TOP GEAR: Octavia out-performs WRX
07 November 2003, 09:09 PM
#92
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Nacro
If the Impreza looks like
, why buy one in the first place? Likewise, why keep it? If I felt that way about my car, I'd get rid of it like a shot - not matter what the cost or loss financially.
If I was such a fan of the Skoda or any other car, I'd beat down the door of my local dealer and get one on the road ASAP. I did test drive the Octavia RS over 2 years ago. Nice enough car, but I didn't rate it high enough to buy one.
I've nothing against Skodas at all, but you seem to have plenty against Subarus.
If the Impreza looks like
cheap sh*t inside and out
If I was such a fan of the Skoda or any other car, I'd beat down the door of my local dealer and get one on the road ASAP. I did test drive the Octavia RS over 2 years ago. Nice enough car, but I didn't rate it high enough to buy one.
I've nothing against Skodas at all, but you seem to have plenty against Subarus.
07 November 2003, 11:05 PM
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Question number 27:
"Is it possible to have owned one or several Imprezas and still see the benefits enough in another car to want to buy and enjoy owning it "?
Answer
"Yes"
(For the record, 2 Imprezas and 3 Legacys, 1 Octavia 4x4 220bhp)
"Is it possible to have owned one or several Imprezas and still see the benefits enough in another car to want to buy and enjoy owning it "?
Answer
"Yes"
(For the record, 2 Imprezas and 3 Legacys, 1 Octavia 4x4 220bhp)
08 November 2003, 07:41 AM
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quote: "why buy one in the first place? Likewise, why keep it?"
It may look like **** on the outside and interior but as we all know it drives like a dream.
It may look like **** on the outside and interior but as we all know it drives like a dream.
08 November 2003, 08:34 AM
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Who said I'm unhappy with it? I just don't delude myself into thinking it is perfection- it has its faults and I live with them as the car is so good in other ways- a bit like an Octavia.
08 November 2003, 10:39 AM
#100
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... and I can add that the Octavia has been very cheap to run - my 30k (standard rather than long life oil) service cost me £59 FFS !
... fuel consumption has averaged 30% better and its still 4x4
... and its 95% as quick. Apologies for the remaining 5%
... fuel consumption has averaged 30% better and its still 4x4
... and its 95% as quick. Apologies for the remaining 5%
08 November 2003, 12:01 PM
#102
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quote "It's just what I've read..."
No I think you'll find it's what you inferred, incorrectly as it happens, so I've put you straight. I haven't at any time said I'm unhappy with my Impreza, it's a great VFM reasonably quick car. When it comes time to replace it I'm fairly confident I've found another car which offers even better VFM, the Octavia.
What I find hard to understand is the attitude of people who own a car and are blind to it's many faults. There is no such thing as the perfect car.
No I think you'll find it's what you inferred, incorrectly as it happens, so I've put you straight. I haven't at any time said I'm unhappy with my Impreza, it's a great VFM reasonably quick car. When it comes time to replace it I'm fairly confident I've found another car which offers even better VFM, the Octavia.
What I find hard to understand is the attitude of people who own a car and are blind to it's many faults. There is no such thing as the perfect car.
08 November 2003, 12:45 PM
#103
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I just get tired of folk in Scoobynet who seem to spend their time looking for every tiny little problem with the Mark, and then blowing it out of all proportion.
I'm well aware of the faults with the car - 91/2 years of Impreza Turbo ownership has taken care of that. To read the comments some make about Imprezas however, you'd think the car was complete junk! You've already said (or agreed with someone) that the interior, "looks like cheap ****". I, along with many others, disagree. Besides, what looks and actually is, are two different things.
As for Skoda's. I realised they made good cars many, many years ago. My parents looked at one as a 2nd car back in the mid '70s. I considered competing in the Skoda Challenge a decade later. In 2001 I test drove and considered purchasing the Octavia you keep bleating on about. I just didn't, as it wasn't the car for me.
My Wife also didn't fancy the Octavia either, when we were looking for a new car this Summer. Nothing to do with the badge - all to do with the car, and she's an ex Hyundai owner, so she knows all about the badge snobbery of others!
As for putting me straight; you haven't. However, your comments about the irony of deluded Impreza owners, driving around in their pedestrian Japanese saloon cars, with a cheap, **** interior, attempting to bolster their self-image, whilst avoiding damage from vandals, thieves, and jealous non owners, when they could be in a much better built Skoda... have been noted. My final words on the thead.
I honestly wish you well and hope you find the car everything you'd like it to be. Maybe one day I'll join you in the ranks of Skoda ownership? For now, as I've said in another thread, I'll probably take on the badge snobs and buy a Nissan - a 350Z.
