The Euro???
23 August 2003, 12:18 AM
#32
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If Britain had always taken a nervous stand point and waited for everyone else to proove things first before committing, we would've never ventured accross the seas and created the largest most powerfull empire this planet has ever seen!
Like everything in life, the more risk you take the greater the possible rewards! If we take no risk, we will never get anywhere! If we stopped being so pathetically weak and embraced the risks involved in joining the Euro, strive to make it work and the result will undoubtedly be to the greater benefit of both Britain and all our European cousins!
In joining the Euro we are NOT giving up any soverignty, we are NOT unifying Tax... and do I want my mortgate rate to be set by Europe and not the bank of England... YES... the Eurozone interest rate is lower than that of the bank of England so I would be paying much less!
Like everything in life, the more risk you take the greater the possible rewards! If we take no risk, we will never get anywhere! If we stopped being so pathetically weak and embraced the risks involved in joining the Euro, strive to make it work and the result will undoubtedly be to the greater benefit of both Britain and all our European cousins!
In joining the Euro we are NOT giving up any soverignty, we are NOT unifying Tax... and do I want my mortgate rate to be set by Europe and not the bank of England... YES... the Eurozone interest rate is lower than that of the bank of England so I would be paying much less!
23 August 2003, 09:53 AM
#34
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the £/euro rate is treated in the press as some kind of defingin measure of the success of the new currency... this is misleading.
Yes the there are now 1.4 euro to the £ when it used to be 1.7 - does this illustrate the massive success of the euro and wide acceptance etc etc??? Depends...
The strength of the Euro recently has been largely due to the weakening of the dollar driven in no small way by the iraq conflict. An awful lot of middle eastern money moved out of the dollar when the US embroiled itself in a global political hot potato invading iraq etc etc.. The pound has traditionally tracked the dollar pretty closely not to mention we took a political stance with them wrt to Iraq. So, anyay a lot of money moved out of the dollar (and some out of the £).
If anything now, investement is returning to the $ and the US economy is predicted to out perform the Euro (particularly as Germany flounders in recession) and if anything we will see the exchange rate return to previous levels, possibly higher on current outlook.
So the Euro was a huge success over 2003 and is going to fail again... according to exchange rates. Hmmmm right.
Yes the there are now 1.4 euro to the £ when it used to be 1.7 - does this illustrate the massive success of the euro and wide acceptance etc etc??? Depends...
The strength of the Euro recently has been largely due to the weakening of the dollar driven in no small way by the iraq conflict. An awful lot of middle eastern money moved out of the dollar when the US embroiled itself in a global political hot potato invading iraq etc etc.. The pound has traditionally tracked the dollar pretty closely not to mention we took a political stance with them wrt to Iraq. So, anyay a lot of money moved out of the dollar (and some out of the £).
If anything now, investement is returning to the $ and the US economy is predicted to out perform the Euro (particularly as Germany flounders in recession) and if anything we will see the exchange rate return to previous levels, possibly higher on current outlook.
So the Euro was a huge success over 2003 and is going to fail again... according to exchange rates. Hmmmm right.
23 August 2003, 10:01 AM
#35
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"US embroiled itself in a global political hot potato invading iraq etc etc"
I think you'll find that was officially a liberation rather than an invasion!
I will be voting against the Euro as I dont want to be contributing more than I already do to countries like Spain. I do enough of that when I go on holiday there!
But to be honest its going to happen whether we like it or not - if bLIAR thinks he'll lose the ref then he'll bypass that and make a decision for us all!
Get used to it cos IT WILL HAPPEN. Personally if it does then I'm going to emigrate!
I think you'll find that was officially a liberation rather than an invasion!
I will be voting against the Euro as I dont want to be contributing more than I already do to countries like Spain. I do enough of that when I go on holiday there!
But to be honest its going to happen whether we like it or not - if bLIAR thinks he'll lose the ref then he'll bypass that and make a decision for us all!
Get used to it cos IT WILL HAPPEN. Personally if it does then I'm going to emigrate!
23 August 2003, 10:18 AM
#36
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British Interest rates are set by the Bank of England, not by the government...surely thats 'they' as well it could be the ECB.
