rapac

Agree with speed limits in OZ but not many will stick with it including myself eg NT.I also believe that more damage is done when not pushed
As for wrxs pushed hard in OZ very few can dispute that they dont, hence the best 1/4 times.
The ones which fail(very very few) are modified running heaps of boost and not all the hardware in place (fmi,stronger engine,fuel,tuned properly etc etc)
You can build orhave the best engine but if not tuned properly it will fail .

I guess the bigest test and way of eliminating some of the said conclusions will be to put a number of topics on OZ(and other countries including UK) web sites (mrt.forums-wrx )such as:
What oil using on ur wrx?
Do you prefill filter when changing oil?
Or remove spark plugs?
Who has an oil cooler?
Why did your engine fail?
Issues with stock wrx?
Engine issues when car is modified?
How much hp and what mods?
Big end failure?
Import wrx issues?

etc etc


Cheers

rapac

Check on www.wrx.net.au under forums general discussion with topic "What fuel on 100% jap wrx



Cheers

Pete Croney

John

API would get my vote from your list. I would have included myself but we already have 4 builds in progress.

Wrexy

The pre 01 AUS STi is unique in that it is delimited at the factory. There are speed related fuel enrichment routines in the standard map but these never get reached in JDM cars that come to Europe. This is because the converters and delimiters we use let the ECU think that the car never exceeds 180kmh.

Dead cranking after an oil change is a very wise precaution.

nom

So... what you arew saying is that a JDM that hasn't been converted to mph is going to have its fuelling much better sorted than one which has?

WREXY

Pete,

According to the Australian magazines I have, (Motor and Wheels), they quote that the OZ spec Version 5 & 6 STIs do have the speed limiter in place. Furthermore they report that a few version 5's blew their engines i.e. melted pistons cos they sat on the speed limiter of 180kph for too long. This was back in 1999.

Cheers,

George.

Pete Croney

Wrexy

I was told that the officially imported STis were factory delimited JDM cars. I stand corrected if they were still limited to 180kmh.

The enrichment is there to be seen in the standard software, but a speed limited version never goes fast enough to use it.

Nom, its not a 100% corrolation, but the vast majority of STi5 and 6 failures we have seen are closely linked to a very high speed run in the days or weeks just before the failure.

High speed = over 120mph.

I suspect that the humungous STi8 bonnet scoop is there for a good reason. ie To maintain IC airflow at very high speed.

nom

Pete - was just thinking if the ECU thought the car was going 120kmh rather than the 120mph it actually is/was, that it wouldn't be using the fuel enrichment you are speaking of when it should be?

Pete Croney

Correct Nom

krazy

OK.. so how come someone hasn't come up with a better way of removing the limiter? Don't skylines get a bit of ecu work done to take into account the removal of the speed limiter etc. cos the ecu expects it to be there to run correctly, when they are converted.

Does the scooby ecu take the speed signal into consideration when calculating fuelling etc (cos if as reported by secs it only ever sees 83 max or something like) wouldn't the fuelling be way out? Or does it use a gear/rpm map? Seems strange that they would use a similar de-limiter as on a p1 as on an import if it messes up the fuelling etc... could go to explain alot of the failures thou..

Bob Rawle

Hi Pete,
"The enrichment is there to be seen in the standard software"

What version do you have of Flash99 as "my" version doesn't seem to have this at all ? And the temp comp maps are flat apart from some boost solenoid duty adjustment.

If Steve has been working on Flash99 again then I must get on to him straight away but he was too busy last time I spoke.

Whilst speed limiting is present it doesn't affect fueling at all.

cheers

bob

RobJenks

Wrexy , your coment re the failure of Sti's , was apparently due to the use of low octane fuel .These blokes had blasted around Wanneroo raceway with ordinary unleaded fuel (95 octane).Given these vehicles were set up requiring the Jap 100 octane fuel - no surprise really.

Pete Croney

Bob

Worth you having a chat with Steve.

WREXY

Rob,

You are right. Just found the "Motor" magazine which is the June 1999 one and the article titled "Fuel fools STI" is where the fuelling issues are mentioned.

I thought the OZ specced STIs had their ECU detuned to suit the low octane fuel, however according to the article it is not the case. Everyone thought they had detuned them, and other articles, including ones from Motor, had stated this, however after the meltdows Subaru OZ admitted the ECU had not been touched hence the info in this article as opposed to earlier ones which had stated the ECU had been detuned.

The article does go on to say that in some seperate incidents some engine meltdowns were due to sitting on the speed limiter in top gear for too long.

