babber

I think this thread is funny as ****, I wanted my TEK 2.5 for nothing, but it wasn't going to happen, so I paid for it and 15 months later am well pleased with it. It's miles better than a PPP and far cheaper. Best money I've ever spent on the car IMHO

Phill

Andy McCord

The idea behind this thread was to try to establish the breakdown of the overall cost of Tek3 mapping, i.e whos biting the biggest chunk of the cost, the mapper or the creator, were not naive enough to think we can get something for nothing, I was just trying to find out exactly were my hard earned dosh was going,

I guess the way to go with the cost of a remap if you are not happy with the price is to do exactly what i did & arrange a groupbuy with a reputable & well thought off company (BRD) who are quite happy every so often to oblige in a group mapping session at an excellent discounted rate .

Trying to get behing the cost off TEK3 was like headbutting a wall, arranging a groupbuy was far easier of an experience

So if you are unhappy with the cost of TEK3 do something about it & arrange a groupbuy then we are all

SCOOBY TOWERS

iTrader: (7)

Well that'll be a first

chiark

Quote from Adam M:

Adam, you want to read the Ecutek small print! "No warranty" is what it says in around 2 pages of delightful prose that any lawyer would be proud of. Well, they might not be proud of it, there's punctuation in the document

Anyhow, back to the point...

You're all sitting there using a PC, aren't you?

You're probably using Microsoft software on your PC.

Why? You could write your own, or download an open source OS and use that. But then you couldn't use Word... But it's only a word processor, so why not just write your own?

I'm all for having a go at things myself (kitchen, bathroom, decorating etc) but there's some things that take a lot of skill and unquestionably are learnt from experience. To extend the DIY analogy, watch how easy a plasterer makes plastering a wall look. Then you try it...

Mapping a car is an area where you're balancing risk of blowing up an engine against return in terms of torque, power or drivability.

So to anyone who keeps carping on "blimey! we're in the wrong business", go on and set up a business. The "demand" is obviously there for dirt cheap mapping, however I would guess that you won't get much custom without a lot of investment in time and money to set yourselves up.

This is not a case of rip-off Britain, it's bloody marvellous that someone (Stephen Done) has created an industry mapping an ECU that, up until a couple of years ago, was thought to be completely un-remappable! Even prodrive were using piggyback boards... And what do they use now? Bingo...

The group of people who map cars and have a golden reputation is small. If I had the money, I know exactly who I'd use based on reputation alone. In this game, that's everything IMHO. You're paying for experience and knowledge that is hard earned.

Cheers,
Nick.

VinnyP!

I've got a Motec and it cost an arm and a leg; on top of that I pay labour to have it mapped, I know how much that is I pay by the hour. It's a lot of money but I know the expertise is worth it to me.
Why can't the Ecutec be priced in the same way, it's only a software install and set up ie you pay for the software then pay for the mappers time to set it up.
All software has a cost factor but I know how much it is when I buy it, everything else I buy for the car is broken down into parts and Labour.
Then you pay for what you want, seems a standard Scoob with a decat and filter would only require a map that the mapper has already been paid for many times over but a bespoke map on a more exotic set up would cost more.

Vince

hawkeye

Another point is that there is HUGE differences in prices BETWEEN mappers for the Ecutek 3. Some quote around £650 with 1 as high as £1000 whats going on there then????

Also some say they map on a rolling road others in real time on the road. You pays your money you takes your chance.


hawk

chiark

Vince,

The pre-determined map is called Tek 2. All engines have different tolerances, breathing, susceptibility to knock, etc... so are able to be pushed a little more in different ways before things get into an unhappy state.

Tek 2 is a "standard" off the shelf map. Tek 3 is customised to the car.

I could be horribly wrong, as always

Cheers,
Nick.

Twigster Home

There does seem to be an awful lot of anger expressed at people's opinions here! I, like some other people beleive that there is nothing wrong with questioning why people charge as much as they do on anything, be it petrol or re-maps, and there does seem to be an unwillingness to disclose why the prices are as high as they are. Granted, the development time and expertise of the mapper is recognised and appreciated, especially now I have tried one on my car (Many thanks again to Babber ). However, I do find it surprising that someone has not come forward to break down the price so it is understandable to everyone. All we know at present is there is a large chunk for the license, and some for development time and the rest is profit for the mapper, but can someone explain it all indvidually?
For the record, after yesterday I no longer question the price as I did before after experiencing the difference!

Andy McCord

Nick, are you implying that if i dont like the current crime situation in this country than i should join the police force

chiark

Sorry if it came across as anger - sometimes my posts are a little blunt - there's no anger here...

The point I'm trying to make is that mapping is a difficult skill, and you are paying for the skill. It may only appear to be three hours work, but it's a shedload more in reality. After all, you've got sales, support and all manner of things to factor in... It isn't just "buy a laptop and license and you're a mapper".

I'd *much* rather pay someone for a skill like mapping where value is being added than, for example, pay someone for a set of brakes at 100% mark-up when there's **** all that the middleman is doing rather than supply parts from the manufacturer based on good experience of that brand from another supplier, therefore incurring no R&D. Some of the time, vendors use a "just in time" approach and deliver to you direct from the manufacturer, or order the stuff when a firm order is in. And no, I'm not pointing any fingers anywhere!

