STi8 PPP v BMW 330 Ci Sport
09 November 2003, 10:06 PM
#31
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If you read the topic heading, this thread is about PPP STI's.
Not 265 euro spec or 280 Jap spec.
I've seen a few group tests including the STI 8 PPP and E46 M3 and I'm not convinced.... especially if you introduce those things called "corners".
Speed in a straight line is one thing, but......
You cannae beat a Scooby in the twisties! lol
Sorry guys!
couldn't resist
Not 265 euro spec or 280 Jap spec.
I've seen a few group tests including the STI 8 PPP and E46 M3 and I'm not convinced.... especially if you introduce those things called "corners".
Speed in a straight line is one thing, but......
You cannae beat a Scooby in the twisties! lol
Sorry guys!
couldn't resist
10 November 2003, 12:40 AM
#32
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I still maintain a key indicator is the cars price along with other aspects of what you wish the car to do, but PRICE is always there. My factors are:-
1. Grin factor
2. Performance
3. Price
using these indicators the BMW 330 Ci comes into that bracket and I have one, its just not as good as the Scoob!
the M3 does not come into it because I can't afford one simple!
1. Grin factor
2. Performance
3. Price
using these indicators the BMW 330 Ci comes into that bracket and I have one, its just not as good as the Scoob!
the M3 does not come into it because I can't afford one simple!
10 November 2003, 09:36 AM
#33
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in most cases you have to favor the M3
Rally slag all the way!
10 November 2003, 11:06 AM
#34
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mmmmmm ive got a good jap race clip with a std evo gsr 7 and 5 other cars, another evo, e46 m3 smg, e46 m3 manual, ferrari 360 f1 shift, ferrari 360 manual, the std evo was the outright winner and the m3 and ferrari paddle shift came last...the evo was standard and I know its not the sti8 ppp but the evo is of lower power think 280bhp and still killed the m3 manual on a race track in the dry. the m3 may be fast but is very over rated.
Darren
Darren
10 November 2003, 12:45 PM
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Brun ill get it uploaded when I get home its been down loaded off the kazza website and there is quite afew of them from www.v-tec.com I think that is the web site but will take a look when I finish later.
Darren
Darren
10 November 2003, 02:17 PM
#38
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1 I'm not bull ****ing and 2 I can drive... very well thanks! thanks to 2years clubman’s rallying and lots of Karting! And 3 I've had a BM and a Scoob and if you had some intelligence then you would have read the thread like I intended it! i.e. I don't dispute the M3 is quick... it is READ IT... almost identical 1/4 mile times + 300 BHP not 280 & 300 BHP 1470KG against 343 and 1577kg I won't go into math as you probably didn't do that...
I monstered "Perhaps a bad term" the M3 for one simple reason! Mid corner grip, theirs no way on a greasy road you can nail the M3 and that's exactly what happened. Nothing to do with performance simply the fact I got on the gas way earlier than the M3... The BM would just bog down in electronic heaven once the TC got hold of it! And if it wasn't on then you would have to be very brave on a greasy road, very brave indeed. I certainly couldn’t do it on a greasy road and I can drift a RWD car well.
Image! I never got out of any junction in the BM! It just didn't happen; never let back in a line of traffic either and that’s being very nice not queue jumping or pushing in; never have a problem in the Scoob though...
I’d have a M3 any day it’s a proper nice car that wasn’t he point though!
[Edited by Dazza's-STi - 11/10/2003 3:19:42 PM]
[Edited by Dazza's-STi - 11/10/2003 3:52:03 PM]
I monstered "Perhaps a bad term" the M3 for one simple reason! Mid corner grip, theirs no way on a greasy road you can nail the M3 and that's exactly what happened. Nothing to do with performance simply the fact I got on the gas way earlier than the M3... The BM would just bog down in electronic heaven once the TC got hold of it! And if it wasn't on then you would have to be very brave on a greasy road, very brave indeed. I certainly couldn’t do it on a greasy road and I can drift a RWD car well.
Image! I never got out of any junction in the BM! It just didn't happen; never let back in a line of traffic either and that’s being very nice not queue jumping or pushing in; never have a problem in the Scoob though...
