Brendan Hughes

akshay - no more info on kateda, sorry, but I'd avoid like the plague. It looked like something that a green belt invented to reap loads of money off people who'd just watched a few bruce lee videos.

LG John

No insult taken I have the good sense, and more importantly respect, not to question someone that has put in the time commitment to learning a martial art that you have. My ‘jump back and kick’ comment was clearly largely a throw away example but for me would be the one I’d most likely use. The reason for this is simple: By stepping back you are moving away from the danger therefore you’re giving yourself time to think and space to operate and more importantly if with the counter kick you **** up (likely) at least you won’t get hurt. Also, even if you miss the kick, if it’s a well executed kick with a loud ki-up it’ll have an intimidation factor that might instil a seed of doubt in the attacker (i.e. what’s this boy all about?) which could work to your advantage (unless he’s a smack head or nutter). Most black belts and experts that I’ve seen would (usually) choose to move inside the punch (missing it of course) and attack or apply a technique, throw, whatever. Great if you’ve got the training/confidence for it but if joe scoobynet moved inside our boxer friend would probably put his other fist through his face

Keep em’ at a distance I say, and don’t forget legs are longer than arms

Brendan Hughes

>>>and don’t forget legs are longer than arms


And also don't forget they're slower above the waist

LG John

Considering you teach one of the most (if not THE MOST) kick based martial art styles you don't really bang the kicking drums

The Zohan

Used to do Shotokan(sp) many, many years ago and enjoyed it no experience of others other than Judo as a youngster. All will get you fit and supple and good for the mind and soul

LG John

Yeah, getting flexible has been one of the most interesting thing for me so far. Its so interesting to watch how your body changes and can stretch more than before

akshay67

Given that there are quite a few of you which martial arts experience...I have a question - funnily enough put into my mind after chatting to a Ju-Jitsu guy...

He said that a massive fight broke out at a ju-jitsu tournament and everyone walked away unhurt! This is because when learning a martial art, you never learn how to hurt someone - i.e. how often to you leave someone you are training with for dead?

In another conversation, a guy said that a martial arts specialist got started on in a club and he threw a really powerful punch, made lots of noise, but didn't follow the punch threw. The opponent just laughed and head-butted him!

Is this a pitfall in the 'usefulness' of martial arts?

Personally, I would not want to be faced with a martial arts expert in a ruck!

Brendan Hughes

I can identify with that, I'm afraid.

There are a few factors involved:
1. Do you train using some or no contact? Most people don't want a new broken bone every week, so they get used to stopping short, and can't follow through when needed.
2. Do you go into tournaments, and what level of contact are they? WTF TKD is full contact, ITF TKD (and I believe the two most common styles of karate, shotokhan and wado-ryu) is semi-contact. I hardly ever did tournaments.
3. Are you scared of doing real damage to someone? I am (except for one notable occasion, but he had a big knife).

Bear it in mind when you're training.

LG John

I kind of though/hoped that when it counted your body/mind would make the distinction between training and real life and do what's required

LG John

We are also made to 'train like we fight'. In other words you earn yourself 20 pressups if your not practising your punches and kicks with power and focus. Its easy to go through your kicking drills without putting power in but if you always kick and punch with power and conviction then your muscles will a) get worked out b) develop muscle-memory to always act like that. Our sparing is 'light' contact.

LG John

Well at least my side-kicks will be ok. Me and my mate have a dirty great big pad that you hold into your side. The aim of the game is to try and kick your opponent (via the pad of course) accross the room Got to be careful though because if you try to stand your ground you can kiss your ribs goodbye

Katana

Oh you got yourself a kick pad. Keep in mind that in real life that if you kick your opponent wrong, you'll shatter your ankle. Especially since the human body has weird line and contours. It takes loads of practice and even experienced martial artists finds it difficult..

LG John

Weird, how? If you kick the pad wrong it can hurt a little but surely you'd have to get it waaaaaay wrong to wreck your ankle!

BTW, I held the pad to our instructor a few weeks ago and he could say I was bricking it. He said, 'don't worry I'll not take a step in and go light' It was still the hardest kick I'd felt The power went straight through the pad and into me Kinda cool I actually like the pressure points, locks, etc being demonstraited on me

Katana

Haha I know. But I don't like it being used on me though. I prefer applying it to other people.

