NACRO

You have a point there.........you could always cut your own holes in the bonnet max power stylee though.
Actually perhaps we are on to something there, gold wheels, big spoiler, hole in the bonnet, stick on a pleiades badge and a respray in Mica blue and hey presto! An Impreza with a better quality interior.

GammonRoll

Groan. Please stop!

Beemer_Deano

Quote: "I wasn't comparing standard car with standard car at all. I was comparing how fast and cheap a Jabbad Octavia is compared to a standard new age WRX ie you can spend 4-5 grand less and get a car that is just as fast. As far as the Subaru badge being worth more or respected more, maybe 5 yrs ago. These days I would say things are edging very close."

Sorry, then I've been comparing eggs with oranges - as a second hand/aftermarket tuned car I appreciate you can save money and get (nearly ) the same performance. That's why I didn't consider mods relevant though - it's all "ifs" and "buts". If I bought a slow 10 grand car instead of a quick 20 grand car, I'd probably be able to make the 10 grand car go quicker with that spare cash. Still wouldn't be the same though

As to the badge value, I'd have to disagree. Subaru might not have the "yuppie" badge appeal of BMW, Merc, or Audi, but it's a well respected brand (even if it's only with teenagers and rally nerds ). Skoda still base all their advertising on a "C'mon, we're not as bad as we used to be" approach. As long as they do that people will still sneer and make jokes. It's a sad fact of human nature, but it's no less a fact. The inverse snobbery mentioned earlier is a great trait if you have it, but most people don't.

Deano

NACRO

I think the point is that the Octavia is actually better built than the Impreza while costing less. Also we are talking about an outlay of less than £500 to bring it up to speed ie a simple remap.

For 5K (or more) less you can have a new car that performs around the level of a WRX, a bargain.

As for the perceived badge snobbery I think you'll find that those in the "know" and many professional types regard the Skoda marque as far more credible. The people who hold Subaru in esteem as a marque tend to be folk from blue collar backgrounds, burberry cap wearers etc.

I personally don't care about the perceived image of the manufacturer of the car I buy, thus why I bought an Impreza in the first place and why I'll probably end up with a Skoda next. I just think it's pretty funny that some people are deluding themselves about where Subaru is positioned in peoples minds.

Beemer_Deano

Flat 4x4

I'd forgotten the original thrust of the thread.... it seems so long ago

I hope from what I've posted I don't leave any doubt that I can see how the Octavia is good value for money. I suppose what I'm getting at going back to my original post (and I really don't mean this in a detrimental way) is that the Skoda is running to keep up with the bottom of the performance Impreza range, and whilst I agree the Skoda is VFM, nothing anyone has posted has convinced me it makes the Scoob any less VFM, given what you get

On the subject of the mods to the 4x4 though - that's an extra 50% BHP over standard from the chip isn't it? Is the engine/turbo really identical to the 220+BHP Audi versions, and does the remap change any of the characteristics of the 4x4? I believe in the Audi the ECU controls the FWD/4WD switching so I'm assuming it's the same in the Octavia?

Cheers,

Deano

Flat 4x4

Deano

1) VFM is a REALLY personal thing.
In my mind, my last Impreza was at the edge of Running costs v performance and I could not justify a WRX wagon that was better built, marginally slower but still the same to run and a fortune to upgrade to even a 2 year old used one - I would still have 'had' to upgrade that one !

2) ECU and remapping the 4x4 1.8T (or vRS)
The 4x4 and vRS come with 150 and 180bhp but the same engine.
I was massively wary and sceptical about big gains, but I was 3 years out of date from my last Audi A4 on the engine side. When the engines became VVT fly by wire, 210 rather than 195bhp was the normal point for 'off the shelf, one fits all rechips'

-) With a custom remap (just like a Tek3 rather than a Tek2) the map is adjusted to suit your own car. I wanted to play safe and 220bhp is at the bottom end of the scale. Owners who are happier to always run on SUL/Optimax and prefer top end power over torque are regularly coming out with a reliable 230-235bhp.

3) The 4x4 system / turbo
Its a version of the Audi TT/S3 Haldex 4motion 4WD. Not identical, but the same concept. Switchable ESP comes as standard (like S3)
I've had no problems with it, though there are a lot more electronics involved than I'm used to with a rigid 50:50 split and I'm still learning the pros and cons. For handling the power and putting the power down, it still feels exactly as standard, and if I was inclined, I'm told that 280lb/ft is a sensible limit to upgrade further to.

-) Turbo and engine. The TT225 (210 of old) differs internally and on the intercooler side. Bear in mind that 265/280bhp seems common ground for this engine and you get an idea of the margins built in with the lower tune 1.8T (Octavia).

I've uprated one part on the car - replacing the cheap (Bosch)plastic dump valve which I know used to fail when I was into Audis 3,4,5 years ago. Other than that I feel far more confident with this remapped engine at 220bhp than a classic Impreza Tek2'd (or equivalent) to 245/250bhp.

