Supercue,

it has happened to me, difference being was that the person was indeed old. i seem to recall that the people in this (over 65) age bracket are indeed the safest of all drivers.

bearing mind that my car was in fact PARKED when this happened i feel that i will play my tune as loud as i wish.

the man was 70 plus - can't remenber exact age now. but the funniest part was that

a) denied it depite witnesses!
and
b) starting squaringup to me like he was Lennox Lewis!

frankly a laughable state of affairs. bu66ered my car though, i got paid out eventually.

i am sorry to hear of your freinds neck though and i am not starting an arguement of old v young - who's better, because i do not believe in all that.

i am prepared to believe that younger people are more likely invovled in accidents.

however if you look at TRUE enthusiasts, with a avid interest in cars, bikes and driving skills, i think you will find that the majority of those who fall into said - old or young - are the more conciensious and alert.

for someone like myself and many other drivers on scoobynet, who take REAL pride in being sensible and safe, it is a little provocative to have generalisations made in such a way as earlier in this thread.

granted i probably over reacted somewhat, but there is an element of truth in what i have said,

Weava

 

Ive noticed alot of observations on this thread reffering to bad driving and headwear.

Apparently if you drive in a baseball cap,your driving is bad.

You lot have obviously not seen or been passenger in, a car driven by a guy in a balaclava!

 

Rant Mode
Dont agree with this age thing at all:

I am 23 - drive a Sti 5 Type R (circa 320-330bhp) before this I had a MY98 UK scoob (circa 240Bhp).
I consider myself to be a very safe driver - despite having a car that will "go" I normally get circa 250 miles on a full tank of petrol (so that should show how much i "use" the car).

Admittedly, when I first got a scoob, i did tend to drive it fast (although nowhere near as fast as the 1.8GL scoob I had before that), and admittedly I have had a couple of brown pant moments - but not recently, I value my car, my life and other peoples lives too much!

I dont need to prove anything, I know my car is fast, and will beat a lot of cars - so why would I want to risk my life to prove this?

Ok, I overtake, and I drive faster than 60mph, but i RELIGIOUSLY stick to 20/30/40mph speed limits.

I know there are some d!cks my age who give drivers in general a bad name (believe me, it is not confined to scoobs), but there are d!cks of all ages who do exactly the same.

Dunno why it always has to degenerate into a "all young drivers should be banned" thread - it really p!sses me off - I work hard for what iv'e got, I cherish what i have got - and I consider myself to be as "safe" a driver as the majority of people. I do not consider myself to be a "good" driver (ala traffic cops etc), but would love to be able to attain the status of a "good" driver!

/Rant Mode

 

two further things,

ALi-b - tw@t whether in burberry hat and nova or whatever, will probably still be driving like a plonker indefintiely, i think most will agree that there is a certain elementof drivers who fall into this category regardless of said headgear and type of car.

Supercue - to be honest i do not dis-agree with the majority of your earlier points regards drivers.

in think that at 18 you should be able to choose the car you drive on the basis that you can vote, rights of passage etc. that marrys in with other "rights"

i wanted a 205 gto @ 17.

parents vito'd and good on them. at 18 i was allowed to make my choice and i got one. had a great time in it and am now converting it to mi16 and as a side project to scoob

Weava

 

I don't know which Greasemonkey you were referring to Weava. If you put your reading glasses on you will see that I said newly qualified drivers shouldn't be allowed in anything with more than about 70bhp until they've a couple of years experience and have passed an advanced test. I didn't specify an age, I specified a time after passing test, which would apply whether the driver is 17 or 70, so in what way am I getting at youngsters specifically?

As for "outrageous" generalisations, whether you care to admit it or not, accident rates among the 17-25 age group, and the 17-25 male age group specifically are higher than any other, and you can b*tch and moan til the cows come home about how horribly unfair that is on those who haven't had accidents, but it doesn't change the reality.

 

Weava that's cool if you've read my replies I'm NOT ageist at all.
I enjoy driving fast but not at the expense of others or more importantly me.

I do think that something has to be done with new drivers like what has been done with bikes. I love bikes but after my trip to the ring I will never get on one again but thats by the by.Saw too many bikers get hurt badly and some dead!

Most of us have quick cars as pure enthusiasts nothing to do with age at all.

More importantly how do we remove the idiots from the road for all of us?