Cheers,

George.

krazy

Ok, so now its thought the reason the uk seems to get so many engine failures is because of the limiter removal (and made even worse by the mph conversion? ie ecu sees only ever sees <83kmh at 150+ mph)
It does kinda make sense thou, sure all the higher octane fuel and ob's are gonna help, but if the above is true its still only masking the real problem?
how do the other de-limiters that leave the clocks in kph work, I guess they only see up to 180kmh then? (still better then 83 thou...)

rapac

I guess one has to wonder for some of the changes Subaru has done with new cars espessially the Sti (these changes were not done to accomodate the modified scene):
Bigger intercooler
Huge tmi scoop
Larger injectors
Higher psi fuel pump
Oil cooler.
Thinner oil
More efficient turbo
98 Ron fuel
And with everything, LESS KW,195 for OZ(Sti)????
What does it mean? Less heat on the engine??
There was only one condition when I rebuild engine to run 1.3 to 2bars boost (OE engine did not fail)from engine builder:
To install X type turbo,fmi,X injectors,X fuel pump,run on commercially available 98Ron fuel,X ECU (no AFM).
I specificaly asked engine builder:
Do I need oil cooler and he show me 3 race Subs in his shop: NO
Type of oil:Synthetic not above 10W
Oil changes: Every 5000kms,OE oil filter
He also told me car to run every 2 weeks minimum of 2X5 minutes 7000rpm drives (any gear exept 1st and 2nd) to clean carbon build up.
2 years later I can say that this guy knows his job (17 yrs building Sub engines mainly for race application)



Cheers

Bob Rawle

Overfilling is a possibility if it causes aeration of the oil, that would allow metal to metal contact if it got into the bearings. Common problem when a pump is trying too hard and cavitates although I can't envisage the extra 1/2 litre involved causing it.

bob

Bob Rawle

Pete, just spoke to Steve, you are not quite right as there are NO maps for this and nothing to see, all that happens is that as the speed increases the engine load value is modified to increase it, that would cause the ecu to use a slightly different map point but ... since the fuel map would be completely different for a custom remap no effect (or minimum) would be felt, in a car running the std ecu that would increase the fueling only because the fuel map is ever increasing. Since a custom remap needs the load scaling to be modified (extended) in any case afraid its not that important. If you feel its of help then redo the speed limit upwards and take off the converter so that the car reads Km again, speedo would go off the clock though and odometer would be km again.

You had me thinking I had missed an upgrade.

cheers

bob

krazy

Bob,

So those of us with imports and dials converted to mph and a standard ecu etc.. how much of a problem could this be? I assume the higher the speed the further 'out' the load values will be, Is it possible to modify/tweak just the load scaling rather than do a full remap?

Thanks.

GREEN SCOOBY

sounds like some subaru garages dont know how to service subaru's. wierd that.sounds like thats every ones problem with a failure. yeh right.

Bob Rawle

I would say that the effect is relatively minimal, the fueling is normally pretty rich in any case dependant on mods, extending the load scale means that timing and fueling has to be adjusted in amy case to match so its a remap or nothing in my view if you see what I mean, this would only help det related failures, extra fuel will help reduce cylinder temperatures and egt as well. I wouldn't want to rely on this as the saviour, type R and RA's could run more revs than the std STi's for the same speed.

I've heard that there are good and not so good dealers from many persons posting on this bbs, I don't use an official dealer myself so can't comment, the skill of a dealership is directly proportional to the skill and attention of its staff, I don't believe that all dealer employees are clones so therefore there must be variation, just my two penneth, fwiw the subaru tech bulletin asks dealers to pay specific attention to servicing procedure and not to make assumptions.

Bob

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

Update,,,, further to my post yesterday about the possible overfilling of oil by using the notch cut out above the max hole in the dipstick as a datum for filling to include an amount for a dry filter. And the thought that by doing so it might cause oil getting into the moving parts and causing aeriation.

With me so far??

Well, I actually bothered to check a dipstick today in relation to how far up the oil might need to be to get into the works.......

The dipstick is angled at the lower portion and in fact when you look at its position and angle in relation to a horizontal surface the cut out above the max hole is only about a tenth of an inch higher up rather the measurable 3 /8th's on the stick. If you don't follow look at a stick and holding it upright see the angle of the bottom part, it's about 45 degrees to vertical Then you'll follow.

ALSO the actual oil level even if filled to the higher [ wrong ] mark] is still about 2 or more inches below the lower edge of the cylinder bore. Fill it up that far and you've got bigger problems than the one that Subaru are trying to eliminate........

Assuming I've understood IM's thinking about the problem from this point of view I think it's safe to say it's unlikely that anybody would fill enough oil to get that far.

David API

crossy

I know what your going through. I have a 95 WRX and the big end has gone twice, firstly number 3 three, now number 4, should not cost more than £3K for re build. I've been told that its due to predetenation and i should of been using an octane booster. I had always used Optimax, but 98 Ron is not enough!!! good luck.

za-sti

interested to read this thread. My STi recently blew, no.2 piston. Usual stuff oil changed every 5k millers CFS10/60, Optimax and Millers OB every tank. Car has been driven hard.