I’d have a M3 any day it’s a proper nice car that wasn’t he point though!
[Edited by Dazza's-STi - 11/10/2003 3:19:42 PM]
[Edited by Dazza's-STi - 11/10/2003 3:52:03 PM]
10 November 2003, 03:29 PM
#39
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Oooooooohhhhhh! Calm down, take deep breaths.
Try a commer or a full stop now and then, It may make your posts more understandable to us less intellectually gifted souls.
Yes I think your post was bullplop, as is many people's accounts of races that never happened.
But that's part of the comic appeal of this board. It just wouldn't be ScoobyNet without threads like; "I smoked a McLaren F1 in my 1.6 GL" or "does your dog like your scoob?".
Try a commer or a full stop now and then, It may make your posts more understandable to us less intellectually gifted souls.
Yes I think your post was bullplop, as is many people's accounts of races that never happened.
But that's part of the comic appeal of this board. It just wouldn't be ScoobyNet without threads like; "I smoked a McLaren F1 in my 1.6 GL" or "does your dog like your scoob?".
10 November 2003, 04:01 PM
#40
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Hope i don't offend with this post!!!!
Am the proud owner of a classic scooby at the mo. which i'm still trying to get used as you'll ave seen on me handling posts!!
How would the STI8 PPP fare against the Evo VI ?? Am a fan of the evo's but they are well out of my price range even at four years old but would it be worth me savin up????!!!
Love the look of the STI8 though as well as the EVO VI GSR.
Am the proud owner of a classic scooby at the mo. which i'm still trying to get used as you'll ave seen on me handling posts!!
How would the STI8 PPP fare against the Evo VI ?? Am a fan of the evo's but they are well out of my price range even at four years old but would it be worth me savin up????!!!
Love the look of the STI8 though as well as the EVO VI GSR.
10 November 2003, 05:55 PM
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We can solve this easily, can't we? Whose got an STi8 PPP 305HP and who is willing to race on the motorway (from stand still) out of this people with an M3? I will do the job and look for an M3 and an M5 if you'd like
11 November 2003, 12:28 AM
#42
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Am a fan of the evo's but they are well out of my price range even at four years old but would it be worth me savin up????!!!
11 November 2003, 12:36 AM
#43
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Sorry you blokes need to get out more often !!!! need to polish the bonnet a little more over bottle of wine this tends to get full lubication this leads to full spray with boost,:d this keeps them happy so can spend more on mods lol
11 November 2003, 08:56 AM
#44
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and if BMW don't want to label a car as a driver's car and a sports car then don't call them :-
1. the utlimate driving machine
and
2. Sport LOL!!
1. the utlimate driving machine
and
2. Sport LOL!!
Well said that man - at last someone else who sees the stupidity in the BMW marketing machine.
Regards,
tiggers.
11 November 2003, 09:45 AM
#45
Other thing worth remembering, is that although the scoob has lag against it, once on boost, the torque curve is much fatter than the M3s high revving NA engine.
So while the M3 has a peak power advantage, I wonder how much of that it still has at say 5000rpm, just after a gear change (or whatever the RPM happens to be).
Paul
So while the M3 has a peak power advantage, I wonder how much of that it still has at say 5000rpm, just after a gear change (or whatever the RPM happens to be).
Paul
11 November 2003, 11:47 AM
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talizman
A M plate E36 M3 would differ in power to a R plate E36 M3 (EVO) as would this to a E46 M3.
I have driven an E46 M3, I have owned two BMW's and I currently drive a STI Type R with 310bhp. I have also driven a STI8 PPP.
From my experience with run in's with M3's I would say that my Type R is as fast as an E46 M3, there is nothing in it.
When I drove the STI8 PPP I was a little dissapointed, it was slower than my Type R. This is what has lead me to believe that a STI8 PPP would be a little slower than an E46 M3.
As for people's attitudes to BMW's, I understand that better than most having owned two for four years. My first was a 98 325 Coupe. In all the time I owned the car I never noticed any negative reaction to the car, quite the opposite.
However my last BMW was a 98 328 Convertible and there was a definite negative reaction, especially from blokes. I would say 60% of people looked at you like you were a w4nker, most of these being blokes. The other 40% looked and admired, especially women.