 

we cant do anything to remove them, if u get rid of one theres always another goin round the next corner. they will always be there unfortunatly

sooner or later the law will catch up to them. just a shame ppl ave to die for things to be done bout it. whether its road conditions or a accident black spot.

 

i hear what you say Greasemonkey - and that means you above this post btw.

all i can say is that i do not like being lumped into the same category as the 17-25 age group of accident prone drivers.

full no claims and protected bonus thankyou very much.

needless to say, you can not really dissagree with my comment at the top of this page regards TRUE ehthusiasts and their driving manner?

well i suspect you will.

look i am not trying to play devil's advocate and i hope no-one that is caning me at the moment will do so for the sake of it.

i think my points are valid and indeed alot made by others in this thread.

i think i started off on the wrong foot as the thread got my back up a bit, lets calm it there is no real need for this - is there?

Weava

 

Ok I started it with this post.
I accept that this was a huge sweeping generalisation, but it is based on the fact, as greasemonkey has pointed it, 17-25 year olds have the most accidents. Maybe my manifesto would get more votes like this:

If I was Prime Minister I would

1.Remove speed cameras from all non-accident related sites.
2.Raise motorway limit to 85mph
3.Increase speeding fines to £120
4.Remove penalty points for offences <35 in a 30, < 47 in a 40, <60 in a 50, <75 on unrestricted, <100 on a motorway.
5.Graduate new drivers
e.g
<100bhp 1 years of passing test
<150bhp 3 years of passing test

IMO a lot of sense in the above.

 

government cud easily and quite safely allowed aspeed limit of 85mph on the motorways

 

frankly,

peace supercue - i am unsure how to get the nutters off the road, but the roads are ever increasing in numbers so doubfulit is achievable .

i think also there is some sense in what you say MattW.

you would be able to have say suzuki swift at 17 which is still blo0dy quick for that age group!
and then a whole plethora of gti based vehicles thereon until twenty, which is about par for the course anyhow.

do you not think that insurance premiums alone already do this job to a larger extent anyway?

it saves the need for that sort of legislation and the inherent enforcment that it would involve!?

Weava

 

to reiterate my last thread, I have allways said to freinds and colleagues that the car test should be revised to take on-board a similar system that is used for motorcyclists. This has been in effect for many years and when the new system was introduced there was uproar in the bike fraternity. But, we all accepted it over time. Luckily I took my test during the change-over period so wasnt affected. However I did witness freinds having to go through the revised system and then progress to four wheels and take their car tests. Some didnt bother with bikes, as most dont seem to these days, and there was a marked difference between those of us who rode bikes for a few years and then progressed to cars when compared to the guys'n'girls who whent straight to a car. The bike riders definatley had more road sense had respected changes in the weather etc whereas the 100% car drivers had the cocoon syndrome of "I'm nice and safe in my tin box so lets max it everywhere".

Christ, I'm rambling again What I'm trying to say is that the bike test system is structured such that you are gradually introduced to bigger and more powerfull machinery and through that learn to respect what you have as you progress to the next level. This just doesnt happen with cars. There is nothing stopping Rich Boy from taking his test as soon as possible and then going out and buying the most powerfull car known to man!!!

Somethings got to change with the car test. It did with bikes so why not the cars also????

 

Weava, I only mentioned the caps and nova's to refer to the max power farternaties, which is partly responsible for us young drivers being blamed for all the bad driving on public roads.

I know it's not just cap's and car. Apologies to anyone who is a fan of burburry (yuk ). I could easily mention saxo's etc. but I don't want to get a rise out of saxo boy As I'm sure not every max power reader behaves like a tw@t, it's very easy to label someone based on that. But I can't ignore half the nova's, saxo, 106's to name a few, with max stickers, scooby intakes, lexus lights, and caps driving around the area like loons.

I'm sure there are some people with "maxed" cars who drive sensibly. But to me, so far it seems to only be confined to a mac D's drive thru whilst being observed by a dozen pigs

 

This helps but is not the cure. I don't think insurance is the right way as the Insurance companies make millions and you and I have to pay outragous premiums when we are not to blame.

Besides there are plenty of ppl with parents who are happy to help pay for their offsprings car & insurance.

Surely the best way is to have a probationary period when anyone passes their test not getting stuffed on insurance alone?

