FAO all atkins dieters
19 August 2003, 09:54 PM
#61
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telboy, check the clickie link back up this page, a cut n paste from some of the research
From the University of Pennsylvania Medical Center, Washington University in St. Louis, The University of Colorado, and The New England Journal of Medicine, 2003: These multi-center researchers conducted a 12 months study of a low carbohydrate, high protein diet with the conventional high carbohydrate, low fat, low calorie diet. They found that the low carbohydrate group lost more weight at 3, 6 and 12 months and had lower triglyceride levels, and improved HDL cholesterol levels ("good" cholesterol).
From the University of Pennsylvania Medical Center, Washington University in St. Louis, The University of Colorado, and The New England Journal of Medicine, 2003: These multi-center researchers conducted a 12 months study of a low carbohydrate, high protein diet with the conventional high carbohydrate, low fat, low calorie diet. They found that the low carbohydrate group lost more weight at 3, 6 and 12 months and had lower triglyceride levels, and improved HDL cholesterol levels ("good" cholesterol).
19 August 2003, 10:12 PM
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Buzz - I didn't say you were! 
From the little I've read about the Atkins diet, I can see it's attraction. People embarking on a weight loss program need to see fast results to give them the feeling that what they're doing is worthwhile abd having some affect.
As I understand it the 'extreme' phase of Atkins only lasts a couple of weeks, and then moderate intake of carbs is resumed, and you revert to what is generally accepted as a healthy balanced intake.
I would recommend people concentrate on percentage bodyfat rather than purely weight alone and simply eat and drink healthily - cut out the sweets, chocolate and Maccy D's and do 3-5 sessions of moderate exercise a week (and moderate exercise is the best for fat burning) but having never been more than 16% bodyfat that is very easy for me to say.
If people are using the Atkins diet as a stepping stone to a healthier lifestyle then good luck!
From the little I've read about the Atkins diet, I can see it's attraction. People embarking on a weight loss program need to see fast results to give them the feeling that what they're doing is worthwhile abd having some affect.
As I understand it the 'extreme' phase of Atkins only lasts a couple of weeks, and then moderate intake of carbs is resumed, and you revert to what is generally accepted as a healthy balanced intake.
I would recommend people concentrate on percentage bodyfat rather than purely weight alone and simply eat and drink healthily - cut out the sweets, chocolate and Maccy D's and do 3-5 sessions of moderate exercise a week (and moderate exercise is the best for fat burning) but having never been more than 16% bodyfat that is very easy for me to say.
If people are using the Atkins diet as a stepping stone to a healthier lifestyle then good luck!
19 August 2003, 11:19 PM
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I think you missed the sarcasm in my 10,000 calories post
I used atkins to loose some weight quickly as I'm the sort of person that needs to see some sort of results to remain motivated. It worked and I was ready to switch back to a healthy more normal diet (i.e: cereal and slice of toast, sanny and fruit, normal evening meal) but then I took the decision to bulk up again so its eat, eat, eat, eat
19 August 2003, 11:24 PM
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Congratulations Buzz on your loss, keep at at. A few things to keep in mind if your a new starter
1) your initial weight loss in the two-three weeks after carb restriction will be the largest you'll see, if you stop eatin low carb then re-start, you won't see loss anywhere near the same. This is well documented and is termed "the Golden Shot". make the most of it!
2) the diet is heavily di-uretic, so make sure that you do drink plenty of water! it not only helps digestion, but also stops you feeling tired and listless whilst you get used to the low carb intake.
3) remember you can (and should) now add salt back into your cooking. The reason you were told to avoid adding salt was because of the synergistic nature of the salt/sugar combination making things taste sweeter, in all that processed rubbish. - Enjoy the taste once more!