There is no way in this world does a scoob have the same appeal to the opposite sex as a convertible BMW, there's just no way, I don't care what wheels you have on it.
Perhaps it's you talizman? It may be that you are a major stud!
Owning a convertible BMW gives you a good insight into the small minds of those jealous people who, if truthful, would chop off there left ****** to own one.
[Edited by Mad Gypsy - 11/11/2003 11:50:53 AM]
A M plate E36 M3 would differ in power to a R plate E36 M3 (EVO) as would this to a E46 M3.
I have driven an E46 M3, I have owned two BMW's and I currently drive a STI Type R with 310bhp. I have also driven a STI8 PPP.
From my experience with run in's with M3's I would say that my Type R is as fast as an E46 M3, there is nothing in it.
When I drove the STI8 PPP I was a little dissapointed, it was slower than my Type R. This is what has lead me to believe that a STI8 PPP would be a little slower than an E46 M3.
As for people's attitudes to BMW's, I understand that better than most having owned two for four years. My first was a 98 325 Coupe. In all the time I owned the car I never noticed any negative reaction to the car, quite the opposite.
However my last BMW was a 98 328 Convertible and there was a definite negative reaction, especially from blokes. I would say 60% of people looked at you like you were a w4nker, most of these being blokes. The other 40% looked and admired, especially women.
There is no way in this world does a scoob have the same appeal to the opposite sex as a convertible BMW, there's just no way, I don't care what wheels you have on it.
Perhaps it's you talizman? It may be that you are a major stud!
Owning a convertible BMW gives you a good insight into the small minds of those jealous people who, if truthful, would chop off there left ****** to own one.
[Edited by Mad Gypsy - 11/11/2003 11:50:53 AM]
11 November 2003, 11:59 AM
#48
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Owning a convertible BMW gives you a good insight into the small minds of those jealous people who, if truthful, would chop off there left ****** to own one.
tiggers.
11 November 2003, 01:10 PM
#49
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M3
4900 RPM 251 BHP
7900 RPM 343 BHP
With M3's gearing typically (depending on the gear) it would drop back to just over 6000 RPM after a 7900 RPM gearchange, so probably about 290 BHP. So by keeping it on the boil you are usually at 85% of max power after each gearchange, with no lag and no AWD losses if you had SMG changes you could be averaging 92% of peak power, or 315 BHP approx?
Gives quite an area under the curve whichever way you look at it for a bog standard car.
[Edited by john banks - 11/11/2003 1:13:43 PM]
4900 RPM 251 BHP
7900 RPM 343 BHP
With M3's gearing typically (depending on the gear) it would drop back to just over 6000 RPM after a 7900 RPM gearchange, so probably about 290 BHP. So by keeping it on the boil you are usually at 85% of max power after each gearchange, with no lag and no AWD losses if you had SMG changes you could be averaging 92% of peak power, or 315 BHP approx?
Gives quite an area under the curve whichever way you look at it for a bog standard car.
[Edited by john banks - 11/11/2003 1:13:43 PM]
11 November 2003, 02:20 PM
#50
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There is no way in this world does a scoob have the same appeal to the opposite sex as a convertible BMW, there's just no way, I don't care what wheels you have on it
11 November 2003, 02:48 PM
#51
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LOL at akshay67! If she's in the passanger seat the job is done.
Besides, With excpeption to excitable school girls, I don't know any women who would be attracted to you by being frightened out of there wits while you drive your scoob like a lunatic lol.
Four wheel drifts don't do it for most girls!
Besides, With excpeption to excitable school girls, I don't know any women who would be attracted to you by being frightened out of there wits while you drive your scoob like a lunatic lol.
Four wheel drifts don't do it for most girls!
11 November 2003, 03:38 PM
#52
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Does anyone on this board drive their Scooby because of its great performace at a reasonable price or are most of you concerned with how big your D**k looks against Audi, EVO, Cossie, BMW and Ferrari drivers. I for one dont give 2 hoots if a BMW M3458 doozie watsit can beat me around a Mcdonalds carpark in reverse. I enjoy the experience of being able to drive a car I choose to drive, and if someone thinks I look like a tosser in my Farmers Ferrari then **** em, I dont care.