With mapping, you get an individual service tailored to your requirements. That will always command a premium due to the level of skill involved in delivering to your requirements. You can buy off the shelf (superchips etc) but look at the comments that they get on here (PPP excepted)

Supply and demand dictates price. That's capitalism for you. The joyous thing is that there's nothing stopping others from entering the market providing they have the technical aptitude and the desire to learn.

And if you don't like the situation with crime, do something about it. That doesn't mean joining the police force, it could be something simple as getting involved or setting up a neighbourhood watch

There's nothing wrong with questioning pricing, but when someone thinks that mapping is three hours work for anyone with a laptop and some software, then I personally reckon that's waaaay wide of the mark . Of course, I could be the one that's mistaken

Cheers,
Nick.

PS - I've seen one mapper at work, and he's simply brilliant. Pat was working on David Wallis' car one evening when I was around, and it's the generic knowledge for where to look and what to do to get things working that must take years to accumulate. Oscilloscopes were involved to check what signals were going where. It left me utterly amazed that any car with an ECU ever moves... The ECU was new to Pat (IIRC) and was the wrong spec for the car but, despite that, it was made to run the car which it really shouldn't have done... It also made me think there'd be no way I'd try to map an engine without understanding every little bit of what's going on in detail so that when things don't work I would know where to look...

[Edited by chiark - 8/26/2003 12:26:39 PM]

Diablo

LOL people pay hundereds for an exhaust, thousands for wheels and tyres and then moan about the cost of a remap

Real irony here given the remap will make more difference than some bent steel tubing.

I wonder how much material is in that exhaust? A few quids worth of steel but not much more.

It gets better, did any one moan when paying £000's for those nice new double glazed windows we all seem to be buying?

Probably not. Bet you felt good when the salesman knocked a few hundered off the price.

How would you feel if you knew that every replacement window in your house cost about £100 to make, including labour and glass.

And thats a real analogy.

Remaps are, imo, pretty good value for money.

D

Fatman

One of the reasons could be that there might be a clause in the ECUtek software license that details such as license costs cannot be made public. I've no idea if this is the case, but I know I'd use such a clause if I were writing that contract.

Andy McCord

Nick, I have to say that with regards to your comments "supply & demand dictates price" one piece of info that i did receive regards pricing from one of the mapping fraternity certainly led me to believe that other influences were at work other than supply & demand .

Im sure after the 11th of october i also will be smiling , from what i have read about these guys they are all genuises, I guess it was all the cloak & dagger regards pricing that made me post this thread originally, it would appear a 50/50 split in terms of opinions.

I understand the comments regards hundreds of £'s being spent on exhausts etc, but having said that, there is no real resale value with TEK3 as opposed to say an exhaust.

As i have said B4, until there is a more expanse of different software providers (Not ecus) appearing in this country the prices will remain as they are currently are now, but you cannot beat a bit of people power when it comes to getting the price down condsiderably 4 the better.

cheers
Andy roll on the 11th Oct

Hong Kong Phooey

So why is there such a price difference between 'mapping' the older cars and the 99-00 versions?

I've read that it costs c.£65.00 to get about 30bhp from scoobyecu for the older model year. Why is it 10x more for my00?

Jza

"LOL people pay hundereds for an exhaust, thousands for wheels and tyres and then moan about the cost of a remap"

Think i hear the sound of a nail hit on the head diablo...

A set of good tyres even....

Jza

akshay67

Why??!!?? Anyone do a sub-£100 map for the 99-00 models?

Hong Kong Phooey

akshay67,

why what?
I don't understand your reply.

Andy McCord

I think he believes that you are saying that there are remapped ecus being sold 4 £65

akshay67

Sorry...I just wanted to know why are those remaps so cheap? Surely someone must be able to do it for that much for the later models...

Brun

The Scoobyecu is a piggyback chip innit?

Hong Kong Phooey

I am Andy, but only for the older model years (93-96)

See this thread

I am wondering why it is so much cheaper.

Scooby96

Wurzel,

Stuff like petrol, **** are more heavily taxed in the UK so this makes a difference in the price - I blame BLIAR!

[Edited by Scooby96 - 9/1/2003 1:46:55 PM]

Edited again as my post states the date and time as:
posted Thursday, January 09, 2003 13:42

I posted this Monday, September 01, 2003 13.40ish

[Edited by Scooby96 - 9/1/2003 1:48:02 PM]

Scooby96

Andy if you arranged a group buy on TEK3 then I would guess that the mapper him/herself is taking a good % of the cost as if the majority of the cost was due to licensing there wouldnt be a great margin with which the mapper could 'play with'.

How much was / is the group buy price?

Scooby96

Diablo,

Not sure where eveyone gets their upvc d/g windows from but I only pay £200 a time for mine and that includes fitting. Best suggestion would be search for a VFM price rather than going for the cheapest.

Simple, if you want something then pay for it, if you cant afford it or it seems to expensive then DONT buy it!

Andy McCord

NotoriousREV, like you said, unfortunately on this market theres only one stall


[Edited by Andy McCord - 6/12/2003 10:12:56 AM]