Mr Footlong

iTrader: (7)

Fecking typo's

Jye

As my old man used to say Nick, you don’t get nothing for nothing

Pc's are like HI-Fi, my Tag McLaren CD player and DAC cost me over three grand. Is it 100% better than a good £1500 one box setup? I doubt it. Law of diminishing returns aint it, same with PC's. I'd say a 16.5% (usually more) increase is pretty good considering the current state of play with CPU's, and once the 200 Mhz Bartons etc hit the shelf all those high voltages and voltage mods will soon seem like a waste of time.

**** manufacturers are starting to jump on the OC'ing band wagon anyhow; I see that Gainward are thinking of mass producing a water-cooled FX. Just shows you.

Mr Footlong

iTrader: (7)

That FX watercooler design is a pure work of art tho At least they are being sensible and seperating out the core and ram heatblocks. Whoever said that BGA ram doesn't get hot was talking out of their bottom. My BGA Ramsinks burn to touch and that is without overclocking. Hell, at least it shows that I got the epoxy mix spot on .

super_si

Jye, ill let you know.

At the moment its not working, seem to think its the compressor.Also chip-con told me after the ATX conditioner doesnt work with every PSU!!

Under warranty so chip-con have to to either replace, fix or refund me.

Either way its getting sorted.

If i get it back then im selling. As its ott, ive got it out my system now.

Si

Jye

super_si

Im poor studnet lol, wish id spent the grand on another mtb

Jye

Get that Raddy clocked 'now' Nick and give us another 3D Mark, you 'know' it can do a stable and pain free 'sensible' OC

BTW just bought and would highly reccomend the Vantec Nexus fan controller, also nabbed a smaller back lit 3.5" alloy bay temp sensor for my mp3 box (green back light which looks great with the Matrix VFD). I needed the small temp sensor to free up a 5.25 bay for the Vantec as the greedy VFD takes up 2 5.25 bays, silence at last

Will fire some piccies of it up asap.

Also ordered an Abit NF7-S (V1.2), will let you know how it fairs when I get round to buying some XMS TwinX, **** there goes more beer tokens

Right I'm off to me kip to dream of P1 getting me 0.5% gains from my ISA's

P1 Enthusiast

Jye,

Well firstly if you had bothered to read my posts you would notice that the main reason i advocate the SLK and fan in the first place is due to the REUSEABLE nature of it! Its not a sunk cost to get technical on your ***! He can use it in subsequent builds.

So thus the 400% argument holds good for the cpu ;-)

Your argument for 16.5% due to the l2 cache is well a SIMULATION, i cannot really be bothered to dig out games simulations and real applications etc to show that this is nowhere near the real everyday benefit of that cache, its nowhere near it.

My argument seems to boil down to this;

a) An Xp2100+ will give the same if not 99% of the performance of a Barton 3000+ (O'Clocked 2100+ versus Stock Barton 3000+) for 25% of the cash - SAVING 200 quid on cpu

b) To do this he will need an SLK900 + 30CFM fan + thermal pad, of which, the SLK and fan are reuseable in his next rig. Costing about 60 pounds (NOT SUNK COST)

c) Slightly different motherboard. Voltage may also need changing to 1.85V from 1.78V - no big deal, its a bios change.

d) Secondary Argument - If you must have a barton buy a 2500+ and clock it to the same levels as the 3000+, saving about 100 quid minus the SLK and fan.

So my argument is to save him money, to get him the performance he deserves for the price he pays.


Yours is this - If you can afford it get it? Oh and also that games regularly are bottle necked by a 3 gig cpu - riiiiiiiggghhhhhhhhttt!


I mean FFS do you go to the Scooby dealer and get "Yes sir our Impreza Turbo is 21,000 quid today BUT you have the PPP with 15% more power for ONLY 49,000 quid? (using 120 quid total build for my argument versus 280 for yours analagy)

Your lack of wanting value for your money worries me greatly Jye - its why the british economy is allowed to be screwed over so much by bad pricing from multi nationals to extort us /golf clap.


P.S. Have a Vantec Fan controller on my rig, its great

P.P.S. You can have a 3d mark score when i get my hercules 9800 pro, since its still pre-ordered atmo and not delivered yet.

P1 Enthusiast

Btw Nick is your magazine spread out yet?

super_si

Just rang my supplier Jye, Apparently im ment to be getting a Brand new Unit sent to me. If they keep dragging this out it may even be the Mach II version.

They were saying mines the 2nd unit to fail recently.

Up to you if you want it or not. Or anyone else.

If it is brand new it'll be untouched,

more Information here

Si

[Edited by super_si - 4/24/2003 2:48:31 PM]

Jye

OK then I’m not going to argue this much longer, not because I'm not an argumentative sod (cos I am ) but because we have both had enough SN bandwidth to state the 'for and against', and Nick (who is a God btw ) agrees with ME. LOL.

