american oppression
28 June 2003, 10:30 AM
#32
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glad to see you're so rigorous about factual accuracy: never the let the truth get in the way of a good story that's what i say.
try this from the times. you might find it interesting. while he's entertaining, IMO he deserves to lose the oscar: BFC was a political polemic - a rant even - not a documentary.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7-716842,00.html
sorry no clicky - you'll need to cut n' paste.
now if you want an accurate view of the american underbelly, try christopher hitchens...
[Edited by Holy Ghost - 6/28/2003 10:31:58 AM]
try this from the times. you might find it interesting. while he's entertaining, IMO he deserves to lose the oscar: BFC was a political polemic - a rant even - not a documentary.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7-716842,00.html
sorry no clicky - you'll need to cut n' paste.
now if you want an accurate view of the american underbelly, try christopher hitchens...
[Edited by Holy Ghost - 6/28/2003 10:31:58 AM]
28 June 2003, 07:10 PM
#34
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But banks giving you a gun for opening an account, barbers and supermarkets selling 9mm ammo, come on!
The comparison with Canada also says a lot about the ‘scared’ people of the USA.
I have Canadian relatives and friends, and everytime I go to their houses, the doors are locked. I'm pretty sure Mr. Moore went around to a large number of houses, found the ones with open doors, and EDITED them together.
I find it kind of disgusting at how people judge the USA without ever visiting it. Basing your thoughts on what the media says is just stupid. If I was to judge the UK on reruns of "Are You Being Served" and "Dr. Who", I'd think that the country is full of homosexual department store workers with robotic dogs.
Once I went to Costa Rica on a school trip, and the people there were amazed that we didn't look like the cast of Baywatch. They were convinced thats how all Americans looked!
28 June 2003, 08:39 PM
#35
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Yup, England since WWII has changed considerably.
Back then most everybody had a firearm of some kind.
Now only the criminals are allowed to be armed.
The authorities confiscated all the handguns from the honest citizens and shipped them to the US of A in barrels, for resale.
I was able to make some great deals on those pieces in the '50s.
Ironically, most of them had been donated by Americans to the British for "Home Defense!"
After the War ended, they were "all" rounded up and exported.
All, that is, except those issued to the criminal element.
Back then most everybody had a firearm of some kind.
Now only the criminals are allowed to be armed.
The authorities confiscated all the handguns from the honest citizens and shipped them to the US of A in barrels, for resale.
I was able to make some great deals on those pieces in the '50s.
Ironically, most of them had been donated by Americans to the British for "Home Defense!"
After the War ended, they were "all" rounded up and exported.
All, that is, except those issued to the criminal element.
30 June 2003, 11:18 AM
#37
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Moses, where did the report you posted come from?
I know someone at Al Jazeera and he knows of no such verified report about the electricity for peace nonsense. Pity you dont seem to be as critical regarding the Iraqis that were part of the regime killing their own countrymen. It weasnt all Saddam Hussein.
There is a huge amount of sabotage going on. Huge amounts are being spent of civil infrastructure.
Rich
I know someone at Al Jazeera and he knows of no such verified report about the electricity for peace nonsense. Pity you dont seem to be as critical regarding the Iraqis that were part of the regime killing their own countrymen. It weasnt all Saddam Hussein.
There is a huge amount of sabotage going on. Huge amounts are being spent of civil infrastructure.
Rich
30 June 2003, 11:50 AM
#38
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That scene was set up for the movie. The owner of the bank was so upset at being misrepresented that he almost sued. They don't give guns away at that bank, or any bank for all I know. Barbers and supermarkets do NOT sell ammo in the USA.
30 June 2003, 01:52 PM
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From the Wall Street Journal (March 21, 2003):
Forbes reports that an early scene in "Bowling" in which Mr. Moore tries to demonstrate how easy it is to obtain guns in America was staged. He goes to a small bank in Traverse City, Mich., that offers various inducements to open an account and claims "I put $1,000 in a long-term account, they did the background check, and, within an hour, I walked out with my new Weatherby," a rifle.