The 'Q-Car' nature of the 4x4 (even over the vRS) is exactly like my first Legacy Turbo had.

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

Narcd,

If I change my Scoob then it'll be for something quicker as 'standard', so I'll be looking for at least 280BHP or faster in speed. Can't say that I'd be happy with a chipped 230BHP Skuda as it'll be slower even in chipped up mode.

My guess is that there'll be a lot of scoob owners who think the same.

You and your followers are like the Jehovah's, who come preaching at my door when I already have Christianity, which I'm happy already with. Do you think it's your duty to convert us poor wayward souls on Scoobynet to the Skuda faith?

F

NACRO

No, I have an Impreza and don't even own a Skoda. I might do one day rather than buy a new age Impreza. It's a bang for buck thing.

I'm not evangelising as I don't think the Octavia is a perfect car by any means, it just happens to offer an exceptional blend of performance and economy. Traits I like in my cars, thus why I have an Impreza.

Flat 4x4

Floyd

I agree, Jehovah's witnesses are often uninvited. As you'll know, true Christians make suggestions, share experiences and let you come to your own conclusions, with a helping hand along the way if its needed.

As I've experienced Scoobydom several times over, its only right and proper that I share my experiences for a fulfilling amd alternative way of driving. I've found that going faster and faster and faster isn't always the way to happiness. And I like my Skoda.

john banks

Star performance told me today that the 4x4 has less strong internals and smaller turbo than the 180. That conflicts the info on here. Are they mistaken with the huge number of VAG 1.8T derivatives?

How do the Octavia internals compare with 225 1.8T TT?

mutant_matt

Also, I was under the impression that the TT225/Cupra-R had a different Turbo and intercooler(s?) than the VRS/Cupra-T?

If this is the case then a vRS/Cupra-T chipped/remapped to 225 is going to be different to the TT/Cupra-R is it not?

Anyone?

Matt

Beemer_Deano

Sorry Nacro, I'd missed your post at the end of page 6 - you posted while I was replying to Flat 4x4 - I just spotted it while re-reading

Quote "For 5K (or more) less you can have a new car that performs around the level of a WRX, a bargain."

I did the maths on this earlier in the thread - the most you'll save is 4 grand - vRS @ £15300 + £500 chipping gives you £4200 saving over a WRX, but for that you'll have a FWD car that (according to reviews) can have trouble putting down 180BHP, never mind 220.

In the case of the 4x4 (estate only I believe) it's much less of a saving - £16400 + £500 chipping, plus suspension/brake upgrades, say £800 going on the Skoda FAQs? That gives you a £2300 saving over a WRX.

Both savings are certainly a chunk of change, but in both cases you've got an aftermarket modified car, with a compromised warranty and with reduced (in the first 3 years certainly) residuals.... unless you're going to cover up the fact it's been modified. And (going on the web-site Flat 4x4 has been kind enough to supply) it's still not as quick.

Quote "As for the perceived badge snobbery I think you'll find that those in the "know" and many professional types regard the Skoda marque as far more credible. The people who hold Subaru in esteem as a marque tend to be folk from blue collar backgrounds, burberry cap wearers etc."

I'm not sure why you say "blue collar backgrounds" as if that's a bad thing? Surely not snobbery on a Subaru forum You certainly can't doubt the Impreza's popularity with "white collar professional types" though - the number of IT people with Imprezas is a running joke here. As a professional (with a shiny white collar ) working regularly with solicitors and other professional types I have to say they're exactly the sort who will succumb to irrational badge snobbery. You probably won't find too many Scoobs in solicitor's carparks, but I guarantee you'll find more than Skodas.

Quote: "I personally don't care about the perceived image of the manufacturer of the car I buy, thus why I bought an Impreza in the first place and why I'll probably end up with a Skoda next. I just think it's pretty funny that some people are deluding themselves about where Subaru is positioned in peoples minds."

I don't either, particularly. What I will say though is that my last 3 years of Scoob ownership my car has drawn infinately more praise and positive attention from people, as much from the partners, MDs and managers I come into contact with as from kids on the street and people in gas stations, than I had in the previous 10 years of Audi/BMW ownership - pretty annoying when you're talking cars at twice the price (if you're that sort of person ).

And personally, I find people who come on here going on about owners being up their own ***** pretty funny - in my experience it's people who don't have Scoobs that most overestimate their capabilities.

Deano

*Reposted after my previous post disappeared? Hope I didn't post anything to cause it to be deleted? *

Slightly Nippy Person

Going back to the rallying theme, stick stig blomquist in the rally of GB and even Subarus techno super 4wd is no match in the snow - yep lack of grip and a 2wd skoda 1600 can beat a subaru wrc mmm who needs classes

You wouldn't catch me driving a Skoda! (Will your Skoob do over 175?)

Flat 4x4

Deano

Quick reply, not much time.
I was comparing a 1 yr or 2yr old WRX wagon with a newer 4x4, which is exactly the choice that faced me.