I guess in car terms you prefer a souped up Nova, screaming along with a maxed out engine under the bonnet (as long as its radiator is big enough), but hey whatever pumps your nads. I'll stick to an unstressed Scooby any day

I think its great you OC P1, I've been doing it since my first PC's hit the desk in the mid 1980’s, 'but' the reasons for and arguments for OC'ing are becoming less weighty, less relevant and less of an attraction. We don’t want geeky solutions, just a bit of extra speed for as little hassle as possible. I’m sure Neil would rather have an easy to live with, quiet fast PC than a forum geeks wet dream

And btw, are you one of these guys who think the GPU does everything under the sun? Get real. When I went from my GF4 to my OC’ed Raddy 9800 Pro my FPS in GP4 went up about 3 FPS (if that), when I changed from an AMD 2.1 (OC’ed slightly) to the 2.4 (OC’ed slightly) my FPS went up by 18 straight away. Why? Well because amazingly loads of games still do massive calculations behind the scenes. ‘Any’ game, and I mean ‘any’ game which requires complex mathematical calculations will max out ‘any’ of today’s processors. This covers most simulation games, the ones us ‘adults’ play, although perhaps you’re still playing platformer’s with your ‘Cube’ or some other kiddie box, but I suppose this will stop your frying pan hot box from complete meltdown in the summer though

One more thing P1, I think it’s a shame that you have such a blinkered view (tightwad ) of spending cash as far as CPU's are concerned. The 2.4 can be had for only £20 more than your 'wee' 2.1. A good 2.4 clocks to over 3000+ speeds np (14 X 166) without ‘any’ increase in voltages, does not need a £80 heatsink/fan/shim combo (goes great with a £25 Vantec Aeroflow), runs cool, is very quiet, is easier to fit, setup and live with than the geeky and overweight SLK, and guess what, I'm even quid’s in on you m8, as all this can be had for £26 quid less than your humongous combo, ROFLMAO

All in good humour m8 btw

P1 Enthusiast

Well interesting that your last post makes the most sense!

Up until now you have been saying buy the MASSIVELY overpriced 3000+ which is utter madness, its a bit like going to see a movie and being charged 50 quid, a right rip off.

My argument all along has been not to buy the rip off cpu, which it is, there is no defending that. I too am a massive Vantec Aeroflow fan and its a great solution for mild overclocking such as you suggest with the 2400+, but i wanted to give him true value for money and also more importantly 2 great items to take to his next rig, the SLK900 and the quality low noise and high CFM fan. The SLK900 is supposed to be the right size for the new 64 bit cpu, hence the suggestion whereas the Vantec will be useless. One to me

Anyway Neil let us know what you do there has been some good advice here, plz dont buy the Barton 3000+ after all this! :O

As for your other comments Jay, well i fly about at Mach 0.866 everyday in my job (about to become the fastest commercial jet available when concorde retires) and have a P1 so i am quite content with my life mate. Hopefully your mum is still doing a good job of keeping your room tidy

Take care mate, till next we meet

Neil Smalley

Cheers for the advice.

Do I need to unlock the processor to OC it. The 2400XP sounds a good idea as if it does'nt work that well I still have a fairly quick machine.

Can some kind soul spec me out something, that will work as knowing my it'll go bang as soon as I plug the thing in.

P1 Enthusiast

www.overclockers.co.uk

You need;

XP2400+ or Barton2500+ (your call)
Vantec Aeroflow or SLK900 + 30CFM Pabst or Panaflo fan (quiet)
Epox 8RDA+ board

Total: 200 ish quid max

super_si

2700 is £15 more i was told

Si

Neil Smalley

Cheers

Now do I need to do any faffing around to get the processor to overclock, or should it be just a matter of messing around in the Bios?

J1nxy

I would pay the extra £15 or so and go for the 2700XP with the 333FSB from www.overclockingstore.co.uk as they have, from experience, significantly better customer service, and their prices already include P&P.

If you dont want to overclock, save your cash and buy a heatsink suitable for the processor now, maybe the AMD retail pack. Oh and there nothing wrong with the A7N8X.....

The big advantage with buying the FSB333 processor is it;s GUARENTEED to work at FSB333, unlike overclocking, which if you get a duff or slightly flaky processor with not overclock very far at all.

My 2ps worth...........

Steve

Jye

Take J1nxy's advice or try www.kustompcs.co.uk. Blowdog just bought a full system off them and had nothing but praise. I use them all the time as they are just top for service, returns and good advice. They only stock good kit and wont sell you something which you dont need or can do without.

I still say get the Vantec Aeroflow, its a good smooth quiet compact HS/fan unit which has its bearings on the outside rim for very low noise), It will take a reasonable OC if needed, is very quiet, uses all the mounting lugs for a secure fit, is a complete and utter doddle to mount on any' motherboard and is reasonably priced

Keep me posted Si.