Its well known that the current interest rate in the UK is not suitable for all regions of the UK. So really interest rates being bad or good in Europe is not really a valid negative argument, since its no different from the situation today in the UK but just on a different scale.
Too many people are negative about the Euro based on what they read in the Sun, if you travel a lot the other negatives are just hugely outweighed by the benefits of easy price comparison and simply the fact they are not getting ripped off daily when changing money at the banks.
Its well known that the current interest rate in the UK is not suitable for all regions of the UK. So really interest rates being bad or good in Europe is not really a valid negative argument, since its no different from the situation today in the UK but just on a different scale.
Too many people are negative about the Euro based on what they read in the Sun, if you travel a lot the other negatives are just hugely outweighed by the benefits of easy price comparison and simply the fact they are not getting ripped off daily when changing money at the banks.
23 August 2003, 10:40 AM
#37
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just thought I'd check some of the figures going on here 
.
Holy Ghost, UK exports were 58% and 15% to EC and US respectively in 2001. Germany 12.5% alone.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/eco_exp_par&int=-1&id=EUR
Imports
51.7% from EU and 13.2% from US.....hardly a middle point between old and new
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/eco_imp_par&int=-1&id=EUN
So clearly we're closer to EU in trade than the US. So therefore it makes sense that we're closer economically with our major trade partner's. That way there is less risk to trade due to fluctuations in exchange rate.
.Holy Ghost, UK exports were 58% and 15% to EC and US respectively in 2001. Germany 12.5% alone.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/eco_exp_par&int=-1&id=EUR
Imports
51.7% from EU and 13.2% from US.....hardly a middle point between old and new
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/eco_imp_par&int=-1&id=EUN
So clearly we're closer to EU in trade than the US. So therefore it makes sense that we're closer economically with our major trade partner's. That way there is less risk to trade due to fluctuations in exchange rate.
23 August 2003, 12:12 PM
#38
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We should not allow ourselves to be blinded purely by financial considerations. Money seems to be to be the guiding light these days and I believe it is a gross mistake to make it our "God".
HG made the point very well that the commissioners are non-elected and we have no say in the decisions of the European Government. It is a very cosy club of leaders who do just what they like. European integration is for their benefit, not ours and we have no influence on their decisions. Our government has already handed out so much power over us to Europe without telling us, and now they hide behind European power to make unpalatable decisions affecting our lives. Let me just mention Human Rights legislation and how that is causing so many problems over here. If you really want to see such effects, wait until the European Constitution is accepted by our government without a referendum shortly and see how you feel then!
I believe in the quality of life, the right to vote, and the power of the electorate for self determination. At the moment we can still vote and we have the power to kick this administration up the backside if we feel like it. I call it an administration advisedly. I do not favour any particular form of politics, just the government which will do best for this country.
This thread is not about how well this government has done for our country in the last six years or so. We have to imagine eventual integration with Europe. The coming European Constitution will admit all the eastern European countries into Europe plus taking enormous powers to affect our lives in our own countries with no recourse for us. The integrated Euro parliament will be made up of Euro MP's with each country being allocated so many MP's as it is now. We may well not have a government left in our own countries. How much influence do you think our Euro votes will have in that parliament? We will be effectively disenfranchised and be at the mercy of non elected commissioners who have already demonstrated their so called honesty and who will be able to dictate our lives to us at will. We will have lost the one bit of "people power" we still have and which was hard fought for over history. Believe me, that is more important to us than I can say. We already see this government railroading decisions upon us because of their enormous majority-always a dangerous situation because it is not long before they feel they can do what they like regardless of Parliament's and the electorate's wishes. This is why there will be no referendum over the European Constitution and the referendum over the Euro will somehow be fixed, even by allowing Europeans living in this country to vote although they are not eligible to vote in an election! We have been fed lies under the guise of "spin" for such a long time, why should anything change now.
It is important that we all realise what is actually happening before it is too late and we are lost for ever in an irreversable situation. Concentrating so much power over so many countries in the hands of a few is dreadfully dangerous. Once our voting power is lost, the leaders will do just as they like and it is unlikely to be for our good. The business about economics and finance is all a smokescreen for the self aggrandisement of the leaders and we should recognise it as such.