 

OK, after reading the more recent posts (and going back to reading the old ones properly)
I agree with what people are saying (as thats basicallly what I did) i.e.
17 - 1.1 F reg Polo
18 - 1.8 Impreza GL
21 - MY98 Impreza Turbo
22 - STi 5 Type R

I think it would be a good idea, as I feel that I know a lot more about SAFE driving now than when i was 17 (and trying to impress me mates)
I think if I had a powerful car when I was 17 - I would not be around today!!

 

Good points.

My bhp limits are based on new cars, more weight to power, and granted a 205GTi 1.9 is 137 bhp IIRC.

Once I'm Prime Minister I'll tie the detail down

 

Not if I get more votes!!

 

this argument/friendly debate cud go on and on and over and over again. no doubt it will arise again.

but realistically the only ppl that are truly blamed for being bad/reckless drivers are the car moddifyer and the car enthusiast.

this has mainly been brought on by cruises, which i have never been a fan of. especially wen u have complete ****** who do burnouts infront of hundreds of people that there lucky not to plow down.(and yes if any1 does do burnouts in a car park to show off u r a *****)

i truly believe maxers/cruisers/car enthusiasts get the bad name they do because of cruises. there portrayed in newspapers and on the tv as the devils children lol. scum of the earth. becos of the minority who act the fool at them.

this rubs off on all the general public and police. thats my opinion anyway. lol sum wot went of topic but...............

i bet nearly everyone has had at least one occasion wen sum has been next to u, behind u or in front and looked at u like scum becoause u either have alloys, loud exhaust, etc etc and a modded car in one way or another. i know i have on a few occasions. wen i havent even done anything rong,

 

ALI-b: i agree with the view that the max power fraternity comments, just since i amthe one saying generalisation -naughty naughty i would not wish to be seen as hypocrytical - yes there a certain element of that crowd that are unreasonable in their driving habits and before anyone flames me, have you seen any of the free vid's thqat come on the fromt of said publication? the cruises they seem to cover are evidence enough!

regards insurance premiums - agree that i do not wish to see insurers make £££££'s outof us poor motorists and act as govt watch dog, but i am not a fan of legislation unless properly applied - which in fairness it rarely is. a very difficult issue to address.

Weava

 

And what age were McRae and Co. when they first won rally championships, good drivers I think everyone would agree - so if you generalise, good drivers miss out and its been a while since I was 17. Anyway coffin dodgers make you drive faster to "SAFE" overtake.

Its a bit like saying that guns kill people - when in fact its people that kill people - its the same with bad driving

 

I hate to mention this, but how old was Jenson Button when he was done for speeding?

Oh hang, on. He's not a good driver

 

Eh? In what way would preventing this lot being behind the wheel of quick daily drivers have stopped them becoming the successful competitors they became? Rallies are held off the public highway, and any legislation could always be framed to make specific exceptions for competion cars on road sections...

 

That about eight times I've managed to get you now.

I look at all the interesting threads and heres you having a go at everyone.

You make this site so worthwhile ROTFL at you

 

"Rallies are held off the public highway"

You're kiddin me right ?

No traffic lights etc.

[Edited by Redkop - 9/22/2003 7:48:46 PM]

 

Quote: "Er, no. You're really not the brightest bulb in the box, are you?"


Ha Ha Ha - Bright enough not to fished in though.

My list of qualifcations would embarress you.
Your title of "Greasemonkey" - hmmm nickname for a mechanic ?

 

lightning101,

Comments like that dude, will get you knowhere on here. Your verging on a severe ticking off from the MODS using blatant language like that. Calm down mate

 

Managed to "get" me? In what way exactly? I gave a reasoned answer to the point you raised about McRae et al and all you can do is respond with barely concealed expletives? Doesn't sound like me who's been "got".

As for what my screen name may or may not imply, you know nothing. For all you know I could be Richard Burns...

 

Lightning leave it out there's no need for that m8.
If you have a beef G-M take it elsewhere

 

Apologies to the MODS. I don't normally use bad language - check my previous threads - but I have had such a good laugh and good advice from everyone else - why do some people have to spoil the banter and the good nature of the threads. If this was an I.T. thread - I'm sure I could make most people look foolish - but thats not in my nature.

So no nasty intent from me - never was.

I'm too damn hard to care LOL

 

Right Mr Burns (Greasemonkey) - Time for a clean sheet I think - like I said I respect your advice, sorry for takin the p1ss.