know wheree Tiggs is coming from.
the steptronic in the 540i is excellent but in real press on driving I personally enjoyed the manual more.
probably because I can't help but ring every last drop out of a good engine.
there's nothing worse than coming out of a corner without being able to downshift into the right gear or worse enter a corner and downshift when you're trying to carry speed.
that engine is just fantastic. induction kit and good exhaust system should make it very hard to give up.

 

The 540 suits the Auto IMO, want a sports saloon get the M5, the 540 is more of a mile muncher..

 

And you can get a 1999 manual with reasonable mileage for £14-15k. Not quite bargain territory, but not expensive for what you get.

Or consider a 535 - still a V8, slightly lighter and more chuckable, still supremely fast. You'll get a 2000 or 2001 model for £12k if you look hard.

 

E55 are a tad ugly compared to a 5 series sport.

a ferrari is a sports car proper, a 540 is a sporty exec car.

with the step i have yet to find myself in the wrong gear and on an avarge drive to work i spend 80% of the time not caring anyway....i only need the sporty bit 20% and i get 90% of what i want when i need it. I also drove a FQ300 evo and decided that having 100% of sportiness for the 20% was not enough to compensate for the lack of all round carability the other 80%.

i cant imagine ever getting a manual car again unless it was a proper sprorts car.....same as i wouldnt have manual windows even if they went up and down quicker!

 

I take it this is a modified Scoob ??

I aint gonna give the "compare standard with standard and modified with modified" argument, I am just asking so its clear for me as IMHO the 540 would be pulling away steadily from the Scoob above these speeds....



E39 540's are quick enough to 60 (6.1 secs for a 1700-1800KG car is NOT slow when its 2WD) but they are devastatingly quick at higher speeds as well.

Gonna try and explain something but not sure if it will come out right :/ -

You know (in general) when cars get to about 120MPH they feel as if they are "backing off" or "running out of puff" i.e. they dont accelerate as much from 120MPH upwards as they did from say 80MPH upwards so it feels like its actually slowing down ?? (FEELS like it... Thats the key word)


Well I have only had my own 540 upto 130/135 along an empty M-Way when I picked the car up to take it home.... Why did I only go to 135 ?? Not because its illegal (if that bothered me then I wouldnt have done it) but because the car did not back off or "run out of puff" even the slightest bit.... The 540's have a 155MPH limiter and I would confidently put money on it that it would reach this limit without breaking a sweat and without a hint of "running out of puff"


People that dont know these cars under-estimate them slightly. Sure they appear to be huge lardy barges (1700-1800KG as stated depending on options) but to coin a yank phrase - "there aint no substiture for CC's" -

4398cc
286BHP
325lb/ft
0-60 in 6.1
1/4 mile in 14.01


Not bad for near 2 tonne car



Another thing is the size of the engine and the fact its not even trying hard for the power the same way a blown 2 litre car is..... As mentioned earlier, the BMW 4.4 litre V8 engine is just run in at the 100,000 mile mark.


I have had a blown 2 litre car before I got this and I know what I would rather have.... The 540 is just sooo much easier to live with, has less servicing and maintenance requirements for the same mileage etc and is just far more refined....

 

After reading a pretty similar thread to this last year sometime, I went and test drove a 540 at the BMW dealer in Bedford. Although it was obviously a quick, good handling car, it just felt a little too boring. I think it was the auto box that did it and it was a pre-facelift car so it looked dull but I decided that I'd put off getting a car like this until I was at least in my forties.

It's like sport. Make the most of being able to mountain bike and play squash etc now and postpone playing golf until later on in life when that's just about all you can manage

[Edited by Andy Mid. - 10/5/2003 11:34:52 AM]

 

Having spoke to my mate again re 540i, he backs up Ritchie1 statement, that he too has had it on the limiter, and was done with ease!!!
P.S. Would a v8 fit in my classic!!!
dave

 

I recently bought an M5 and did not even consider a 540 or any kind of auto. The M5 is a lot better dynamically than a 540 but only slightly harder riding / noisier etc. If you can afford it then definately spend the extra.
If you live in London or another major city then an auto would be a good idea (I hated London traffic in a manual hire car) but if you live anywhere else a manual is vastly superior for fast and fun driving.