Cheers
I'm well aware of the faults with the car - 91/2 years of Impreza Turbo ownership has taken care of that. To read the comments some make about Imprezas however, you'd think the car was complete junk! You've already said (or agreed with someone) that the interior, "looks like cheap ****". I, along with many others, disagree. Besides, what looks and actually is, are two different things.
As for Skoda's. I realised they made good cars many, many years ago. My parents looked at one as a 2nd car back in the mid '70s. I considered competing in the Skoda Challenge a decade later. In 2001 I test drove and considered purchasing the Octavia you keep bleating on about. I just didn't, as it wasn't the car for me.
My Wife also didn't fancy the Octavia either, when we were looking for a new car this Summer. Nothing to do with the badge - all to do with the car, and she's an ex Hyundai owner, so she knows all about the badge snobbery of others!
As for putting me straight; you haven't. However, your comments about the irony of deluded Impreza owners, driving around in their pedestrian Japanese saloon cars, with a cheap, **** interior, attempting to bolster their self-image, whilst avoiding damage from vandals, thieves, and jealous non owners, when they could be in a much better built Skoda... have been noted. My final words on the thead.
I honestly wish you well and hope you find the car everything you'd like it to be. Maybe one day I'll join you in the ranks of Skoda ownership? For now, as I've said in another thread, I'll probably take on the badge snobs and buy a Nissan - a 350Z.
Cheers
08 November 2003, 01:32 PM
#104
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I think we're coming to a conclusion here !
1) Subaru and Skoda both make 4x4 Turbo cars with very good performance potential.
2) One costs a fair bit more to run than the other, but the other one has that extra 5% or maybe 10% in the way it drives.
If everyone can accept these 2 statements then we can move on in harmony and stay open-minded in future.
1) Subaru and Skoda both make 4x4 Turbo cars with very good performance potential.
2) One costs a fair bit more to run than the other, but the other one has that extra 5% or maybe 10% in the way it drives.
If everyone can accept these 2 statements then we can move on in harmony and stay open-minded in future.
08 November 2003, 01:32 PM
#105
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When I test drove my MY93 WRX my first comment was "my God, it's like a Nissan Micra in here, it's hasn't even got a ******* clock!".
Still bought it, still love it.
Why is everyone getting so defensive?
Still bought it, still love it.
Why is everyone getting so defensive?
08 November 2003, 01:33 PM
#106
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Well spotted - marque - my mistake and my sincere apologies. I don't seem to remember doing it before; not sure why I did it then, and certainly won't be doing it again thanks to your kind intervention. 
I don't find your comments hurtful - I don't know you. I just wondered what you were trying to prove, and who you're trying to prove it to? You were certainly having a good pop at the personality, intellect and social standing of Subaru owners.
Feel free to continue posting on this topic, but no more for my benefit please. I won't be reading it or commenting further.
As I said before - good luck with your car.
Cheers
PS By the way, it's stereotype.
I don't find your comments hurtful - I don't know you. I just wondered what you were trying to prove, and who you're trying to prove it to? You were certainly having a good pop at the personality, intellect and social standing of Subaru owners.
Feel free to continue posting on this topic, but no more for my benefit please. I won't be reading it or commenting further.
As I said before - good luck with your car.
Cheers
PS By the way, it's stereotype.
08 November 2003, 01:54 PM
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quote: "PS By the way, it's stereotype"
Mine was typo........yours sheer ignorance but thanks for the proof reading. Glad to see you were paying attention.
As for the conclusion, I think people need to open their eyes a bit and try to be objective.
Mine was typo........yours sheer ignorance but thanks for the proof reading. Glad to see you were paying attention.
As for the conclusion, I think people need to open their eyes a bit and try to be objective.
08 November 2003, 04:10 PM
#108
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how can a service cost £59 ?
The oil, filter and labour must be more than that. You are not running on mineral oil are you ?
What exactly did they do ?
The oil, filter and labour must be more than that. You are not running on mineral oil are you ?
What exactly did they do ?
08 November 2003, 04:29 PM
#109
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The last service I had done on my Impreza cost €70 about £50 for an oil and filter change. Labour rates here are about £18 per hour at a main dealer.
I expect the Skoda to be about £40 for a basic oil change.
I expect the Skoda to be about £40 for a basic oil change.
08 November 2003, 05:06 PM
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I said that about in a roundabout way 15 pages ago and I ototally agree. They are good VFM something which has always been said about scoobs. I am not a badge snob and drive the car I want to drive.
