acheived something positive, i am not holding my breath right now.

 

hail-hail

you are absolutely right.

One or two companies can indeed spoil this for EVERYONE.

It's a REAL shame.

---

The advertisers do not make scoobynet, nobody is suggesting that. But the advertisers are also NECESSARY and a respected part of this community. Without them, scoobynet could not exist. Without the community, scoobynet could not exist. Simply a reality.

All the best

Simon

 

Missed your post Simon, and i dont have time to read it properly yet so i wont comment now. Please stop SHOUTING though, it does you no favours.

One thing i would like to say, as i picked that up mid quick read. I am not arogant thinking i am the only person that may be able to answer a question. I do however find it utterly absurd to allow a member of this BBS to stew, waiting for a response to a question for maybe days, when i know how to help.

 

In light of all the dramas going on in another part of the world, with tensions high, can you please deleted this thread, as it's getting on my **** now!!! All I can hear is B52 flying over head, and life seems to short for all this. Put your hand bags down and take a chill pill!!!

Cheers Phill

 

agreed

this thread will now be locked.

John, if you would like to continue to discuss this, you have my phone numbers and email addresses.

regards

simon