 

Depends how far your budget can stretch I guess and how paranoid you are about leaving an M5 in the middle of a city or whatever.....


Didnt think it was worth the hassle for my own circumstances between that and insurance cost (24 years old and paying £850 Fully Comp as it is) for the increase in performance.....

Lets face it, you aint gonna come across other cars that will embarrass the 540i very often.... even Scoobies (c'mon you knew that was coming )

 

Being 24 is gonna cause probs for any very fast car option. I drove a Metro 1.4 till I was 25 while saving some cash then I got a Scooby. Insurance sucks, big time.

 

"but if you live anywhere else a manual is vastly superior for fast and fun driving."

errrr....no its not. you mean if you lived anywhere else.

i dont live in london and rarley use a motorway but for me an auto is vastly superior for my fast and fun driving....is also vastly vastly superior for the other 95% of my driving.

T

 

Richie,

The STI5 in question was not modified at the time and was running 276 bhp, as they all do.

I've never had a 540i, but have recently sold my E39 M5, so I know a thing or tow about Beemers. You can't compare an M5 to a Scoob, and nor should you really compare a 540i to an Impreza. I was impressed by the performance of the 540i in question, and was merely saying that.

Matt

 

"You can't compare an M5 to a Scoob"

I think you can from the point of view of performance and target market. I'm not the only one who would consider running 540 daily + Modded Scooby fun OR M5 +- trackcar or various permuations of diesels and trackcars/Scoobies etc. Plus I would trust a 3 y.o. M5 for reliability more than I would trust a new Scooby, so given they are all about £25k it is a very interesting comparison. Car market is quite fluid now, people chop and change, buying a £20k car and then the next car being £50k is not unexpected if you are young and your income changes rapidly for the better, and you've not had kids yet. Also the running costs for an apparently more expensive car that is relatively depreciation resistant do bring comparisons nearer. I know for sure that my Scooby running costs over the last three years far outstrip the cost of running an M5 over the same period, but that is mainly the cost of modifications which cost more than the car.

 

You're right, its horses for course.... The 540 wont handle as well as a 4WD saloon like the Impreza.... Its not as much of a barge as ppl think and handles exceptionally but its 4WD v RWD and having come from a Cavalier Turbo (2.0 16v 4WD) I can state my opinion in this case.


On the flip side, the 540 is superior for things like interior and simple every day road handling (not just corners if you get what I mean)


I have it for almost a year now and I never miss an opportunity to slip it into sports mode and floor it just to hear the complete silence turn into a V8 howl .... And you know... It never ceases to make me smile

 

I actually used to own a MY2000 Scoob with Prodrive Performance Pack and Prodrive Driver Enhancement pack fitted. Loved it but became too impractical for me and with second kid on the way I bought an M5. John you won't be disappointed if you do the same. M5 is much quicker in a striaght line even than my PPP'd Scoob. It's actually scary, because where my Scoob ran out of puff (in comparative terms of course) at about 80 the M5 is only really getting into it's stride. I've had wwheelspin at 80mph in third gear!!!

It also handles well and can easily keep up with a Scoob in the dry on anything, but in the wet it won't, not a chance. In fact not much will keep up with a Scoob in the wet. Having said all this you are more aware of the mass of the car and this means it s less chuckable. But it is also relaxing and comfortable, something which my Scoob definitely was not.

I miss the Scoob though on occasions, they are devastating and untouchable in the right conditions. Glad I bought the M5. They are getting really cheap now for what you get. Mine was £60k new and cost me less than £30k three years later. Value for money is amazing.

 

The 540 wont handle as well as a 4WD saloon like the Impreza.

that doesn't make sense to me or do you mean grip rather than handling? or even traction? but handling is such a personal thing i dont see how you can be that general

I had a Scoob and test drove a 535 and loved it for different reasons i loved the Scoob,but no way would i say the BMW wont handle as well.It is a superbly well balanced car imo.

 

Gents,

My M5 lapped Castle Coombe in 1.24 mins and my STI RA lapped in 1.21 mins.
M5 is standard apart from quick shift, Scooby has 330bhp engine, brembo brakes, coil over suspension and road legal slicks.