4) Opposite to popular belief, the saturated fats are the most useful. Cook in butter, and eat lots of cheese. Think nothing of consuming 1/2 tub of philadelphia for one meal. Saturated fats deteriorate much less when heated, and therefore dont break down into more harmful substances when frying etc. and besides it tastes fantastic! You do still need some monounsaturated fats, in the form of olive oils/fish oils , ie oils containing Gamma linoleic acids (SP?) so eat oily fish (in butter/cream sauces
)
5) you will probably feel fairly unwell for upto 10 days, i felt ill only for 2-3 days in the first week, my wife however had a rough time and felt fairly ill for almost 3 months, untill we found out mushrooms are her enemy...! After that time, you'll find you should suddenly feel really well, the kind of feeling you get where you say "I havent felt this good since i was 18" sort of thing. Also pleasantly note how you suddenly become immune to most of the colds/minor ilnesses everyone else seems to get 3 times a year. (i havent been ill since i started eating low carb, and i used to be a 4cold/flu a year bloke without fail)
6) Smile as all thing like strawberries which used to taste as sour as lemons without a dose of sugar, now taste pleasantly sweet on their own.
7) Stay away from all grain products - cereals, flours, grain oils, pasta , breads etc.
8) stay away from all root vegetables - especially potato!
9) stick with it, learn to cook (you'll need to prepare all your meals by hand now!) and you'll be laughing at calorie restriction for a long time to come!
You can help the nausia at first by consuming slightly more water than usual to help shift the toxins being released by the metabolisation of your fat (the toxins are stored in the water molecules held by the fat - so when you first lost lots of weight really quickly - all this crap goes rushing back into your system, and makes you feel really sh*tty for the first week or so, till the weight loss slows)
There's nothing mystical about the lo-carb diet. Atkins has popularised it, but in a way, after reading his book, he's too over zealous in the way its presented, and hence can be easily misinterpreted as the holy grail of weight loss. " Eat all you want and still lose weight!" hmmmmmm......... simply not true.
Also try not to rely too much on the scales/body fat gizmo's they're fine as a relative check, but by far the biggest measure of how much fat you've lost will be the way your clothes fit/hang.
Remember, its about FAT loss , not weight loss. My wife has actually lost no weight during her year lo-carbing, however, she has gone down from a size 16 to a size 8/10. Fat occupies far more volume (and is less dense) than muscle, and eating the right amount of protein means she's gained quit a bit of muscle tone (and weight) but lost most of her fat (****/thighs but dont tell her i said that lol) so it balanced out on the scales. For ages she was dissapointed that the scales werent moving untill she noticed that she no longer 'filled' her jeans.
/2ob
1) your initial weight loss in the two-three weeks after carb restriction will be the largest you'll see, if you stop eatin low carb then re-start, you won't see loss anywhere near the same. This is well documented and is termed "the Golden Shot". make the most of it!
2) the diet is heavily di-uretic, so make sure that you do drink plenty of water! it not only helps digestion, but also stops you feeling tired and listless whilst you get used to the low carb intake.
3) remember you can (and should) now add salt back into your cooking. The reason you were told to avoid adding salt was because of the synergistic nature of the salt/sugar combination making things taste sweeter, in all that processed rubbish. - Enjoy the taste once more!
4) Opposite to popular belief, the saturated fats are the most useful. Cook in butter, and eat lots of cheese. Think nothing of consuming 1/2 tub of philadelphia for one meal. Saturated fats deteriorate much less when heated, and therefore dont break down into more harmful substances when frying etc. and besides it tastes fantastic! You do still need some monounsaturated fats, in the form of olive oils/fish oils , ie oils containing Gamma linoleic acids (SP?) so eat oily fish (in butter/cream sauces
)5) you will probably feel fairly unwell for upto 10 days, i felt ill only for 2-3 days in the first week, my wife however had a rough time and felt fairly ill for almost 3 months, untill we found out mushrooms are her enemy...! After that time, you'll find you should suddenly feel really well, the kind of feeling you get where you say "I havent felt this good since i was 18" sort of thing. Also pleasantly note how you suddenly become immune to most of the colds/minor ilnesses everyone else seems to get 3 times a year. (i havent been ill since i started eating low carb, and i used to be a 4cold/flu a year bloke without fail)
6) Smile as all thing like strawberries which used to taste as sour as lemons without a dose of sugar, now taste pleasantly sweet on their own.