We would have have much better lives overall by remaining out of European integration and maintaining our own government which is directly answerable to the people of this country. We would still have control over our own lives. Our economy is not doing badly as we are and and I don't believe a change of currency would be of any measurable overall advantage to us. Nothing wrong with being a trading partner, which is what Heath led us to believe at the first referendum, even though he was lying in his teeth by witholding the real plan from us all.
I do not believe it is necessarily cynical to say what one believes by having watched carefully what is going on. Once it was felt that overall, politicians could be trusted as men of honour. Like the "fat cats" of industry who shamelessly dig into the trough at the expense of their employees, it appears that altruism has in the main "died the death" and politicians are there not for the sake of the country who elected them as much as for themselves. The way governments and politicians have behaved for some years now demonstrates that pretty well. We have to realise that and make our own decisions accordingly.
Les
HG made the point very well that the commissioners are non-elected and we have no say in the decisions of the European Government. It is a very cosy club of leaders who do just what they like. European integration is for their benefit, not ours and we have no influence on their decisions. Our government has already handed out so much power over us to Europe without telling us, and now they hide behind European power to make unpalatable decisions affecting our lives. Let me just mention Human Rights legislation and how that is causing so many problems over here. If you really want to see such effects, wait until the European Constitution is accepted by our government without a referendum shortly and see how you feel then!
I believe in the quality of life, the right to vote, and the power of the electorate for self determination. At the moment we can still vote and we have the power to kick this administration up the backside if we feel like it. I call it an administration advisedly. I do not favour any particular form of politics, just the government which will do best for this country.
This thread is not about how well this government has done for our country in the last six years or so. We have to imagine eventual integration with Europe. The coming European Constitution will admit all the eastern European countries into Europe plus taking enormous powers to affect our lives in our own countries with no recourse for us. The integrated Euro parliament will be made up of Euro MP's with each country being allocated so many MP's as it is now. We may well not have a government left in our own countries. How much influence do you think our Euro votes will have in that parliament? We will be effectively disenfranchised and be at the mercy of non elected commissioners who have already demonstrated their so called honesty and who will be able to dictate our lives to us at will. We will have lost the one bit of "people power" we still have and which was hard fought for over history. Believe me, that is more important to us than I can say. We already see this government railroading decisions upon us because of their enormous majority-always a dangerous situation because it is not long before they feel they can do what they like regardless of Parliament's and the electorate's wishes. This is why there will be no referendum over the European Constitution and the referendum over the Euro will somehow be fixed, even by allowing Europeans living in this country to vote although they are not eligible to vote in an election! We have been fed lies under the guise of "spin" for such a long time, why should anything change now.
It is important that we all realise what is actually happening before it is too late and we are lost for ever in an irreversable situation. Concentrating so much power over so many countries in the hands of a few is dreadfully dangerous. Once our voting power is lost, the leaders will do just as they like and it is unlikely to be for our good. The business about economics and finance is all a smokescreen for the self aggrandisement of the leaders and we should recognise it as such.
We would have have much better lives overall by remaining out of European integration and maintaining our own government which is directly answerable to the people of this country. We would still have control over our own lives. Our economy is not doing badly as we are and and I don't believe a change of currency would be of any measurable overall advantage to us. Nothing wrong with being a trading partner, which is what Heath led us to believe at the first referendum, even though he was lying in his teeth by witholding the real plan from us all.
I do not believe it is necessarily cynical to say what one believes by having watched carefully what is going on. Once it was felt that overall, politicians could be trusted as men of honour. Like the "fat cats" of industry who shamelessly dig into the trough at the expense of their employees, it appears that altruism has in the main "died the death" and politicians are there not for the sake of the country who elected them as much as for themselves. The way governments and politicians have behaved for some years now demonstrates that pretty well. We have to realise that and make our own decisions accordingly.
Les
23 August 2003, 12:24 PM
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Leslie,
Nothing you say is any different than what we have today, all Governments are corrupt to an extent. Thats simply due to the fact that the people in them are representing people who are corrupt to an extent.