Believe me - I saved £5500 including the remap by buying a 1yr old 4x4 Turbo estate (some hatches still around) rather than a 51 reg WRX wagon. Considering my trade value of my Impreza of £8000 at the time (Subaru/Skoda dealers offered the same), I saved a fortune.

Steve vRS

End of the day it's all down to personnal choice and to which car suits your circumstances and priorities.

I think though that the Skoda now deserves to be mentioned as a credible alternative to other mainstream cars, especially as it's a good deal less expensive.

Steve

Beemer_Deano

Flat 4x4, it's really not a case of not believing you - my last post was specifically in response to Nacro's statement "For 5K (or more) less you can have a new car that performs around the level of a WRX, a bargain." rather than anything you'd said. It's not that I don't believe you - new for new it's not that clear cut. Sorry for any confusion.

Nacro, Quote - "The warranty remains intact as far I understand, although I imagine this varies depending on dealer."
The Skoda FAQs (an excellent site BTW) say different - basically, it points out that Skoda will not authorise any chip and may start looking for modifications when servicing the car. It goes on to conclude that you shouldn't mod it if you're not prepared to pay if it goes wrong.

Quote: As for blue collar background I was just pointing out that this group seems to be the type who aspire to Impreza ownership. IT Professional???? An oxymoron. I used to work in that field myself.
Dare I say then perhaps you shouldn't judge the whole IT industry on your experience? Octavias are very popular as taxis here, but that doesn't mean they're any less of a car (probably the opposite in fact) or that their owners are any less intelligent because of their occupation. I don't see the need for your blue/white collar distinction to be honest.

Quote: "edited to add they did do a 4x4 saloon."

Sorry, you're quite correct. Only the 4x4 estate is listed in Skoda's current pricelist, but I have found a magazine review of a 150BHP 4x4 hatch @£15,500

Thanks for your replies both

Deano

NACRO

re the blue/white collar distinction- I didn't bring it up at all as I see it as irrelevant. It was just mentioned because some people started talking about the perception of the 2 marques by the public at large. Personally I think the Impreza in particular has a very downmarket and undesireable image, however that doesn't matter to me in the slightest so I got one.

As for the IT industry- a bigger bunch of shysters you would be hard pressed to find at a con mans convention. That goes across the board and I have a great deal of experience from both sides of the coin. "Professional" is a term that should be applied to a very small number of those in the industry.

day tripper

What is with all this soft talk? I reckon we should have a showdown, briskoda vs scoobynet? Santa pod?

Question. a 97 wrx, whats the standard power, 0-60 and top speed, also what would ti be if it was chipped, had an induction kit, full exhaust system uprated?

Steve vRS

OK

The scoobs would win the drag races but the Octavias would get a better MPG driving home

Steve

stuttgart_boy

"scoobs turn heads."

LOL... the only heads a scoob turns are those of spotty 15 year old boys in baseball caps... oh, and perhaps the school girl slappa's sat outside MacDonalds too... but they'll soon grow out of it.

vindaloo

I haven't read all 7 pages worth but here's my 2pence.

Do all scoobs really have an image problem? Saloons with gold wheels and a FO rear spoiler maybe. These cars have a strong image and attract strong opinions. Wagons attract less strong views.

Compare the Impreza Wagon with the Skoda 4x4 and they're both relatively conservative, fast, safe estate cars.

IMO the vRS is aimed at a different segment. It leans towards efficiency on the motorway and lesser running costs, whilst the Impreza offers greater performance and leans towards A/B road bashes.

Vindaloo.

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

Clarkson on Top Gear reckons that Skodas won't be posh enough to drive down 1st class lanes in London! Nuff said.

F

Flat 4x4

Doesn't think much of the Bentley either and Simon Cowell can drive faster than him on a track.

More than enough said.

IANO C

im sorry but when someone says to yu "what yu drive?"
yu say a skoda they say "oh"
wheras subaru ususally people go "give us a drive or wow nice car"
scoobies rule
skodas are *fart sounds*

ianc

Correct, they say "oh"

"oh, they're supposed to be really good now, what are they like, are you pleased with it etc etc"

Never had a bad word.

IANO C - are you a clone of me? Cool!

</flattered>

Supercue

iTrader: (1)

My tuppence worth

Having done a fair few laps with a couple of the Skoda boys Jon and Paul at the ring, they do shift and handle quite well. However, could I live with a Skoda day in day out errrr no way. Sorry John, Paul & any other Skoda owners but I have a MY03 WRX SL + PPP. The interior of my Scoob is leather clad and overall much better than the Skoda. There are no annoying rattles/squeeks, it goes like stink and sticks to the road like **** to a blanket. It may need some stiffer springs for the track days but is a joy to be in every day.
Re-sale I bet my Scoob has a far easier chance of re-sale than the Skoda and at the right money

IMHO the bottom line is that Skoda since the VAG buyout have come a long way but are still playing catch up to the Scoob. You pays your money and takes your choice. For me the Scoob wins hands down every day

John & Paul: I've zipped up the flame suit LOL