7) Stay away from all grain products - cereals, flours, grain oils, pasta , breads etc.
8) stay away from all root vegetables - especially potato!
9) stick with it, learn to cook (you'll need to prepare all your meals by hand now!) and you'll be laughing at calorie restriction for a long time to come!
You can help the nausia at first by consuming slightly more water than usual to help shift the toxins being released by the metabolisation of your fat (the toxins are stored in the water molecules held by the fat - so when you first lost lots of weight really quickly - all this crap goes rushing back into your system, and makes you feel really sh*tty for the first week or so, till the weight loss slows)
There's nothing mystical about the lo-carb diet. Atkins has popularised it, but in a way, after reading his book, he's too over zealous in the way its presented, and hence can be easily misinterpreted as the holy grail of weight loss. " Eat all you want and still lose weight!" hmmmmmm......... simply not true.
Also try not to rely too much on the scales/body fat gizmo's they're fine as a relative check, but by far the biggest measure of how much fat you've lost will be the way your clothes fit/hang.
Remember, its about FAT loss , not weight loss. My wife has actually lost no weight during her year lo-carbing, however, she has gone down from a size 16 to a size 8/10. Fat occupies far more volume (and is less dense) than muscle, and eating the right amount of protein means she's gained quit a bit of muscle tone (and weight) but lost most of her fat (****/thighs but dont tell her i said that lol) so it balanced out on the scales. For ages she was dissapointed that the scales werent moving untill she noticed that she no longer 'filled' her jeans.
/2ob
19 August 2003, 11:25 PM
#65
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Sorry, didn't go through this for more than half of the first page.
This
[quote[
I haven't spoken to anyone who as tried this diet for longer than 6mths
[/quote]
fell to my attention. Just yesterday (cluster theory anyone?)I stumbled acrross this page:
http://keith.maddock.com/weight/index.htm
This guy apparently follows this diet for over a year and lost 130 lbs. Just read it. Or see his pages about the 'ring, recommended!
My own view is that when I weigh too much I start sports again, keeps me from eating at the same time too
And the more you are aware what you eat the better you eat. Helps too.
19 August 2003, 11:40 PM
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I eat atkins, but i dont exercise nearly enough (no time 
), i bike ride at the weekends with the kids, and do Wing Chun once a week. BUT and its a big but, eating a natural diet almost precludes the need for excersise. It does help aid weight loss , but no animal that eats its within its natural diet ever becomes obese (unless as a requirement of the species ie the walrus , say). The only animals which are unnaturally obese are Man, and his pets, because he feeds them on un-natural foods.
You never see lions on treadmils, and monkeys dont jog. (even though i see plenty lol)
the simple truth is that no animal needs to expend more energy than is required to catch its next meal. Us included.
Unfortunately a quick jog down to safeways for a side of beef doesnt cut it, so in our case we should excercise, but only enough to replace what we would have done naturaly to catch our next meal - so yes, we should really excersise. IIRC atkins recomends just a simple walk couple mile walk a couple of times a week.
), i bike ride at the weekends with the kids, and do Wing Chun once a week. BUT and its a big but, eating a natural diet almost precludes the need for excersise. It does help aid weight loss , but no animal that eats its within its natural diet ever becomes obese (unless as a requirement of the species ie the walrus , say). The only animals which are unnaturally obese are Man, and his pets, because he feeds them on un-natural foods. You never see lions on treadmils, and monkeys dont jog. (even though i see plenty lol)
the simple truth is that no animal needs to expend more energy than is required to catch its next meal. Us included.