BTW, peace and love P1

P1 Enthusiast

Jinxy back in your box mate, dont talk ****e the 2400 and 2100+ both ALWAYS work at FSB333, so pls dont give bad advice. He doesnt need a 2700+ as we have now agreed on a mild overclock which will surpass that 2700 speed, so lets just settle on a 2400+ for him - stop bumping the man up and WASTING his cash!

www.kustompcs.co.uk - poor stock selection in some area's, good service tho

www.overclockers.co.uk - price match, excellent service, excellent stock and selection

www.overclockingstore.co.uk - more expensive than overclockers.co.uk

J1nxy

Fine...........guarenteed every time on every board....if you say so.

Neil, you know my view, and have had other peoples views as well. I know the choice I made, and I know how I feel about overclocking, a little is ok, its called design tollerances.

oh and cheapest is not always best either...............

Steve

Jye

That’s appalling language P1, and for an ambassador of commercial air travel, oh dear oh dear. Especially poor show considering air travel is sinking faster than a brick doing mach 0.866 (you sure it isn’t mach 0.88650? ).

Do you talk to your passengers like that? “This is Captain P1 Enthusiast. Get back in your seats where you belong you spendthrift plebs. How dare you bother with 1st class seats when you can get the same speed for £35 a return second class plus taxes. And by the way we are using overclocked chips to save a few quid on our fly by wire systems, have a nice day”, lol

I bet your Carlos Fandango ‘sooper’ profitable airline doesn’t believe in Coronary Thrombosis either, I suppose it only affects 0.5% of all passengers though. Still, at least the price of a cheap flight will get you a tank of ‘sooper’ for the old P1 at the end of the day, LOL

Can I just say that O*********s UK are ‘fantastically’ and utterly s***e, I’d say far, far more but this topic has already been well covered in other threads. I foolishly used them for a while and had nothing but grief even though I spent a small fortune with them over a period of a year or so. Anyone considering using them should do a quick search in Google groups for ‘Problems with O*********s UK and see what I mean

Think you must be a sucker for the ‘profits before people’ approach if you buy from those monkeys P1, but then you ‘are’ a commercial pilot

Oh well, its nn from me I guess: me who seemingly doesn’t need to pilot an air born cattle truck to make enough money to run a Scoob ‘and’ save £100 on his PC . Sh*t, I think my mummy just called for me to tidy my room, it must be all those discarded heatsinks , damn I could have used them for forty years but didn’t cos life’s too short, now I’ve got to pick them all up off the floor with all the other sh**e

Edited to say: peace and love P1


[Edited by Jye - 4/24/2003 11:04:10 PM]

Mr Footlong

iTrader: (7)

Dude, he's in the RAF LOL.

Jye

--about to become the fastest commercial jet available when concorde retires--

Doesn’t sound like it Nick, anyway mach 0.866 is a bit slow for me, I'd personally want at least mach 2.3 and a CF-105 Arrow or even a mach 2 F16, but then I'm a spendthrift

P1 Enthusiast

My jet is commercially available - i didnt say i flew the commercial variant nor do we use it in that role, we use it for a couple of different things

We cannot all fly fighters, besides you dont get a decent curry and nice cabin supervisor in a small fighter whilst flying

Anyway i am sorry but the 2700+ advice is just rubbish, 2400+ at most is what you want to pay for, at end of day with decent heat sink and fan they all do the same speeds, why pay more?

Jye

Hat off to you then P1 for being smart enough to get a job flying planes (jealousy mode firmly on ), I'd love to fly planes for a living, and a free curry while your at it just sounds to good to be true

So what type of plane do you fly P1, if it’s OK to ask?

P1 Enthusiast

http://www.raf.mod.uk/downloads/g_images/vc1003.jpg
http://www.raf.mod.uk/downloads/g_images/vc1002.jpg

Those are the legal pictures i can show ya

J1nxy

The 2700 advice is MY opinion on the matter, if I'm spending £400 on a decent gfx card, and gonna buy decent memeory, motherboard, hard disk etc why skimp on £25 for the 2100 (With the slk900 and 92mm fan) or the £6 for the 2400 (With the slk900 and 92mm fan)?? compared to a 2700 with a decent heatsink and fan??

You have your opinion I have mine. I would rather have something which works out the box than have to bugger about with bios settings, over voltaging the CPU, memory etc, pissing about with FSB and multiplier settings and also wondering whether the other components can take the settings. That is my view my view only not anybody elses, I have this system and it works, day in day out no problems.............

Steve

Jye

Cheers P1, some cattle truck btw m8

super_si

getting canterwood with Dual XMS3500 next week.

After nicks 19k

Any estimates.........

Mr Footlong

iTrader: (7)

Nowhere near with your graphics card.