The M5 was quicker than 3 or 4 P1's which really did impress me!

Dom.

 

Dominic,

Have to say an RA with that much grunt isn't going to be caught by much is it? Nice that the M5 was so competitive (although 3 seconds isn't exactly close). Did the brakes fade? (Common issue on track days I hear).

Tang

 

The BMW will "handle" as well as if not better than any Scoob. This is the age old problem of people confusing grip with handling. The BMW might let go sooner in the wet, but the handling is fantastic.

I did a trackday at Donington in the wet in my M5 and was leaving Evos, Scoobs and Cossies behind. The "Handling" on my M5 was brilliant. Much better than my STI5 Type R or my R33 GTR V-Spec Skyline.

As Dom said, there is not much between a standard M5 and a nicely set up track-orientated Impreza RA. Bear in mind that the M5 weighs about the same as a classic Mini MORE than the Impreza and it's handling looks even more impressive.

Matt

 

Slicks, Brembos and coilovers could easily be responsible for a second each, slicks probably 2.

 

I'll hopefully have my M5 in Jan or Feb...

My Hartge Cooper S is a cracking little car but I'm missing RWD cars now...getting damp and getting 220 odd hp down through the front wheels is a pain...

 

"Loved it but became too impractical for me and with second kid on the way"
Does the M5 have more doors? does the M5 have more seats? Is the M5 cheaper to run? Why the **** would an M5 be more practical than an Impreza???
dave

 

Question for the M5 guys do the mirrors fold electronically ??

 

Dave,

Quieter, the exhaust was giving us all tinnitus on the motorway - 80mph was 4000rpm - just on boost and noisy, the ride was harsh (but great when you really needed it). There IS less space in the Scoob than an M5 - a mate and I actually scientifically measured it during the summer (he had a Scoob Wagon and had a third on the way).

On top of all that it is more comfortable for me (I am 6'6"), about the same in terms of running costs as mine was, and quicker, plus IMHO a much nicer car. It is also more understated, and with two kids in the car I was getting sick of fools goading and having a pop at the traffic lights. All in all a no brainer for me. You are ovbviously entitled to your own opinion. Anyway who needs an excuse?

Angrybeats - yes, very handy. Plus the mirrors on an M5 are more sculpted than a normal 5 series - one way to spot them.

Cheers

Tang

 

Still dreaming of an M5 to replace the Impreza wagon- next yr the prices will drop even further I hope due to the new V10 M5.

Regarding the 540, I presume they are pretty damn quick once rolling. After having my old wagon scooby-ecu'd I had a run in with one and it put in a very good performance. The old wagon seemed to have the legs of it much to the chagrin of the 540 driver who did his best to tick all the boxes on the "w*nker BMW driver" checklist (despite the fact I've owned a couple of beemers myself I always managed to be one of the majority of well mannered BMW drivers-this guy wasnt't). The relatively slow 0-100 time quoted earlier in the thread would explain why I pulled a number of metres on it from a standing start. He seemed to brake pretty damn late for such a big heavy car though- he did look a bit wild round the roundabout, great fun I'm sure but all that oversteer has to waste speed. Is the 4.0 a very heavy lump? I also heard the 540's steering uses the old recirculating ball system resulting in worse handling than the smaller engined models.

I think the 540 has to be THE exec bargain of the moment, eclipsed only by the old V12 750's in terms of VFM.

 

If you can handle the running costs the V12 750s are fantastic vfm, agreed.

 

I have had my M5 for about 6 months and it still amazes me with its performance, handling and build quality!

I have done a couple of track days in the M5, the brakes were terrible and I warped the discs on the first 2 at Outon Park (very hot day) and another hot day at Castle Coombe. I have changed the pads to fast road spec. and use some proper fluid and this has helped. but they still fade a bit when used hard.

The M5 wasn't so good around Oulton Park as it kept getting too hot, but it was amazing around Castle Coombe and was not too far behind my RA and to be honest a lot more statisfying to drive hard...you can't beat a powerful rear wheel drive car on a dry track!

Only mod that I've done is fit a quick shift as the standard gear change is rubbish!

Dom.

 

Fair comment Tang!
dave