Your labour rates are good, my local Subaru dealer use to be £60+vat an hour and that was 2 years ago. My local Ford dealer is about £50 an hour.
Your labour rates are good, my local Subaru dealer use to be £60+vat an hour and that was 2 years ago. My local Ford dealer is about £50 an hour.
08 November 2003, 05:19 PM
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quote: "When it comes to performance cars, for most speed junkies VFM means very little "
I agree but as most of us here have Imprezas I assume that we've compromised and looked for a blend of price/performance. One thing an Impreza isn't is a no compromise speed machine. It is a cheap car that delivers a good blend of price and performance.
I agree but as most of us here have Imprezas I assume that we've compromised and looked for a blend of price/performance. One thing an Impreza isn't is a no compromise speed machine. It is a cheap car that delivers a good blend of price and performance.
08 November 2003, 06:06 PM
#114
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quote: "I agree but as most of us here have Imprezas I assume that we've compromised and looked for a blend of price/performance. One thing an Impreza isn't is a no compromise speed machine. It is a cheap car that delivers a good blend of price and performance."
Oh, definately - I agree 100%. What I'm getting at is that most people here will already have a turbo Impreza, and will have (hopefully) bought it knowing what they were getting for their money. They've already made their price/performance compromise. Whilst I'd argue with you on the "no compromise speed machine" point about some models (22B, P1 etc) even if we're talking about bread and butter turbos/WRXs these still give much better performance than the Skoda. Given most owners reasons for getting an Impreza, unless their situation changes chances are they'll be looking for more performance in their next car, not less.
I guess what I'm really saying is that if Skoda made a car with the same performance as a WRX, and that car had a similar price/specification as you're promoting above it'd be a deal even jaded Scoob owners wouldn't be able to dismiss . At the moment though, the Skoda just trades lower price and (arguably, it seems) better build quality for less performance. The fact that isn't going down too well here is probably more to do with owner priorities than a lack of objectivity.
Deano
Oh, definately - I agree 100%. What I'm getting at is that most people here will already have a turbo Impreza, and will have (hopefully) bought it knowing what they were getting for their money. They've already made their price/performance compromise. Whilst I'd argue with you on the "no compromise speed machine" point about some models (22B, P1 etc) even if we're talking about bread and butter turbos/WRXs these still give much better performance than the Skoda. Given most owners reasons for getting an Impreza, unless their situation changes chances are they'll be looking for more performance in their next car, not less.
I guess what I'm really saying is that if Skoda made a car with the same performance as a WRX, and that car had a similar price/specification as you're promoting above it'd be a deal even jaded Scoob owners wouldn't be able to dismiss
. At the moment though, the Skoda just trades lower price and (arguably, it seems) better build quality for less performance. The fact that isn't going down too well here is probably more to do with owner priorities than a lack of objectivity.Deano
08 November 2003, 06:16 PM
#115
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quote: "I guess what I'm really saying is that if Skoda made a car with the same performance as a WRX, and that car had a similar price/specification as you're promoting above it'd be a deal even jaded Scoob owners wouldn't be able to dismiss"
With a Jabba remap the 4x4 is about as quick as a new age WRX so that is exactly the deal "jaded Scoob owners wouldn't be able to dismiss". If I buy a WRX and intend to leave it standard then I'd be mad not to get the Octavia instead.
With a Jabba remap the 4x4 is about as quick as a new age WRX so that is exactly the deal "jaded Scoob owners wouldn't be able to dismiss". If I buy a WRX and intend to leave it standard then I'd be mad not to get the Octavia instead.
08 November 2003, 06:28 PM
#116
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quote: "With a Jabba remap the 4x4 is about as quick as a new age WRX so that is exactly the deal "jaded Scoob owners wouldn't be able to dismiss". If I buy a WRX and intend to leave it standard then I'd be mad not to get the Octavia instead."
I thought we're talking about standard cars here? I've read yours (and others) comments on modded Octavias and taken them onboard, but in any of my comments, I'm comparing the two straight out of the box, new cars. On that basis the Impreza has the better performance. Whether that difference in performance, along with any badge cachet is worth the extra £3500-£4000 it's up to the buyer to decide.
Out of interest, is the Jabba chip manufacturer warrantied? If not, is there a dealer/manufacturer authorised upgrade route for the 'Tavia like the Scoob. If we're going to start talking modifications then surely that should be another strong point in the Scoobs favour. I'm sure most new WRXs either go unmodified, or go down the Prodrive route.