LG John

I remember when one of the black belts was teaching some of us how to find the pressure point on your hand (the one everyone knows in the soft bit next to your thumb). He got us to find it on ourselves, which I did. He then said, 'have you got it', I said, 'Yeah, but show me anyway' He did.....and I hit the deck and begged for him to release There is finding a pressure point........and FINDING a pressure point

Katana

Hehe but try applying it in real life. Its bad enough fumbling around looking for it. What more when the guy is constantly moving. Thats why I prefer the traditional chokes and locks over pressure points. Much easier to execute, especially since I'm short.

LG John

Could be useful when your on the deck rolling around though. Leg locks are the worst!! Its horrible when you feel them big long bones beginning to bend

LG John

One of out black-belts was also a doorman and when a big scrap broke out he somehow ended up on the deck with a 20 stone guy sitting on him. He bit his ***** Not sure that is part of the curriculum though

Ralf

As far as I can tell a big guy is less likely to be attacked than a smaller one. Almost all dark/black belts that I know look rather skinny. But of course they are extremely fit and could hit anyone before they even blinked. One made me (6 foot 2, 15 stones, faaar bigger than him) fly two yards through the air from less than an arm's length. But that is only after the fight has started. My Instructor keeps on repeating a fight you don't have to fight is the best you can have.

Back to what I meant to say. If you look big and as 'the trouble is me!' (Hello Lois XIV) the fight won't even start! Better work on that somehow. Martial arts will bring you fitness and self confidence. And over confidence as well, just because you learnt a few hits. There is no substitute for the real thing. And a potential attacker looks for a victim IMHO, not for a nice, clean challenging competition. Also, in the street there are no rules: Knives, clubs, guns, attacks from behind, seven against one just for fun and so on.

A very good book at last: Watch my Back by Geoff Thompson, doorman and martial artist.

So much more to say but every situation is different. Just stay out of trouble.

Cheers

akshay67

Interesting points Ralf.

I'd add that I have a friend who is 6'5" and 18 Stones. While he generally does not get any trouble, occassionally he gets seen as a 'challenge' where a handful of guys will start to give him the 'eye' (he can be paranoid at times) - often one thing leads to another and touch wood things haven't really gone as far as a fight, they do get far enough. Since I am with him, I'd be a much obvious target to attack if he's inflammed some aggression.

I agree, the best fight is one you don't have. I'm a world champion!

LG John

I think its good to know how to handle yourself in the streets today. A mate of mine got lamped in the mouth at the expense of his tooth because he politely (and I stress politely) pointed out to a guy that he'd just skipped the que! I also remember one time I was standing at a taxi rank (had been for 30mins) and some ned pushed right in front of me. His other ned mate said, 'we can't do this man' and he replied (knowing I could hear him) 'yeah, but what's he (me) going to do' Clearly he just wanted a fight and I wasn't going to give him one. To this day I'd still do nothing but maybe (and I stress maybe) one day I'll be confident (and have the skills to back that confidence up) enough to say, '**** off boys and get to the back like everyone else'

Instead they bullied their way into the cab. What a sad world we live in

akshay67

Considering:

• I'm 26
• Want to do it once a week (Sundays)
• Has to be practical (i.e. usable in worst case scenario)
• Easy enough to pick-up
• I broke my right arm 7 months ago, required operation and
  plating, its OK now, but dont want to risk taking a massive a
  blow or start breaking bricks
• It has to be well-known rather that something Bob does at the
  local school sports hall

Any input helpful!


[Edited by akshay67 - 4/11/2003 12:45:15 AM]

Ray_li

To become an all round fighter you would need to cross train. The best arts for that would be Boxing (best hand to hand combat) Kict-boxing or thai-boxing (best kicking art) and a form of grappling (fighting on the floor) like ju-jitsu. But you fight the way you train! if you spend your time training a form of grappling you will end up fighting on the floor in a street situation and thats the last place you want to be, when his got mates with him.

Ray

[Edited by Ray_li - 4/11/2003 10:25:58 AM]

Katana

Ain't going to happen bud. Why do you think a lot of us martial artist "pressure test" our techniques. Its one thing being able to hold the form, its another to follow through it. Remember, in real life situation, you don't think when you fight but let it flow out of you. If you spend too much time thinking you're dead. Unless of course you're like a computer and can think really really quick or youtake the pace out from the fight and slow it down..

[Edited by Katana - 4/11/2003 7:06:46 PM]