Unfortunately a quick jog down to safeways for a side of beef doesnt cut it, so in our case we should excercise, but only enough to replace what we would have done naturaly to catch our next meal
- so yes, we should really excersise. IIRC atkins recomends just a simple walk couple mile walk a couple of times a week.
19 August 2003, 11:52 PM
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dead_neurons - do you not worry about the effect all this saturated fat may have on your heart?
Also I disagree with you over %age bodyfat - this is the only true way to measure. It is entirely possible to be a skinny runt and still have a high bodyfat level.
Also I disagree with you over %age bodyfat - this is the only true way to measure. It is entirely possible to be a skinny runt and still have a high bodyfat level.
20 August 2003, 12:16 AM
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Do i worry? i did at first but after the initial paranoia wears off , and you realise that cholesterol is far from the enemy, i dont pay the govt's hype much attention anymore. I had my HDL/LDL levels tested Very bad before lo-carb, moderately bad for first month (sharp drop) V bad for a couple of months after that, and after that super-dooper-lowest-you'll-ever-see-even-though-i-eat-lard figures, doc said they're one of the healthiest ratios of hdl to LDL he's seen.
Maybe its my conspiracy theory mind kicking into overdrive, but i just cannot see any reason why the govt persists in pushing nonsense dietary advice.. im completely foxed!
Take fibre! fibre is one of the worst possible substances you could possibly stuff in your mouth.
Originaly a waste product of the (wheat) grain industry, suddenly its nice n health to eat and millions of tons are now sold at £2 a box. There has never been any evidence to suggest that bran 'helps' digestion, and if you do any reading, you'll find quite the contrary.
Bran forces the food through the digestive tract meaning
a) your body isn't able to extract all the nutrients is can, since its moving by important portions of your intestine too quickly. Vitamins A D E & K aren't absorbed in the prescence of bran, neither are calcium, iron and zinc. - and thats just for starters. it gets worse ...
b) because your partially digested food is now in the wrong part of the digestive tract it meets select intestinal bacteria sooner than it should, your food begins to ferment as opposed to digest.
leads to bloating, farting and the 'good blow-out' you get on the pot.
c) more importantly because your body wants shut of this crap, and its forced the food along quicker to help it... hey presto! - your suddenly hungry again, ready to read for a delicious helping of mid morning cereal bars or some other such crap.
dont eat anything which comes in a bag,box,tin or jar. use only whose fresh vegetables and un-munged meat. avoid sausages etc, unless you make them yourself.
it may sound super-cynical but the wool's been pulled over your eyes for so long, its hard to determine just how much bull**** they're laying on us all.
Dont even get me started on milk!!!
/2ob
Maybe its my conspiracy theory mind kicking into overdrive, but i just cannot see any reason why the govt persists in pushing nonsense dietary advice.. im completely foxed!
Take fibre! fibre is one of the worst possible substances you could possibly stuff in your mouth.
Originaly a waste product of the (wheat) grain industry, suddenly its nice n health to eat and millions of tons are now sold at £2 a box. There has never been any evidence to suggest that bran 'helps' digestion, and if you do any reading, you'll find quite the contrary.
Bran forces the food through the digestive tract meaning
a) your body isn't able to extract all the nutrients is can, since its moving by important portions of your intestine too quickly. Vitamins A D E & K aren't absorbed in the prescence of bran, neither are calcium, iron and zinc. - and thats just for starters. it gets worse ...
b) because your partially digested food is now in the wrong part of the digestive tract it meets select intestinal bacteria sooner than it should, your food begins to ferment as opposed to digest.
leads to bloating, farting and the 'good blow-out' you get on the pot.
c) more importantly because your body wants shut of this crap, and its forced the food along quicker to help it... hey presto! - your suddenly hungry again, ready to read for a delicious helping of mid morning cereal bars or some other such crap.
dont eat anything which comes in a bag,box,tin or jar. use only whose fresh vegetables and un-munged meat. avoid sausages etc, unless you make them yourself.
it may sound super-cynical but the wool's been pulled over your eyes for so long, its hard to determine just how much bull**** they're laying on us all.
