limits of an open deck block
03 July 2003, 09:04 PM
#33
Pavlo
So what power would you want to go to on a 2 lite open deck if it was your car?
I'd be happy with 500bhp.... I've been thinking of selling the car for a while now - but want to finish things off first - hopefully at not huge amounts of money!!
I could go down a different engine route but I've had enough of the faffing around and the life 'losing' costs of modification - it would have to be the case of take the car away and give me a monster powered engine a week or so later once 'everythings' been done!! not this ''lets do this and that and change everything all the time over several years' - slow evolution
Andy F/Harvey/others
Do you have the compressor map for the 500 bhp Ion Turbo - would not mind comparing against a Bob Turbo - I have not got a clue how to read them - but I know a few USA friends that can!
So what power would you want to go to on a 2 lite open deck if it was your car?
I'd be happy with 500bhp.... I've been thinking of selling the car for a while now - but want to finish things off first - hopefully at not huge amounts of money!!
I could go down a different engine route but I've had enough of the faffing around and the life 'losing' costs of modification - it would have to be the case of take the car away and give me a monster powered engine a week or so later once 'everythings' been done!! not this ''lets do this and that and change everything all the time over several years' - slow evolution
Andy F/Harvey/others
Do you have the compressor map for the 500 bhp Ion Turbo - would not mind comparing against a Bob Turbo - I have not got a clue how to read them - but I know a few USA friends that can!
03 July 2003, 09:44 PM
#34
Andy
No its does not have to be a bolt on but then as you say your then messing with a new up-pipe/downpipe and dont forget I have the APS kit on which complicates matters a bit!.HKS would make things easier...
are'nt the non-bolt on's - e.g. Garretts a fair bit heavier on lag!
(I was going to get around this by looking at Nitrous to spool the turbo up.......but the last location I looked at in the North looked like a fly by night operation - may not have been of course - but very unprofessional - looking at a distance)
No its does not have to be a bolt on but then as you say your then messing with a new up-pipe/downpipe and dont forget I have the APS kit on which complicates matters a bit!.HKS would make things easier...
are'nt the non-bolt on's - e.g. Garretts a fair bit heavier on lag!
(I was going to get around this by looking at Nitrous to spool the turbo up.......but the last location I looked at in the North looked like a fly by night operation - may not have been of course - but very unprofessional - looking at a distance)
03 July 2003, 09:46 PM
#35
Steve : If you want information on the turbo why not go straight to the `horses mouth` as it were. www.jack@ionperformance.com
As you know on this current engine, 2 litre open deck, I have no plans to get much more power out of it simply because I do not want to find its limits. I think everybody accepts it is a genuine 450bhp which is similar to what Andy is getting (last time I was at Well Lane they gave me 479bhp and 376 ftlbs) and I expect that Bob is making perhaps 30 or 40 bhp more with his higher compression ratio, Omega pistons and fine tuning of the Motec M800.
The next engine is again 2 litres sleeved down from a 2.2 CDB to give it strength and providing I exceed 500bhp that will be good enough. Then I might look at a bigger capacity unit.
As you know on this current engine, 2 litre open deck, I have no plans to get much more power out of it simply because I do not want to find its limits. I think everybody accepts it is a genuine 450bhp which is similar to what Andy is getting (last time I was at Well Lane they gave me 479bhp and 376 ftlbs) and I expect that Bob is making perhaps 30 or 40 bhp more with his higher compression ratio, Omega pistons and fine tuning of the Motec M800.
The next engine is again 2 litres sleeved down from a 2.2 CDB to give it strength and providing I exceed 500bhp that will be good enough. Then I might look at a bigger capacity unit.
03 July 2003, 10:12 PM
#37
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Steve
I think you will find that some of the 'true' Garretts are less laggy than a 'bolt on' hybrid which may be compromised by the exhaust housing.
As used here (on an EVO)
http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001285.html
I think you will find that some of the 'true' Garretts are less laggy than a 'bolt on' hybrid which may be compromised by the exhaust housing.
As used here (on an EVO)
http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001285.html
03 July 2003, 11:01 PM
#39
Steve,
I think Harvey's right, I wouldn't want to push the open deck block any further. Perhaps with top hat style thick wall liners maybe, but not as standard.
Maybe it would take it, but I don't think you want to be the first person to find out for certain that it cant
Paul
I think Harvey's right, I wouldn't want to push the open deck block any further. Perhaps with top hat style thick wall liners maybe, but not as standard.
Maybe it would take it, but I don't think you want to be the first person to find out for certain that it cant
Paul
03 July 2003, 11:18 PM
#40
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Fangoria - feel free to send us an email -> info@ionperformance.com
In regards to the turbo Harvey is running, he's running our hybrid P450 turbo. Depending on how crazy you want to get, we have some hybrids that'll be able to get you past the 750 mark with enough displacement, fuel and bullet-proof engine components.
As for comparing it to the TD hybrids, you may even want to speak with Harvey about that.
john banks - ideally a full conversion vs. a hybrid is a better way to go. however given the constraints of other pieces that are already bought (ie: down-pipes, headers, up-pipes etc) it's a more convient way of getting power with a hybrid. We have full Garrett GT conversions available which requires a new down-pipe as well as up-pipe. These are available in either internally WG'd or externally WG'd set-ups.
In regards to the turbo Harvey is running, he's running our hybrid P450 turbo. Depending on how crazy you want to get, we have some hybrids that'll be able to get you past the 750 mark with enough displacement, fuel and bullet-proof engine components.
