mrklaw

Hang on, there are scare stories on here about how you daren't run your scooby on 95 and must use SUL (97 is the standard I think) otherwise your UK approved car will explode. My subaru dealer said you can run on 95 but get better performance/response from 97. Thats only an increase of 2 RON.

Yet an increase of 3 won't make the slightest noticable difference?

Will someone make their mind up please?

EvilBevel

To put it very short:

95 RON fuel may make your car run with less power than it would on the recommended 97/98 fuel, because of potention detonation and knock correction (ignition retard)

For cars up to 2000 having a higher octane number than what it's designed for will do nothing for performance (unless you start tuning). The older ECU's can only adjust things downwards, not upwards (simply put, I know they can do a very small ignition advance when all is a-OK, never seen it on my car though (DD)).

RON does not equal "performance" BTW, it's purely a number that defines the knock resistance. Calorific Value is what defines the "oomph" in fuel.

Later cars, and especially the STi 7/8 *may* see an increase in performance, as that ECU will constantly try to find the optimal igntion point before detonation.

Neil Smalley

Theo

Probably me being thick, I think the above covers all non JDM cars very well, but I seem to remember JDM STI's ECU have problems with 95 RON being below the knock/det thresholds for the standard map to cope with in normal spirited driving.

I've always gone with my own personal rules of
97 RON min for any non JDM car and 97+octane(or 100 Ron) for a JDM car.

Andy555

I have just rung BP Customer Services and tried to ask some questions regarding BP Ultimate

Tel No is 0800 402 402

All he could say that "its worth waiting for" and did not even know when it was out. Before this I did ask him about a higher octane fuel, and he did mention a new Super Umleaded at 98 Ron, and not 100 Ron.

Scooby-Doo

Will 102/3 RON be a problem ? If you have put Ultimate in thinking its SUL 97 than added a booster ?

POC

lol I just called the local BP station and spoke to the manager.

POC - "Hi, I've just been reading about the new ultimate fuel, I know its not being released until the 7th, but can you tell me if you currently have the fuel in you SUL tanks?"

Manager - "Where did you hear about this?"

POC - "Ed from scoobynet told me" "I just read it on the internet"

Manager - "Right, well if you call customer services on blah blah"

POC - "Yeah I know I can call them but that wont tell me if you currently have the fuel there, do you have it in your tanks at the min?"

Manager - "Cant tell you that"

POC - "Why not"

Manager - "Just cant"

POC - "so you are not telling me that you dont have it"

Manager - "I will not confirm or deny"

POC - "So you do have it!?"

Manager - "not saying"

POC - "hummmmmmmmmmm, I think you have it"

Manager - "thanks for your call"

POC - "no no, thank you!"

So what you rekon boys? I think he has it, should I go fill up the scooby?

Andy555

But is it 98 or 100 Ron????

EvilBevel

Sorry Neil, yes forgot to tell that bit.

Ignition advance maps on the "classic" JDM cars are quite scary when you look at them, and putting 95 RON in these cars is a recipy for disaster. That's not a scare story.

Andy555

Just spoke to the press office, and he would not really say much.

But told him situation regarding Jap cars Optimax plus booster, to get around 100 Ron, and would we need booster with BP Ultimate? and he said that he did not know, so I said from that I assume that its not 100 Ron fuel, but at the end, he said that my assumptions were correct, eg new fuel will not be 100 Ron.

Tel No is 01908853828

C

POC - just go for it

If it goes pop just dont cry too much

scooby_si

lol @ POC what's his number if we wear him down he will crack
Si (amateur torturer confess lol)

POC

lol go for it mate....... 01442 257391, let us know how you get on

C

scooby_si

PMSL i just tried a similar approach at my local BP

1st minimum wage candidate: ohh hang on i'll just get my boss.........

Boss: hello can i help u

: i've just been reading about your ultimate fuel (ok i borrowed that bit ) now i no it's not OFFICIALLY released till the 7th but i was just wondereding if that would mean you already have it in your SUL tanks?

Boss: hmmmmm

: hello
Boss: [shhh]That's a yes[/shhh]

:COOL so dont suppose u know offhand if it's 100RON or similar to optimax at 98 or so?

Boss: Not sure i can give u a number........

: lol no that's OK i already have the customer services number but i will be trying yer fine goodies out

OK so i kinda lied on that last bit as i wont have a car worth trying on for a while yet.
But it seems the eagle has landed, 10-4 Bravo whiskey attack attack ATTACK!!!! lmao
Si

[Edited by scooby_si - 10/3/2003 11:38:11 AM]

[Edited by scooby_si - 10/3/2003 11:39:02 AM]

Neil Smalley

Good answer Theo, thanks.

There's enough info in that FAQ to keep me confused for months

I once did some IT consultancy work for a company that makes Tetra-Ethyl-Lead(TEL) so I kind of remember what it did. Fecking nasty stuff to make though. The whole plant smelt of chlorine(not dangerous levels, just newly chlorinated swimming pool smell).

Mind you not as dangerous as when I visited a site that had nukes on site. Strangely enough my MP3 player chose 'Two Tribes' as I drove in, anyway that's another story.

Andy555

Spoke to the press office, and he would not really say much.

But told him situation regarding Jap cars Optimax plus booster, to get around 100 Ron, and would we need booster with BP Ultimate? and he said that he did not know, so I said from that I assume that its not 100 Ron fuel, but at the end, he said that my assumptions were correct, eg new fuel will not be 100 Ron.