Dont even get me started on milk!!!
/2ob
20 August 2003, 12:22 AM
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dont eat anything which comes in a bag,box,tin or jar. use only whose fresh vegetables and un-munged meat. avoid sausages etc, unless you make them yourself.
Fairly sound advice I'd agree
You're right about cholesterol (you obviously understand there is both 'good' and 'bad' types), out of interest what was your readings - if you don't mind saying?
As for fibre, I guess the reasoning behind it's promotion is purely because of the crap a large proportion of people eat - the faster it's out of the body the better
Fairly sound advice I'd agree
You're right about cholesterol (you obviously understand there is both 'good' and 'bad' types), out of interest what was your readings - if you don't mind saying?
As for fibre, I guess the reasoning behind it's promotion is purely because of the crap a large proportion of people eat - the faster it's out of the body the better
20 August 2003, 01:05 AM
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ref the supposed eating too much fat being good for you. Note on low carb you are eating natural animal fat, not processed white flour/sugar fat
loads of research on why it's not bad for you here:
http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/cvd_index.html
loads of research on why it's not bad for you here:
http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/cvd_index.html
20 August 2003, 08:28 AM
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No Mooseracer I wasn't saying you's said I was obese - I meant I'd argue about me being classified as obese!
According to these chart things the doctors have then I'm "seriously obese", but if you say that to someone then it immediately brings to mind a picture of someone like Fat B*stard from the Austin Powers films - someone who can't put their feet together because their legs are so fat, who's arms stick out at 45 degrees to the ground because of the rolls of fat under their armpits.
Thats the normal image that people associate with the word obese, and I do NOT look like that. It was just a personal point about the word obese and what it means to me, not a poke at you
And now (according to my scales this morning) Im only 17 12
According to these chart things the doctors have then I'm "seriously obese", but if you say that to someone then it immediately brings to mind a picture of someone like Fat B*stard from the Austin Powers films - someone who can't put their feet together because their legs are so fat, who's arms stick out at 45 degrees to the ground because of the rolls of fat under their armpits.
Thats the normal image that people associate with the word obese, and I do NOT look like that. It was just a personal point about the word obese and what it means to me, not a poke at you
And now (according to my scales this morning) Im only 17 12
20 August 2003, 09:21 AM
#73
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This is part of my post on the other Atkins thread
And gregh's reply
Are you kidding? Atkins recommends any amount of meat in the induction process, and to leave the skin/fat on, and allows up to 4oz cheese a day, plus butter and cream!!!
If that isn't loads of meat protein and fat, and dairy products, then i'm an alfalfa salad
The human body is not designed to process large amounts of animal protein nor to eat dairy products - cows milk is for baby cows!
>> good job then that the Atkins diet or other low carb ways of life don't have loads of protein and don't have loads of dairy products.
If that isn't loads of meat protein and fat, and dairy products, then i'm an alfalfa salad
20 August 2003, 09:41 AM
#74
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And dead neurons, I don't agree with points 3 and 4 of your post
The reason you should not add salt to your diet is not a taste issue but because the increased sodium can lead to blood pressure problems/strokes etc.
And as for using loads of butter for cooking (most fats/oils should not be heated, particularly dairy derived ones such as butter) and eating loads of cheese, that is not a good idea!
I do not touch ANY dairy products whatsoever, even derivatives such as casein, lactose, whey, etc, or even milk chocolate.
I eat meat rarely, and only certified organic skinless chicken breasts - and then only if I saw it raw and cooked it myself - or organic ham in sandwiches.
I only use organic soya milk, and use tofu as a meat substitute.
I do not eat any processed foods - no convenience foods or takeaways, or junk such as biscuits, pies etc. The only exception to this is organic tomato based pasta sauces.
