*** BP ULTIMATE FUEL IS HERE: The facts***
03 October 2003, 04:36 PM
#62
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have said it before, speak to mycroft and he will explain why the bp idea is far superior to optimax and also to Vpower once it comes out.
BP is a normal fuel which is improved by use of additives. His expertise explains why in a way which might hold water, but I can make something up if it pleases the masses.
Have a look at what iain (aka mycroft) said here.
BP is a normal fuel which is improved by use of additives. His expertise explains why in a way which might hold water, but I can make something up if it pleases the masses.
Have a look at what iain (aka mycroft) said here.
03 October 2003, 04:38 PM
#63
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But do people in this sector of the market REALLY care about some additive or other?
They want something which makes their car go *faster*, safely. End of!
They want something which makes their car go *faster*, safely. End of!
03 October 2003, 05:55 PM
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This fact has always confused me and although I know nuffin about mapping. why did'nt Subaru put a line of code in the map(or whatever you do) something like
If RON<=95 then retard/advance=failsafe value
etc
If RON<=95 then retard/advance=failsafe value
etc
imo SUBARU know the jdm cars are a bit iffy
but there not designed to go over 112mph so its no real problem
03 October 2003, 06:56 PM
#69
neil, buy an old vauxhall vectra, they have a 95/98 ron sitchover plug under the dash, there is quality ECU control for you. 
There is so much rusbish talked about JDM cars on here. They are not iffy in the slightest.
The P1 (an official UK car) has exactly the same engine map as an STi5/6. There are two diferences. 1) the speed input is modified to expect an MPH pulse trigger rate rather than KPH trigger rate. 2) the knock correction is slightly more active, so it reacts to det slightly faster because it was designed for 98RON rather than 100RON. The ignition maps (all 3 of them), boost maps, correction maps etc. are the same. The ECU hardware is the same, it's the software that alters the kock correction response time.
The ECU has 3 ignition base maps, IgnitionB, Low Octane and High Octane. It uses the high Octane map until det is detected, at which point it uses some knock correction until it decides it cant take enough timing out with that, it will then switch to the low octane ignition map. However, the low and high octane ignition maps on the P1/STi5/6 are identical, so you wont get anymore retard than that available through the knock correction control, hence why they should not be used with 95RON. Using a P1 on 95RON is really pushing the knock correction to the limit so if you drive the car hard, you should only use SUL.
Of course, all P1's had the magical Brochet tablets put in the fuel tank too, there is another 10RON
LOL
There is so much rusbish talked about JDM cars on here. They are not iffy in the slightest.
The P1 (an official UK car) has exactly the same engine map as an STi5/6. There are two diferences. 1) the speed input is modified to expect an MPH pulse trigger rate rather than KPH trigger rate. 2) the knock correction is slightly more active, so it reacts to det slightly faster because it was designed for 98RON rather than 100RON. The ignition maps (all 3 of them), boost maps, correction maps etc. are the same. The ECU hardware is the same, it's the software that alters the kock correction response time.
The ECU has 3 ignition base maps, IgnitionB, Low Octane and High Octane. It uses the high Octane map until det is detected, at which point it uses some knock correction until it decides it cant take enough timing out with that, it will then switch to the low octane ignition map. However, the low and high octane ignition maps on the P1/STi5/6 are identical, so you wont get anymore retard than that available through the knock correction control, hence why they should not be used with 95RON. Using a P1 on 95RON is really pushing the knock correction to the limit so if you drive the car hard, you should only use SUL.
Of course, all P1's had the magical Brochet tablets put in the fuel tank too, there is another 10RON
LOL
03 October 2003, 06:58 PM
#70
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Knackers, edit bug...
Two things here:
Firstly, it is the additives, together with the general consistency of the product, rather than simply the octane rating itself, that seems to make Optimax slightly better than "normal" SUL.
Secondly, the oil companies don't give a sh*t about "this sector of the market". They're not spending eight million quid targeting 20,000, 40,000 or even 100,000 motoring enthusiasts. Optimax, and this Ultimate, are mass-marketing concepts, oops, sorry, products, and the advertising campaign will be targeted at 20 million petrol engined car owners.
A lot of people here seem to think that Optimax and this new fuel are designed for "us". It just ain't so. The primary purpose of these rebrands is simply to make Joe Clueless Numpty more likely to fill up at Shell or BP than anywhere else, while at the same time trying to leverage slightly higher pump prices.
A few years back there was a popular public conception that all fuel was the same and thus cheapest was best. This reduced profit margins, and the entry of the major supermarkets into petrol retailing knocked prices even further as well as decimating the large oil companies' market share.
The big promotional/loyalty campaigns were the first major attempts from the big refiners to retain custom. Optimax is merely the first salvo of the next battle, while Ultimate is BP's response. Forget any ideas about BP listening to the motor enthusiast, this is all marketing-driven.