As for comparing it to the TD hybrids, you may even want to speak with Harvey about that.
john banks - ideally a full conversion vs. a hybrid is a better way to go. however given the constraints of other pieces that are already bought (ie: down-pipes, headers, up-pipes etc) it's a more convient way of getting power with a hybrid. We have full Garrett GT conversions available which requires a new down-pipe as well as up-pipe. These are available in either internally WG'd or externally WG'd set-ups.
04 July 2003, 04:50 AM
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04 July 2003, 05:06 AM
#43
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some quotes from the thread posted above:
..... However I know a man who can replicate an HKS turbo kit for just over 1/2 the price 
OH NO THEY CAN'T
the 2835 3037s 3040 3240 all are t25 exhaust flanges
also all external waste gate .
HKS and only HKS make a t25 external wastegate exhaust housing .
gt25 is not up to the job of the 2835 3037 etc etc as it has limited wheel sizes and will always have a internal wastegate system unless you weld it up . further still the gt25 has only 2 options on the exhaust housing where as the HKS turbos have may to choose from . so you see all is not that easy HKS HAVE CORNERED THE MARKET with the turbos they make . i have looked long and hard @ the options open to me . but believe me HKS comes back again and again .
the 2835 3037s 3040 3240 all are t25 exhaust flanges
also all external waste gate .
HKS and only HKS make a t25 external wastegate exhaust housing .
gt25 is not up to the job of the 2835 3037 etc etc as it has limited wheel sizes and will always have a internal wastegate system unless you weld it up . further still the gt25 has only 2 options on the exhaust housing where as the HKS turbos have may to choose from . so you see all is not that easy HKS HAVE CORNERED THE MARKET with the turbos they make . i have looked long and hard @ the options open to me . but believe me HKS comes back again and again .
04 July 2003, 05:08 AM
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I think it's worth pointing out that what you may see as the range of Garrett turbos, well, isn't.
The GT30 specifically doesn't appear on their main catalogue. This may be in part to the restrictions HKS has put in place as all HKS turbo parts are still made by garret, but like EVO400 says, you can't go to a Garrett supplier and buy a internally gated GT30 exhaust housing with the T25 inlet flange.
However, you can still buy GT30 and larger with a large range of externally gated housings. However, some of the housings are not 'released' by Garret yet, in other words HKS want you to buy theirs for the moment.
See
Ray Hall Turbocharging for a list of what is available.
They differ from the HKS units, for instance the HKS GT3037 has a T04E compressor cover with 0.6 A/R for less flow that the Garrett GT30 with either T04S or GT40 compressor covers. They are more similar to the HKS GT3040.
Another confusing thing, is the GT25 from the "Ballistic" series of turbos is rated for more power that the GT32 from the standard line of turbos.
I fail to see how there isn't something suitable for a 2.0 litre EVO, give the results from MAD and the likes with a GT25, and if you want more then get an externally gated GT30.
Paul
The GT30 specifically doesn't appear on their main catalogue. This may be in part to the restrictions HKS has put in place as all HKS turbo parts are still made by garret, but like EVO400 says, you can't go to a Garrett supplier and buy a internally gated GT30 exhaust housing with the T25 inlet flange.
However, you can still buy GT30 and larger with a large range of externally gated housings. However, some of the housings are not 'released' by Garret yet, in other words HKS want you to buy theirs for the moment.
See
Ray Hall Turbocharging for a list of what is available.
They differ from the HKS units, for instance the HKS GT3037 has a T04E compressor cover with 0.6 A/R for less flow that the Garrett GT30 with either T04S or GT40 compressor covers. They are more similar to the HKS GT3040.
Another confusing thing, is the GT25 from the "Ballistic" series of turbos is rated for more power that the GT32 from the standard line of turbos.
I fail to see how there isn't something suitable for a 2.0 litre EVO, give the results from MAD and the likes with a GT25, and if you want more then get an externally gated GT30.
Paul
04 July 2003, 08:47 AM
#45
That's me.
Ray Hall seem to be a little odd with their model numbers, as pointed out to me by Mark.
From what I have seen, there is nothing special about the HKS specification
Paul
Ray Hall seem to be a little odd with their model numbers, as pointed out to me by Mark.
From what I have seen, there is nothing special about the HKS specification
Paul
04 July 2003, 10:00 AM
#46
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Paul,
How can you say there's nothing special about the HKS turbo range ! Have you seen their prices.... Now they're pretty special
HKS do have a better range of exhaust housings though, it it would appear that their current agreement with Garrett, is preventing Garrett from releasing the same range ! I've been waiting since Sept' 2001 to get hold of a particular exhaust housing
Solved that now though 
Mark.
How can you say there's nothing special about the HKS turbo range ! Have you seen their prices.... Now they're pretty special
HKS do have a better range of exhaust housings though, it it would appear that their current agreement with Garrett, is preventing Garrett from releasing the same range ! I've been waiting since Sept' 2001 to get hold of a particular exhaust housing
Solved that now though Mark.
04 July 2003, 10:10 AM
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Its something rediculous like £5000 plus VAT isnt it for one of the "large" HKS turbo kits????
IMHO for what in essence (excuse my ignorance if I have missed some bits out) a turbo, wastegate, inlet pipe, air filter & a manifold?
Mr HKS must be a VERY rich man!!!
Chris
(most probably showing his ignorance)
IMHO for what in essence (excuse my ignorance if I have missed some bits out) a turbo, wastegate, inlet pipe, air filter & a manifold?
Mr HKS must be a VERY rich man!!!
Chris
(most probably showing his ignorance)
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