I use no fats or oils apart from organic cold first pressed olive, sunflower or safflower. For spreads I use "Pure" organic spread.
All fresh produce is organic, and I probably eat at least four or five times the RDA of five portions of fruit or vegetables. Best way to consume loads of fruit and veg is to juice it, but to use a screw type juicer, not a centrifugal one.
I eat loads of nuts and pulses, cereals and pasta (contrary to what you read, provided you do not have a gluten intolerance, wheat is NOT bad for you.
I only drink one cup of tea a day, coffee hardly any time, and mostly drink water (jug filtered) - and NO fizzy drinks.
You can actually create decent meals with these ingredients, and most of all it is HEALTHY.
I still eat chocolate (organic dark) and drink red wine, so there is a point in living!
Best of all, I probably eat more than before in total, and I lost a stone of fat from round the waist that has stayed off since I cut out all dairy, animal fats and processed junk!
Note I am not on a diet, it is a lifestyle healthy eating plan......but it's not for the undisciplined!
The reason you should not add salt to your diet is not a taste issue but because the increased sodium can lead to blood pressure problems/strokes etc.
And as for using loads of butter for cooking (most fats/oils should not be heated, particularly dairy derived ones such as butter) and eating loads of cheese, that is not a good idea!
I do not touch ANY dairy products whatsoever, even derivatives such as casein, lactose, whey, etc, or even milk chocolate.
I eat meat rarely, and only certified organic skinless chicken breasts - and then only if I saw it raw and cooked it myself - or organic ham in sandwiches.
I only use organic soya milk, and use tofu as a meat substitute.
I do not eat any processed foods - no convenience foods or takeaways, or junk such as biscuits, pies etc. The only exception to this is organic tomato based pasta sauces.
I use no fats or oils apart from organic cold first pressed olive, sunflower or safflower. For spreads I use "Pure" organic spread.
All fresh produce is organic, and I probably eat at least four or five times the RDA of five portions of fruit or vegetables. Best way to consume loads of fruit and veg is to juice it, but to use a screw type juicer, not a centrifugal one.
I eat loads of nuts and pulses, cereals and pasta (contrary to what you read, provided you do not have a gluten intolerance, wheat is NOT bad for you.
I only drink one cup of tea a day, coffee hardly any time, and mostly drink water (jug filtered) - and NO fizzy drinks.
You can actually create decent meals with these ingredients, and most of all it is HEALTHY.
I still eat chocolate (organic dark) and drink red wine, so there is a point in living!
Best of all, I probably eat more than before in total, and I lost a stone of fat from round the waist that has stayed off since I cut out all dairy, animal fats and processed junk!
Note I am not on a diet, it is a lifestyle healthy eating plan......but it's not for the undisciplined!
20 August 2003, 09:47 AM
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i dont really agree with anyone cutting anything out of their diet.
IMO you should be able to have everything in moderation and not deny yourself anything. normally if you deny yourself something you want it even more and will almost always end up breaking your diet and having it to satisfy your craving.
i do agree with no processed foods just from a health reason...not from a weight reason....and i too only drink water (4 litres a day) and maybe one cup of tea a day (if i need it), but i will have the odd takeaway as a treat and will eat red meat if i fancy it.
im losing weight this way...granted not as quick as i would if i was cutting out large food areas...but its working for me and i can still eat whatever i want which means i'll be able to stick to this for the rest of my life.
IMO you should be able to have everything in moderation and not deny yourself anything. normally if you deny yourself something you want it even more and will almost always end up breaking your diet and having it to satisfy your craving.
i do agree with no processed foods just from a health reason...not from a weight reason....and i too only drink water (4 litres a day) and maybe one cup of tea a day (if i need it), but i will have the odd takeaway as a treat and will eat red meat if i fancy it.
im losing weight this way...granted not as quick as i would if i was cutting out large food areas...but its working for me and i can still eat whatever i want which means i'll be able to stick to this for the rest of my life.