In which case a higher octane rating alone would make no difference at all to 99% of UK petrol car owners.
You need a higher calorific value to get more energy from the same quantity of fuel, and you simply won't find the major refiners selling this through the pumps because:
a) it's probably illegal
b) the cost and PR consequences could be disastrous if people's engines started blowing
c) the numbers simply don't make sense. Would you pay £1.20 a litre for an extra 10bhp?
BTW, Newto, although BP own Castrol, Williams' current fuel partner is Petrobras. While that remains the case, the chances of Schumacher R or JP being seen promoting what is effectively a rival to one of their own sponsors is slim to anorexic!
Ed - if they sell 100 octane in Greece, why not sell it all over the world? BP Ultimate in Oz is 98 RON for example.
There are many potential reasons. The huge disparity in fuel taxation in the UK is a huge factor mitigating against higher raw material costs here, as are the amounts of investment necessary in refining plant, along with the different fuel standardisations in each market, the experience of other markets (like Greece) where these fuels are trialled, etc. etc.
All this is rhetorical however. We don't know yet exactly what the rating of this new fuel is going to be, but either way we don't have long to find out.
But do people in this sector of the market REALLY care about some additive or other?
Firstly, it is the additives, together with the general consistency of the product, rather than simply the octane rating itself, that seems to make Optimax slightly better than "normal" SUL.
Secondly, the oil companies don't give a sh*t about "this sector of the market". They're not spending eight million quid targeting 20,000, 40,000 or even 100,000 motoring enthusiasts. Optimax, and this Ultimate, are mass-marketing concepts, oops, sorry, products, and the advertising campaign will be targeted at 20 million petrol engined car owners.
A lot of people here seem to think that Optimax and this new fuel are designed for "us". It just ain't so. The primary purpose of these rebrands is simply to make Joe Clueless Numpty more likely to fill up at Shell or BP than anywhere else, while at the same time trying to leverage slightly higher pump prices.
A few years back there was a popular public conception that all fuel was the same and thus cheapest was best. This reduced profit margins, and the entry of the major supermarkets into petrol retailing knocked prices even further as well as decimating the large oil companies' market share.
The big promotional/loyalty campaigns were the first major attempts from the big refiners to retain custom. Optimax is merely the first salvo of the next battle, while Ultimate is BP's response. Forget any ideas about BP listening to the motor enthusiast, this is all marketing-driven.
They want something which makes their car go *faster*, safely. End of!
You need a higher calorific value to get more energy from the same quantity of fuel, and you simply won't find the major refiners selling this through the pumps because:
a) it's probably illegal
b) the cost and PR consequences could be disastrous if people's engines started blowing
c) the numbers simply don't make sense. Would you pay £1.20 a litre for an extra 10bhp?
BTW, Newto, although BP own Castrol, Williams' current fuel partner is Petrobras. While that remains the case, the chances of Schumacher R or JP being seen promoting what is effectively a rival to one of their own sponsors is slim to anorexic!
Ed - if they sell 100 octane in Greece, why not sell it all over the world? BP Ultimate in Oz is 98 RON for example.
There are many potential reasons. The huge disparity in fuel taxation in the UK is a huge factor mitigating against higher raw material costs here, as are the amounts of investment necessary in refining plant, along with the different fuel standardisations in each market, the experience of other markets (like Greece) where these fuels are trialled, etc. etc.
All this is rhetorical however. We don't know yet exactly what the rating of this new fuel is going to be, but either way we don't have long to find out.
03 October 2003, 09:07 PM
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One thing to add is that BP often rip us off BIG TIME at the pumps for SUL.
Last Christmas, I needed SUL and found the BP in Harlow. 89.9p for SUL (service station prices) and they even refused to accept the Nectar card because it was part of Safeway, not Sainsbury's!!
So I have a theory. We've all misunderstood the talk about 98 or 100.. It's not the octane rating, but rather the price. BP intend to charge 98p or 100p per litre for their new "ultimate price" fuel.
Last Christmas, I needed SUL and found the BP in Harlow. 89.9p for SUL (service station prices) and they even refused to accept the Nectar card because it was part of Safeway, not Sainsbury's!!
So I have a theory. We've all misunderstood the talk about 98 or 100.. It's not the octane rating, but rather the price. BP intend to charge 98p or 100p per litre for their new "ultimate price" fuel.
04 October 2003, 12:38 AM
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Boss Hog
I hope you were joking about your "pikey" coment.
I find it unbelievable that people can use offensive language like this and get away with it. You would not be able to use the N word to describe a black person would you? Why then, do you feel it is ok to use an equally offensive word to describe a Gypsy? You think it would be ok to burn a Gypsy's caravan do you?
I've had to put up with racist bigots like you most of my life.
I post as Mad Gypsy because I am a Gypsy and I'm deeply offended by your coments. Shame on you.
I hope you were joking about your "pikey" coment.