Deano
I thought we're talking about standard cars here? I've read yours (and others) comments on modded Octavias and taken them onboard, but in any of my comments, I'm comparing the two straight out of the box, new cars. On that basis the Impreza has the better performance. Whether that difference in performance, along with any badge cachet is worth the extra £3500-£4000 it's up to the buyer to decide.
Out of interest, is the Jabba chip manufacturer warrantied? If not, is there a dealer/manufacturer authorised upgrade route for the 'Tavia like the Scoob. If we're going to start talking modifications then surely that should be another strong point in the Scoobs favour. I'm sure most new WRXs either go unmodified, or go down the Prodrive route.
Deano
09 November 2003, 01:30 AM
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Deano
The thread I started is actually about the Top Gear Owner Survey of the all round ownership experience - which is where the Octavia scored so highly. Things (as they do on here) have moved on to the general 'Scooby versus' debate.
We can take this off in all directions, but 'Value for Money' is a hugely subjective and personal matter - unless you stick to the 'what do I get for my money'. On this alone I would argue (being an ex-multi-Subaru owner remember) that the Octavia 4x4 (or vRS if you can live with FWD) offer better value for money.
On the std versus modded issue. The 1.8T engine is in a massive state of detune on the Octavia, whereas the Impreza is in a far higher state of tune 'out of the box' - I know, my engine melted on a 99MY FSSH. Sure, you can buy PPP and protect the warranty on the classic and get around 240bhp and lots more usable torque, and things get even better for the 03MY, but boy is it expensive.
I'm a Subaru fan so I could have bought a decent dealer 01/02MY WRX Wagon and added PPP for a total around the £15500-£16000 mark.
Instead I chose 02MY Skoda plus Jabba remap for £11000 (- the only time I've had my car 'chipped' when they took over 20 rolling road runs and 4 hours to perfect it to my 'spec' which was low and mid-range pull over top end - result 220bhp/230lb/ft).
If you bear in mind that after my Impreza meltdown experience I went out of my way to find out about tuning options and the engineering behind the VVT 1.8T, my result was a genuinely conservative result compared with what is possible. This is before we go down the traditional induction, decat and large turbo options, which I don't intend to do personally.
So, my car has soft suspension, a higher ride height than necessary and the brakes are standard Audi fare. But, I'm used to modifying my Subarus to suit, so money permitting I know that the Skoda is more than capable of being specced up further. The strange thing is that after 12000m in the car, I have never wished I was back in my classic Impreza. 03MY with 265bhp PPP maybe, but at double the price of the Octavia ? True Value.
The thread I started is actually about the Top Gear Owner Survey of the all round ownership experience - which is where the Octavia scored so highly. Things (as they do on here) have moved on to the general 'Scooby versus' debate.
We can take this off in all directions, but 'Value for Money' is a hugely subjective and personal matter - unless you stick to the 'what do I get for my money'. On this alone I would argue (being an ex-multi-Subaru owner remember) that the Octavia 4x4 (or vRS if you can live with FWD) offer better value for money.
On the std versus modded issue. The 1.8T engine is in a massive state of detune on the Octavia, whereas the Impreza is in a far higher state of tune 'out of the box' - I know, my engine melted on a 99MY FSSH. Sure, you can buy PPP and protect the warranty on the classic and get around 240bhp and lots more usable torque, and things get even better for the 03MY, but boy is it expensive.
I'm a Subaru fan so I could have bought a decent dealer 01/02MY WRX Wagon and added PPP for a total around the £15500-£16000 mark.
Instead I chose 02MY Skoda plus Jabba remap for £11000 (- the only time I've had my car 'chipped' when they took over 20 rolling road runs and 4 hours to perfect it to my 'spec' which was low and mid-range pull over top end - result 220bhp/230lb/ft).
If you bear in mind that after my Impreza meltdown experience I went out of my way to find out about tuning options and the engineering behind the VVT 1.8T, my result was a genuinely conservative result compared with what is possible. This is before we go down the traditional induction, decat and large turbo options, which I don't intend to do personally.
So, my car has soft suspension, a higher ride height than necessary and the brakes are standard Audi fare. But, I'm used to modifying my Subarus to suit, so money permitting I know that the Skoda is more than capable of being specced up further. The strange thing is that after 12000m in the car, I have never wished I was back in my classic Impreza. 03MY with 265bhp PPP maybe, but at double the price of the Octavia ? True Value.
09 November 2003, 07:28 AM
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I wasn't comparing standard car with standard car at all. I was comparing how fast and cheap a Jabbad Octavia is compared to a standard new age WRX ie you can spend 4-5 grand less and get a car that is just as fast. As far as the Subaru badge being worth more or respected more, maybe 5 yrs ago. These days I would say things are edging very close.