20 August 2003, 10:18 AM
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I dont really agree with anyone cutting anything out of their diet.
Moderations was my problem - I didn't do it. Best way for me (I think) is to go for "NO!" and then when I'm thinner I'll go back to "OK, just one" instead of "Yes please I'll have 6" !
[Edited by -=Buzz=- - 8/20/2003 10:19:20 AM]
20 August 2003, 10:24 AM
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"i dont really agree with anyone cutting anything out of their diet. "
why not? humans eat all sorts of rubbish and dumping some of it is no bad thing. 5 portions of fruit and veg is goverment talk to help the morons in the land reach 35 without dying.
go find an 85 year old and ask them if they lived on 5 portions a day.
why not? humans eat all sorts of rubbish and dumping some of it is no bad thing. 5 portions of fruit and veg is goverment talk to help the morons in the land reach 35 without dying.
go find an 85 year old and ask them if they lived on 5 portions a day.
20 August 2003, 10:37 AM
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Tiggs...i never mentioned 5 portions.
I just think that if you want something...you should have it and not deny yourself anything...but have the self control and discipline to not go ott with it. Life is too short to waste it all deciding what you can and cant eat.
This is just my opinion tho. Different methods work for different people.
As Buzz said...he couldnt just have one at the moment because he doesnt have the self control to stop. so saying No to it works best for him.
I just think that if you want something...you should have it and not deny yourself anything...but have the self control and discipline to not go ott with it. Life is too short to waste it all deciding what you can and cant eat.
This is just my opinion tho. Different methods work for different people.
As Buzz said...he couldnt just have one at the moment because he doesnt have the self control to stop. so saying No to it works best for him.
20 August 2003, 10:50 AM
#80
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You never see lions on treadmils, and monkeys dont jog. (even though i see plenty lol)
If they don't catch anything after trying so hard they'll die. Not right away of course, but many more failed attempts and they'll start wasting away.
The simple point with humans is they no longer have any need to catch their own food. You need to exercise or do some activity that burns off excess calories to stay fit and healthy. You can't rely on diet alone to keep your heart and lungs in tip top condition.
The low-carb vs low-fat vs any other diet is a different discussion completely. There are pros and cons with both and personally I try to stay clear of any extreme diets.
Before people embark on any extreme diet change they should look at exactly everything the eat and just how much exercise or activity they do. I'm sure the majority would see the real reason why they are overweight and some simple changes maybe all they need.
Stefan
20 August 2003, 11:06 AM
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No I disagree...
Actually I don't, but then the thread would be over
As I've said lots I know why I'm overweight but it's not just small changes that need to be made for me - I've been kidding myself for far too long that I'm actually healthy when I knew really that I'm not, and I need a whole lifestyle change. This is just the start I hope - I could be hit by a bus tomorow of course
Actually I don't, but then the thread would be over
As I've said lots I know why I'm overweight but it's not just small changes that need to be made for me - I've been kidding myself for far too long that I'm actually healthy when I knew really that I'm not, and I need a whole lifestyle change. This is just the start I hope - I could be hit by a bus tomorow of course
20 August 2003, 11:20 AM
#84
Scooby Regular
Joni
LOL - eating out is a nightmare these days. Easier not to bother
Tiggs et al
Re the five portions a day, the important thing about an 85 year old is that they would have spent the vast majority of those years NOT eating highly processed foods full of chemicals and additives as these are relatively recent things, so wouldn't have to balance out the junk with the five portions
Monsanto has a lot to answer for - making vast profits by slowly poisoning people in the process
LOL - eating out is a nightmare these days. Easier not to bother
Tiggs et al
Re the five portions a day, the important thing about an 85 year old is that they would have spent the vast majority of those years NOT eating highly processed foods full of chemicals and additives as these are relatively recent things, so wouldn't have to balance out the junk with the five portions
Monsanto has a lot to answer for - making vast profits by slowly poisoning people in the process
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