The interesting thing is that the car came with a Motorplan warranty. However they are refusing to cover cost as they say it is an inherit design problem with the engine.

Have been reading this with great interest but still not sure how to aviod it again. I would appear that I was doing everything as suggested. I was thinking of a remap but Bob suggested this has no guarantees to fix it.

Very confused!

Cheers
Za

Bob Rawle

You will find that this is the line that all warranty companies will take these days, bit of a cheek really as their terms should specifically state that imho. i suspect that somewhere in the small print maybe ?

I answered a load of email last night on this, gross overfill will cause problems but, as mentioned, there really is a very small of difference in the dip stick due to the angle its at.

Aeration is a real problem dependant on circumstances, to clarify my previous post I was not saying that overfilling could make the pump aerate, only that subjecting the pump to adverse conditions could. For example I know that some uprated pumps have their plunger spring pressure increased, if that is overdone and the pump is trying to make too much pressure eventually it will cavitate if the oil is thin enough. There is no need to increase oil pressure above the normal 6 bar.

bob

hypoluxa

We are not alone

<quote> BMW has extended factory warranties on more than 17,000 M3 six-cylinder engines—a powerplant some owners have referred to as the “Engine of Damocles”—while it investigates the cause of a number of engine failures.

The standard four-year, 50,000-mile warranty is extended to six years and 100,000 miles on M3s, M coupes and M roadsters equipped with the 333-hp 3.2-liter engines. The extension covers vehicles with BMW designation “S54” engines built in model years 2001, 2002, and until further notice, 2003.

In a letter sent to owners in December, BMW confirmed “cases of damage to the connecting rod bearings resulting in engine failure” in the 3.2-liter engines. The company told owners it is “conducting an in-depth engineering analysis to determine the reason for the failure.”

In December, AutoWeek reported that more than 100 M3 owners had logged complaints online about potential engine problems. Some owners estimated that as many as 500 vehicles could be affected (AW, Dec. 2); BMW put the number at under 100 and said it was dealing with engine failures on a case-by-case basis.

BMW continues to urge M owners to use BMW-approved 10W60 synthetic oil instead of the usual 5W30. The company also recommends that the engine be properly warmed to normal operating temperature before full power is used, and that the accelerator should not be pumped when the vehicle is sitting still with no load on the engine. <end quote>

This quote refers to the US market only. The 10W60 btw is Castrol RS/TWS.

johnfelstead

That IM bulletin is a bit worrying if they think dry filling the oil filter is commonplace. They must do to issue that note?

It hasnt been mentioned here so i will just confirm what that notch is for. The dipstick has 3 marks (2 holes and a notch), these are; low level hole is minimum cold oil level. Upper hole is maximum cold oil level. Notch above the upper hole is maximum hot oil level.

krazy

I see. Thanks for the info..
A remap seems a good idea then with the lower temps and all that..

More out of curiosity, has there been a general increase in bearing failures in other make cars more recently? Looking on other sites, even some for some cars i've own previously and had no trouble with, it seems to be not uncommon? I was just wondering if the the reduction/change (usually for environmental reasons) of additives in oils could have some input here?

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

Krazy, to reply to:
More out of curiosity, has there been a general increase in bearing failures in other make cars more recently?

We've only repaired 5 Mitsubishi Evo engines in 3 years. l've done more Subaru engines so far in July 2003 than that.

There is a problem but what the actual cause is on a Subaru and how to cure it is not really known in my opinion. Repair it, easy Cure it ??

David

GREEN SCOOBY

APIDAVID,

your up date was a bit too technical for me could you or some one else explain what your theory was with the dip stick angle and subarus response.are you saying to pre fill the filter still or not??

cheers and sorry for being so thick ha ha.

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

Green Scooby, No problem I read it and reread it a few times to try to see if I understood what I was trying to say.!!!!

A Subaru dipstick has an angled portion at the bottom 4 inches or so. Pull it out and you'll see what I mean. The point was that the lower mark is a hole in the stick, the upper full mark is another hole and above that by about 3/8"s of an inch is a notch cut out of the side of the stick. The other 2 holes are dead centre of the blade of the stick.

But although the notch is 3/8"s physically above the top hole the angle of the dipstick reduces the actual rise in oil level to only about 1/8th max. Does that make sense now?? It's not easy to explain without holding one in your hand.

If overfilling is to be an issue then I would consider it would have to be overfilled substantially to get anywhere near the moving lower parts of the engine.

If my above attempt at an explanation still doesn't work for you you'll need to get a hold of a dipstick to wave around and try to see what i mean. Unless there bare more eloquent members out there who do understand what I mean and can put it rather clearer.

David API Engines