But Jan Jacobson, the bank employee who worked with Mr. Moore on his account, says that only happened because Mr. Moore's film company had worked for a month to stage the scene. "What happened at the bank was a prearranged thing," she says. The gun was brought from a gun dealer in another city, where it would normally have to be picked up. "Typically, you're looking at a week to 10 days waiting period," she says. Ms. Jacobson feels used: "He just portrayed us as backward hicks."
30 June 2003, 02:11 PM
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--Typically, you're looking at a week to 10 days waiting period," she says. Ms. Jacobson feels used: "He just portrayed us as backward hicks.--
The fact that you dont pick it up straight away doesnt really matter, you still get the gun in the end.
I also remember from watching the film that the woman in the bank said they were 'an authorised firearms dealer', why would she lie about this also?
The fact that you dont pick it up straight away doesnt really matter, you still get the gun in the end.
I also remember from watching the film that the woman in the bank said they were 'an authorised firearms dealer', why would she lie about this also?
30 June 2003, 07:02 PM
#41
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Ten day waiting period = criminal background check.
If you're a felon, you don't get a gun.
They probably had to be an authorized dealer to do the give away. The guns are not given away at the bank.
If you're a felon, you don't get a gun.
They probably had to be an authorized dealer to do the give away. The guns are not given away at the bank.
30 June 2003, 08:55 PM
#43
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That's not the point. The point is that the scene was faked but portrayed as reality.
It looked like all you have to do is go to the bank, sign up for an account, and then the bank will give you a gun.
The reality is that you have to go to the bank, sign up for an account, wait a week or two, drive to a gun dealer, and then get the gun.
It looked like all you have to do is go to the bank, sign up for an account, and then the bank will give you a gun.
The reality is that you have to go to the bank, sign up for an account, wait a week or two, drive to a gun dealer, and then get the gun.
01 July 2003, 03:29 AM
#46
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The "safeguard" wasn't my point. (I'm all for gun control).
Again, the point is that the movie, which claims to be a documentary, deliberatly deceived the audience. This is obvious no matter what your point of view may be.
Again, the point is that the movie, which claims to be a documentary, deliberatly deceived the audience. This is obvious no matter what your point of view may be.
01 July 2003, 08:46 AM
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Artistic licence? 
I do 'know' that this movie has courted some controversy, but IMO it still gives a broad overall view of America's gun culture and the NRA etc. The man who slept with his loaded gun was a complete loon and I'm sure there are thousands more like him waiting to use thier precious guns, just because they can.
I do 'know' that this movie has courted some controversy, but IMO it still gives a broad overall view of America's gun culture and the NRA etc. The man who slept with his loaded gun was a complete loon and I'm sure there are thousands more like him waiting to use thier precious guns, just because they can.
01 July 2003, 10:29 AM
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I guess your right HG, thats why I put the next to it.
Still, I do think Moore has a few good points and I never personally considered it to be a documentary, far to cinematic for that, its just a pity it couldnt have been completely factual and accurate.
Unfortunately his detractors will create such a stink about this 'not being a documentary' that some of the more important points from the 'film' will be lost forever.
Do 'you' now dismiss 'every' point he made in the film then?
16,000 deaths is still 16,000 deaths and I appreciate this may be lower than in S Africa, Russia, China etc, but America is 'supposedly' the most advanced nation on earth and should be leading by example.
next to it.Still, I do think Moore has a few good points and I never personally considered it to be a documentary, far to cinematic for that, its just a pity it couldnt have been completely factual and accurate.
Unfortunately his detractors will create such a stink about this 'not being a documentary' that some of the more important points from the 'film' will be lost forever.
Do 'you' now dismiss 'every' point he made in the film then?
16,000 deaths is still 16,000 deaths and I appreciate this may be lower than in S Africa, Russia, China etc, but America is 'supposedly' the most advanced nation on earth and should be leading by example.