Government is an extension of society, for me its much simpler. Europe makes us bigger, which means we're less at risk from the big bad US of A or a greater Europe. It might also mean that people in the UK might not need to work Victorian working hours(longest in the EU) and big banks won't get to rip me off every time I step on a plane. As a Scot I feel more in common with many European societies than I do with the US of A.
All that you are suggesting is Anarchy, all leaders are corrupt so we don't need them blah blah blah. People need leadership, the fact we're lucky to get a 50% turn out in elections shows the level of sloth in the UK. This to me means we need to be pushed to make progress. It may be risky to take on the Euro, its less risky than doing nothing........
[Edited by camk - 8/23/2003 12:25:42 PM]
Nothing you say is any different than what we have today, all Governments are corrupt to an extent. Thats simply due to the fact that the people in them are representing people who are corrupt to an extent.
Government is an extension of society, for me its much simpler. Europe makes us bigger, which means we're less at risk from the big bad US of A or a greater Europe. It might also mean that people in the UK might not need to work Victorian working hours(longest in the EU) and big banks won't get to rip me off every time I step on a plane. As a Scot I feel more in common with many European societies than I do with the US of A.
All that you are suggesting is Anarchy, all leaders are corrupt so we don't need them blah blah blah. People need leadership, the fact we're lucky to get a 50% turn out in elections shows the level of sloth in the UK. This to me means we need to be pushed to make progress. It may be risky to take on the Euro, its less risky than doing nothing........
[Edited by camk - 8/23/2003 12:25:42 PM]
23 August 2003, 12:33 PM
#42
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Scoob69 ,
LOL, some of us travel a bit more than once a year to Ibiza...plus the rip off is a bit larger scale than your 3quid commission.....look at the people on here buying cars....or buying property or working/living abroad.....
[Edited by camk - 8/23/2003 12:34:09 PM]
,LOL, some of us travel a bit more than once a year to Ibiza...plus the rip off is a bit larger scale than your 3quid commission.....look at the people on here buying cars....or buying property or working/living abroad.....
[Edited by camk - 8/23/2003 12:34:09 PM]
23 August 2003, 04:02 PM
#43
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Camk.
I cannot see anywhere in my post where I suggested anarchy. I think you are seeing things that are not there. Of course we need real leadership by people we can trust. Do you honestly believe we will get that through integration? No good blaming the States either, we need to stand up for ourselves rather than accept the so called inevitability of giving the country away to the control of Europe or any other world power. Neither should we have to accept major corruption in government. The way is to vote a decent government in legally which will support the sovereignty of this country. I mean that if you lose the power of your vote then make no mistake, the predictions of "1984" will eventually come true! No hint of encouragement towards anarchy there! That is the last thing we need. We do need to support our own constitution though. Legally!
Les
I cannot see anywhere in my post where I suggested anarchy. I think you are seeing things that are not there. Of course we need real leadership by people we can trust. Do you honestly believe we will get that through integration? No good blaming the States either, we need to stand up for ourselves rather than accept the so called inevitability of giving the country away to the control of Europe or any other world power. Neither should we have to accept major corruption in government. The way is to vote a decent government in legally which will support the sovereignty of this country. I mean that if you lose the power of your vote then make no mistake, the predictions of "1984" will eventually come true! No hint of encouragement towards anarchy there! That is the last thing we need. We do need to support our own constitution though. Legally!
Les
23 August 2003, 04:46 PM
#44
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we need real leadership by people we can trust. Do you honestly believe we will get that through integration?
I dont want to be contributing more than I already do to countries like Spain.
at least I'll save myself £3 at the bank each time I go on holiday
23 August 2003, 07:45 PM
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Is all that worth throwing your vote away for? And you did not read my point about integration correctly. Integration has not happened yet either.
Ianmiller999, you started this-what do you think! It will affect your life more than most here.
[Edited by Leslie - 8/23/2003 7:47:37 PM]
[Edited by Leslie - 8/25/2003 9:59:05 AM]
Ianmiller999, you started this-what do you think! It will affect your life more than most here.
[Edited by Leslie - 8/23/2003 7:47:37 PM]
[Edited by Leslie - 8/25/2003 9:59:05 AM]
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