200mph

I'd LOVE to hear an official Subaru response to this problem....
let me see now--
6 evo cranks in 3 years
330 subaru????

Looks good doesn't it...

Any subaru factory rally techies out there??????
I'd really want to know what they know.

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

Green Scooby and others;

FILL THE FILTER UNTIL YOU'RE BLUE IN THE FACE AND HAVE RUN OUT OF OIL BEFORE YOU FIT IT TO THE ENGINE.

Do NOT attempt to start the engine until it has been spun over at least with the ignition disconnected at the cam angle sensor and preferably with the spark plugs out. AND the oil pressure warning light has been out for 20 seconds minimum.

I know taking the plugs out is a *** BUT so is spending 2 grand plus on rebuilding your engine through careless maintenance.

David API Engines

GREEN SCOOBY

Cheers APIDAVID, I kind of get the explanation for the dip stick and will have a proper look at it tomorrow as its late now, but you and other people think that filling it up to the cut out mark is rubbish.I will print out the other info about the oil filter and plugs and take that to the garage for my next service and tell them to proceed as you have explained.Just another quickie which has been edited, If you fill the filter and put it on the car, how much oil do you put in before turning the engine over as you have described?

thanks a lot mate

ROY

[Edited by GREEN SCOOBY - 7/8/2003 12:03:30 AM]

johnfelstead

all of it, your 4.5 litres including what you used in the filter.

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

The first service for my STi8 is coming up soon and I need to pluck up the courage to tell the service manager to instruct the mechanic to ensure the filter is full before fitting. How would you go about this? Even if they do fill the filter do you honestly believe they disconnect the crank sensor and spin the engine? The words "your dreams in" come to mind! I know one of the mechanics at the dealer (he wanted to buy my 99my) I just need to "catch his eye" and have a word! Thank heavens servicing is now once a year (other than the interim service that I do myself) I could'nt cope with the worry twice a year!
JohnD

GREEN SCOOBY

cheers john thats what I thought but just had to check.

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

John Felstead, Thanks for stepping in with the right answer. I'm rushed off my feet at the mo we have about 11 Scoobs in process at the garage right now, including 2 22B's. [one's still on its way from lreland but it still needs planning] and I'm off on hols Saturday and the clockwork needs winding up before I go.

John D I don't have a clue how to tell the dealer what you want. We advise 'specialists' all the time and we continuously get ' I've been in the trade xxx years do you think I don't know how to change the oil and filter.' I can only reply that, it ain't easy to boil an egg perfectly and you try to get toast brown all over. Both the easiest of jobs and yet we **** em up time after time.

If it's a UK STi 8 it will be less susceptible to 'the problem' than an import. It's still important to do carefully - of course, but it isn't the life or death deal that occurs with STi 3 / 4 / 5 - in my experience he adds quickly. Good luck and just ask politely.

Incidentally the couple of STi7 engines that we have seen have a new version of a crankshaft that is now cross drilled. That means it has twice as many oil feeds to the bearings as a regular crank. Looking at it, it will fit into an earlier style block and we'll try one in an early engine to see what results we get. They're more or less the same money as a usual one so no pemalty either. Hooray for IM !! Pardon? What did you say ?

cya David API Engines

Ken E

It's quite easy for a dealer to **** up an oil change. My Mrs had a Nissan Almera and it went in to the dealer for it's first service. She complained of a burning smell when she got home, I checked the oil and it was about an inch over the max level !!

I complained to the service manager and was told to bring it back where they drained and refilled it correctly. Here's the funny bit though:

The service manager told me he couldn't understand how this could have happened because they have a machine that dispenses a measured amount of oil. Sounds like they pressed the wrong button ! Doesn't sound like they filled the filter beforehand, although I'm not sure how critical it is on one of them emgines.

We never went back there, in fact we only went there because we got the first service inc in the price of the car.

You could ask the service guys what procedure they follow when doing an oil change, then if they don't mention prefilling the filter etc. ask them why not, then decide if they are going to do the oil change or not.

WREXY

I doubt most dealers would know the correct procedure. And even if you tell them to do it, if you're not there watching, I bet they'd skip it. This is all my oppinion only.

Cheers,

George.

GREEN SCOOBY

just spoken to the garage that are doing my service and they do the oil filter and cranking thing as mentioned by david api and bob so i am happy and have a weight off my mind

rapac

Just came back from a gti-r club dyno day.
Venue AVO Mel.OZ
Cars participated
M5
300ZX TT import
6 WRX(2 Sti,1 rally,3 wrx) incl. mine
12 gti-r imports
4 Skyline GTST imports
All cars moded with minimum, exhaust and pod filter.
On a number of imports pinging at high revs was very evident and it was the experience of the operator (backing it of very quickly) they didnt go bang, and running 98Ron fuel.
They were told immediately by owner-operator of AVO car is running very lean at top end and it is not safe and boost must be reduced.
It was also said by the owners that cars were left untouched once imported (privately)from Japan.
But Japan runs 100-102Ron fuel???