01 July 2003, 11:56 AM
#52
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no need to convince me there: bush stole that election just like kennedy stole the election from nixon in 60 by using mafia-controlled union block votes (then had LBJ blackmail him into making him his running-mate).
but what's done is done, it's been done before & will be again: corruption is our only true natural state.
forget moore. you should dip your toe in a little seymour hersh or alistair cooke. then you'd enjoy some unimpeachable, throughly researched and objective critical insight - rather than the subjective, populist ranting of a lardy tabloid shock-jock ;-)
but what's done is done, it's been done before & will be again: corruption is our only true natural state.
forget moore. you should dip your toe in a little seymour hersh or alistair cooke. then you'd enjoy some unimpeachable, throughly researched and objective critical insight - rather than the subjective, populist ranting of a lardy tabloid shock-jock ;-)
01 July 2003, 12:45 PM
#54
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'Japan? Why? Japan is bankrupt, hows that for being advanced,'
If you've ever been to Japan JYE, they're the most technologically advanced Nation in the world. Also the USA's economy isn't do exactly well at the moment either. Sometimes I despair of u Jye. LOL
If you've ever been to Japan JYE, they're the most technologically advanced Nation in the world. Also the USA's economy isn't do exactly well at the moment either. Sometimes I despair of u Jye. LOL
01 July 2003, 02:44 PM
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If you've ever been to Japan JYE, they're the most technologically advanced Nation in the world. Also the USA's economy isn't do exactly well at the moment either. Sometimes I despair of u Jye. LOL
Perhaps I can show you how to hit 'search' in google, as you obviously havent a clue
NM, I did it for you and as far as technological advancement (your words not mine) is concerned it’s Sweden.
It is often assumed that the U.S. is the most advanced society, but Sweden has consistently outranked it for the past several years, said Stephen Minton, director of worldwide IT markets and strategies for IDC, in Framingham, Massachusetts. The U.S. ranked eighth overall.
Although the gap between the two nations is negligible in all areas but wireless and broadband, Sweden clearly out-deploys the U.S. in both wireless and broadband.
The top ten countries ranked according to the ISI, in order, are Sweden, Denmark, the Netherlands, Norway, Finland, New Zealand, Switzerland, the U.S, Austria and Canada.
http://www.techworld.com/news/index....ews&newsid=191
http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/...Nsweden_1.html
http://www.computerworld.dk/usarticl...3819&Print=Yes
Hmmm, no Japan in the top ten, oops. You really are a waste of my valuable time Popeye, get back to me when you can use Google m8
01 July 2003, 04:12 PM
#56
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'Although the gap between the two nations is negligible in all areas but wireless and broadband, Sweden clearly out-deploys the U.S. in both wireless and broadband.'
LMAO Jye, wtf has broadband/wireless capacity got to do with it?? Stupid fellow U R.
Japan has always been the clear leader in the Hi-Tech industry. Go and visit there and then you can eat you're words. LOL
LMAO Jye, wtf has broadband/wireless capacity got to do with it?? Stupid fellow U R.
Japan has always been the clear leader in the Hi-Tech industry. Go and visit there and then you can eat you're words. LOL
01 July 2003, 04:59 PM
#57
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Pops - The mother of logic!
Evidence? Hello?
Going to a place does not make your opinion an absolute truth - moreso if you haven't been to all other countries or if you have no way of gauging your assertion.
Your comments are about as meaningful as me saying that the UK has the best looking women in the world.
Sometimes I wonder that you act incredibly thick just to wind people up
If you've ever been to Japan JYE, they're the most technologically advanced Nation in the world
Japan has always been the clear leader in the Hi-Tech industry. Go and visit there and then you can eat you're words. LOL
Going to a place does not make your opinion an absolute truth - moreso if you haven't been to all other countries or if you have no way of gauging your assertion.
Your comments are about as meaningful as me saying that the UK has the best looking women in the world.
Sometimes I wonder that you act incredibly thick just to wind people up
01 July 2003, 05:18 PM
#58
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'Evidence? Hello?'
LOL ashtray u make me chuckle. It is very unlikely that you do not have a Japanese product at home, whether it be a Walkman, computer, television or car. LOL its as SIMPLE AS THAT! DOH!
'Your comments are about as meaningful as me saying that the UK has the best looking women in the world.'
No I'd say Italian women blind english girls.
Pops- Its not worth it!
LOL ashtray u make me chuckle. It is very unlikely that you do not have a Japanese product at home, whether it be a Walkman, computer, television or car. LOL its as SIMPLE AS THAT! DOH!
'Your comments are about as meaningful as me saying that the UK has the best looking women in the world.'
No I'd say Italian women blind english girls.
Pops- Its not worth it!