Tel No is 01908853828

What does everyone Think?????

Edcase

Did he categorically state that the fuel was not 100RON?

Also, it is in their interest for people NOT to know the details of their launch a)to steal the thunder and b)less time for competitors to react, so they wouldn't admit it anyway. I know enough marketing and PR people in my line of work to know that!!!

My source told me 100 RON, and the guy refitting the pumps last night also said 100 RON, so I'm holding out for it being 100 RON

Edcase

I also find it hard to believe they would spend an untold amount in the refining process / R&D, £8m on marketing and god knows how much to refit pumps / flush tanks etc. for the sake of a 1 octane point increase on their current SUL fuel.

I may be proved spectacularly wrong, but we'll see.

Andy555

Edcase, he did not say a lot,
told him how imports need Optimax plus booster, and asked him if I used BP Ultimate if I would still need booster to get to 100 RON,
he said he did not know,
so then I said "well that sounds like a NO", and he eventually said that my assumptions were correct.

He also said that the launch was not just at targeting higher RON, it said something about a new additive, but would not go into more detail other than it was part of the new fuel.

I would put a lot of money on the fact the BP Ultimate will be 98 and not 100 Ron, think this person knows a lot more than the person selling the fuel, as he is in the Press Office.

Edcase

Have you ever worked / dealt with press? I have and do regularly.

Never believe a word they say.

Either way won't help with CORNERING

Andy555

Ring him and give him a grilling 01908853828 BP Press Office

They would have to flush tanks if it has a new additive, and also 8M to BP is not a lot for advertising.

Hope I am wrong and you are right.

Edcase

Phew, just beat you...must be that extra 2 Octane

mutant_matt

Theo/Neil,As I understand it, if running on the High Octane map, and a certain amount of retard has to be dialled in, it will switch to the Low Octane Map (which presumably runs less Boost and Advance). On the EU cars, this works well as the too maps are different but on the JDM cars, the Low Octane maps are the same as the High Octane maps (well, on the old shape (MY99-00) at least).

WRT 98 or 100 RON - we don't have to wait long do we?

Matt

quicksprint

And is it pure coincedence that SHELL are now running a big advertising campaign on T.V ?.....or do they know something we don't!!

steve.

Boss Hogg

Edcase -I work in PR and to say we lie is a gross insult - we merely bend the truth a bit

However, one valid way of confirming something, without confirming it (if you see what I mean) is to let someone know that an assumption they've made may not be far of the mark -as happened here. So'll bank on it being a 98 Ron fuel with additives.

Let's face it. why would BP launch a 100Ron fuel into the UK? 98 Ron is perfectly good enough for the majority of punters (ie those without jap spec cars) and most people who buy fuel don't understand of give a monkey's toss what 100 ron means.

However BP can sell it to these punters along the same lines as optimax -ie a reponsive fuel for today's performance cars that has additives to take care of the engine and the environment yadda yadda yadda...

Whereas they can sell it to Scoobynet members with the strapline
"Pikey caravans burn quicker with Superplus"

greasemonkey

<devil's advocate mode> Why not? That's exactly what Shell did, after all!

Include some additives and up it a fraction of an octane so the marketers can claim reduced emissions and more power (under a certain set of nebulously defined circumstances), give it a poncy name and spend a loadamoney advertising it, preferably closely associated with a famous racing driver. It's worked for Shell, so if you're Mr BP, doing the same and trying to out-market the competitor probably looks like a good deal. </devil's advocate mode>

8 million quid on a marketing campaign is a drop in the ocean to a company like this. Most of it's probably written off against tax anyway. Doubly ironic that McRae's not with Ford at the moment, as he's probably the only one BP could tie personal promotion into. Maybe he'll get a "paid" drive there next year?

BTW, the one thing nobody seems to have considered on this thread is that all pump petrols sold in the UK have to conform to the relevant British Standards, meaning that, by definition, there can never be huge chemical disparities between the "Super Unleaded" (to BS EN 7800) you buy at one garage and the one further down the road.

I don't profess to know what the prescribed maximum octane rating in 7800 is, but it may be that this requirement would be enough to prevent anyone selling a 100 RON fuel on the forecourt in the UK, even if they wanted to. Time will soon tell though.

Andy555

IT WILL ONLY BE 98 RON WITH EXTRA ADDITIVES FOR CARE TO YOUR ENGINE


Hope I am wrong.

V-techland

PMSL @ Edcase re: April fool!!!!

If you had posted this yesterday then it would have been an October fool ;D

Adam555

Yeah I agree with Andy - it makes more sense - no way it will be 100 RON - the market for 100 RON is just to small

It will be exactly the same as Optimax - 98RON with extra chemicals to run cleaner, etc

Least I won't have to drive out my way to fill up at shell all the time - now a BP will do aswell

Adam

TelBoy

Unless the 100 RON is significantly more expensive than the 98 RON version, i reckon BP have missed a golden opportunity to take business away from Shell.

As it is, it looks like we'll all become indifferent between Optimax/Ultimate. Why settle for 50% of the enthusiast market when you could have gone for the kill??

jonmorris

I can't see why it would be only 98 octane. Until a few years ago, all SUL was 98 anyway.

Why pay millions to advertise a fuel that is going back to what it was in the first place (bar a few additives and a fancy name)?