Cheers

andyr

I've just taken delivery of my '95 Wrx and speaking to a mate of mine who's a good mechanic about it and the problems I might encounter and used to work in a Subaru dealership (round about 4 or 5 years ago) he recalled that the STANDARD way that they were taught to perform oil change on Subaru's included the following steps - note that this was way back then, it IS NOT A NEW ISSUE THAT IM/SUBARU ARE ONLY JUST NOW BRINGING TO LIGHT ! :

Fill oil filter.
Leave on bench for period of time for oil level to go down.
Top up filter.
Fit filter.
Fill engine with oil.
Disconnect crank sensor.
Crank engine.
Connect sensor.
Off you go ...
He does not work on Subaru's now but he does wonder why the Subaru engine requires this 'special' treatment whilst other (all ?) manufacturer's engines survive perfectly ok with the normal drain oil / remove filter / new filter / new oil / off you go.

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

I wonder how long the bearings would last if the filter was installed near vertical (upwards) as it is on quite a few cars, where, as I mentioned early on in this thread, the oil drains over a few hours (despite the rubber anti-drain valve) and leaves you with an almost empty filter when starting?
Reminds me of the Middlesex RS clubs annual show where they would "Blow a banger" by draining the oil and water from an old Fiesta or Escort and run it until it died. Bets were taken on how long it would take to sieze or blow-up. This always drew a good crowd! Despite revving it, I remember an old Fiesta going on and on and on! Eventually it got slower and slower as it began to sieze but there was no bad knocking! I can't remember the final time but people started to get bored waiting!
Now, I wonder how long it would take a Scoob??
Just a bit of light hearted reading in a rather sobering thread?
JohnD

[Edited by JohnD - 7/13/2003 6:37:36 PM]

Neurons

Wow im just about to buy my first scoob (actively hunting now for a Sub £10K import), and quite frankly reading this scares the sh*t right out of me. however , if you read a thread full of complaints like this, i think you get a fairly distorted view of the problem, how many scoobs are there in the UK that never have the problem Vs. how many have had engine rebuilds? if its a ratio of something like 1000:1, isn't it conceivable that there's manufacturing defects at work, maybe a friday afternoon car etc??
This does still worry me quite a bit, since before reading these forums, i kind of had the impression subaru hardware was nigh on indestructible.....

/2ob (almost scared into looking for a honda... )

greasemonkey

The reasons why this procedure is necessary have been made clear elsewhere. The fundamental reason is that the flat four engine design means there's much less space available for the bearings than there is in an inline of equivalent bore. Thus they're much more susceptible to pick-up if oil pressure is lost.

As for Imprezas being bullet-proof, they don't do badly bearing in mind the power outputs that even standard cars are expected to handle, the fact that many are modified, and the fact that many are driven by morons with no mechanical understanding/sympathy.

If you look around here you'll find plenty of people running very high mileage cars who've never had a major mechanical. If you look after your car, and don't do anything stupid (i.e. running a Jap import on 95 RON unleaded etc. etc.), there's no reason to expect it'll have anything other than a long and reliable life.

johngunn666

Guys.

An update:

1. Rebuild has been carried out at a cost of £2,400. Garage that have the car have done an excellent job and really seem to know what they are doing.
2. Took only a few days to rebuild.
3. Oil pump was fine and the engine had NOT been starved of oil; garage advised that problem was simply "wear and tear".
4. Original garage that may have f*cked up the engine have denied any responsibility so it looks like a punch up will follow if I want them to pay something towards it.
5. I asked Subaru UK to advise on the oil type that they recommend but they have not replied!

Seems that I have been unlucky as car is not modded and is generally treated with a lot of care and attention. Beware!!

John.

200mph

In reply to Neurons...
If anyone could be serious about buying a sub-10k import after reading these posts..
No real history
is it tuned??
more importantly is it setup?
you may be lucky
reckon the ratio of imports/bigend failures must be 1000/50 at least
and more are following every day!!--that is a cert!!

rapac

Big end failure.
99 Sti stock doing 1/4 at the raceway.
Oil:Motul
It happened on the 3nd run and at +6000rpm launch.

When stripped:Bearings not there,crank twisted with lots of metal of,1 rod bent etc etc
Conclusion: Detonation, running lean at high rpm.


Cheers

Neurons

So the next question is how can you safely avoid Detonation and running lean at high RPM?
Will running on SUL/optimax+octane booster enough - i've read elsewhere on scoobynet that running on optimax is fine for 'normal' driving...?
Is getting an ECU remap to SUL/Optimax 100% required for Jap imports? Would the ECU remap prevent running lean at high RPMs?

/2ob
(Getting steadily more confused)

rapac

Get ECU remaped on dyno with the fuel u r using and octane boster will come as a bonus.
Proper fueling,fmi,wi will help big way.
Conservative tuning is the single most important factor on any high powered car.

Cheers

Syxx - Pac

Scoobymania in Nottingham did my engine rebuild for around 1K!!, my big end had gone but the crank shaft didnt need doing. sounds like your being ripped off for 6K!!!!

CHEERS