I find it unbelievable that people can use offensive language like this and get away with it. You would not be able to use the N word to describe a black person would you? Why then, do you feel it is ok to use an equally offensive word to describe a Gypsy? You think it would be ok to burn a Gypsy's caravan do you?
I've had to put up with racist bigots like you most of my life.
I post as Mad Gypsy because I am a Gypsy and I'm deeply offended by your coments. Shame on you.
04 October 2003, 01:00 AM
#75
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Please let's not turn what has been a grown-up discussion about petrol into an argument about racism and political correctness.
Your proposition (and the whole PC bandwagon in general) is weakened slightly by the fact that it is far from unknown for black people to refer to themselves as n*gg*rs (and white people as sundry other vivid nicknames), and I daresay at least one gypsy has referred to another as a pikey in the past.
I'm sure the Boss doesn't spend his time dousing gypsies with petrol. While it's obviously something you have strong views about, it's not really fair to tar him as a racist thanks to one throwaway comment.
Your proposition (and the whole PC bandwagon in general) is weakened slightly by the fact that it is far from unknown for black people to refer to themselves as n*gg*rs (and white people as sundry other vivid nicknames), and I daresay at least one gypsy has referred to another as a pikey in the past.
I'm sure the Boss doesn't spend his time dousing gypsies with petrol. While it's obviously something you have strong views about, it's not really fair to tar him as a racist thanks to one throwaway comment.
04 October 2003, 01:10 AM
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How can you dismiss this as political correctness? It's racial ignorance.
I can't believe you can defend coments like this!! I'm shocked, I really am.
I can't believe you can defend coments like this!! I'm shocked, I really am.
04 October 2003, 02:14 AM
#77
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At no point did I defend Boss Hogg's comment. You are right, it is ignorance, but ignorance (the absence of knowledge according to the standard dictionary definition) is present in everyone, and whether we like it or not it's a fact of life that no amount of discussion here is going to end. I just think in the circumstances it might be better to rise above it and move on.
Scoobynet is not really the place for this sort of discussion, and attempting to start one is most likely to descend into mudslinging and a locked thread, probably leaving you even more annoyed/frustrated as a result.
Scoobynet is not really the place for this sort of discussion, and attempting to start one is most likely to descend into mudslinging and a locked thread, probably leaving you even more annoyed/frustrated as a result.
04 October 2003, 09:47 AM
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B0ll0cks!!!!!!! 
As I thought, and as I was cryptically told by the press office.
So someone was winding up Edcase, and all of us as well, at least it sounds better than Optimax.
As I thought, and as I was cryptically told by the press office.
So someone was winding up Edcase, and all of us as well, at least it sounds better than Optimax.
04 October 2003, 10:10 AM
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... after few searches on google this morning I found this lurking at bpplus.com
BP Site Locator - You can find all the BP stations which meet specific criteria in your area, or any particular location.
(Apologies if this has been posted before)
BP Site Locator - You can find all the BP stations which meet specific criteria in your area, or any particular location.
(Apologies if this has been posted before)
04 October 2003, 02:08 PM
#82
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So someone was winding up Edcase, and all of us as well,
at least it sounds better than Optimax
04 October 2003, 08:09 PM
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LOL - back in the hutch paulpox
As for me being misled, I can't reveal exactly my source for obvious reasons other than the person is a car enthusiast who works in marketing, and who would know this kind of info
I then stopped at a BP station on the way home from London and there was a guy there refitting the SUL pumps so I pretended I knew more than I did to see what he would give away and he also said it was 100 RON.
Again, time will tell for certain, but I'm starting to resign myself to the fact that its 98 ron, albeit achieved in a 'better' way (ie during the refining process) than optimax.
As for me being misled, I can't reveal exactly my source for obvious reasons other than the person is a car enthusiast who works in marketing, and who would know this kind of info
I then stopped at a BP station on the way home from London and there was a guy there refitting the SUL pumps so I pretended I knew more than I did to see what he would give away and he also said it was 100 RON.
Again, time will tell for certain, but I'm starting to resign myself to the fact that its 98 ron, albeit achieved in a 'better' way (ie during the refining process) than optimax.
04 October 2003, 08:17 PM
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Edcase, we believe you, if anyone else had the same contacts, I am sure we would have posted the same info. Got us all excited on a Friday afternoon
Nevermind, will be better than Shell, as it is done without adding octane boosters, apparently???
Nevermind, will be better than Shell, as it is done without adding octane boosters, apparently???
04 October 2003, 09:28 PM
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Does anyone know if us bog-men in Northern Ireland will get this BP Ultimate fuel?
We don't get Optimax, presumably because it would never work in our donkeys, but I really wish we had a few more options. I was able to run my car on Optimax while in Scotland and it seems to make a difference (STi8)
We don't get Optimax, presumably because it would never work in our donkeys, but I really wish we had a few more options. I was able to run my car on Optimax while in Scotland and it seems to make a difference (STi8)