There are always going to be faster cars than ours and I really dont see the point in trying to prove all this boy racer stuff. Leave it to the fast and furious movies and drive your car to enjoy it, not to try and prove something no-one cares about anyway.
There are always going to be faster cars than ours and I really dont see the point in trying to prove all this boy racer stuff. Leave it to the fast and furious movies and drive your car to enjoy it, not to try and prove something no-one cares about anyway.
11 November 2003, 03:53 PM
#53
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swaussie,
I have to say, though I have let myself get drawn into this thread, your post is about the most sensible thing I've read on here in a while.
Having said that, I had a race with a BMW M3458 doozie wastsit the other day and completely monstered it! I actually did a somersault over one roundabout........honest!
I have to say, though I have let myself get drawn into this thread, your post is about the most sensible thing I've read on here in a while.
Having said that, I had a race with a BMW M3458 doozie wastsit the other day and completely monstered it! I actually did a somersault over one roundabout........honest!
11 November 2003, 04:03 PM
#54
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swaussie,
You've hit the nail on the preverbial head. It doesn't matter what car you own, provided you have bought it for reasons you believe are right, and enjoy owning it.
Matt
You've hit the nail on the preverbial head. It doesn't matter what car you own, provided you have bought it for reasons you believe are right, and enjoy owning it.
Matt
11 November 2003, 04:07 PM
#55
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well said swaussie...
When you get to that kind of performance thier is very lttle in it... e.g. WRX against STI only a couple of lengths at after 200mtrs not much... The whole thing is that you enjoy driving what you've chosen as your ride. Not being boy racer about it comes with experience and age I think, for example you have a bit of a challenge from boy in his Saxo and if you leave it standing they look at you like you've done them an injury.
But if you get a couple of guys who enjoy thier motoring and love of cars regardless of what type of car it is then the outcome is totally different! I tried to catch a TVR at the end of summer over one of my Fav, B roads, he was pulling away on the long bits and I caught him on the twists, was just loving listening to the TVR @ full chat. As we pulled up at T juction we both had grins from ear to ear. Was just good to see someone who was responcible "slowed to 30 througha village" and enjoed having the car it was never going to be personal just fun. Nothing to do with Boy racer image!
The Saubaru is a quck car but in the scheme of things not blistering, not when a Merc SL get to 100 4 seconds quicker! TVR 5 and porsche 5.
Personaly I just enjoy having a fast good handleing car that on it day when your on your fav road puts a massive grin on ya face!
And from reading Scoobynet so do a good majority of the people on here!
When you get to that kind of performance thier is very lttle in it... e.g. WRX against STI only a couple of lengths at after 200mtrs not much... The whole thing is that you enjoy driving what you've chosen as your ride. Not being boy racer about it comes with experience and age I think, for example you have a bit of a challenge from boy in his Saxo and if you leave it standing they look at you like you've done them an injury.
But if you get a couple of guys who enjoy thier motoring and love of cars regardless of what type of car it is then the outcome is totally different! I tried to catch a TVR at the end of summer over one of my Fav, B roads, he was pulling away on the long bits and I caught him on the twists, was just loving listening to the TVR @ full chat. As we pulled up at T juction we both had grins from ear to ear. Was just good to see someone who was responcible "slowed to 30 througha village" and enjoed having the car it was never going to be personal just fun. Nothing to do with Boy racer image!
The Saubaru is a quck car but in the scheme of things not blistering, not when a Merc SL get to 100 4 seconds quicker! TVR 5 and porsche 5.
Personaly I just enjoy having a fast good handleing car that on it day when your on your fav road puts a massive grin on ya face!
And from reading Scoobynet so do a good majority of the people on here!
11 November 2003, 04:28 PM
#56
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Mad Gypsy you fool
Dazza you are spot on. There is nothing better then being out for a drive enjoying your car and finding someone else doing the same. Whether you win or not comes a long way behind enjoying the thrill of late breaking, the smell of clutch and the exhiliration of driving YOUR pride and joy, be it a Beemer or a Beetle.
I think the most important thing to remember if you are going to race is to respect other drivers and play it safe.
We had this week in Switzerland a total idiot with his wife and 4 kids in the car race someone else. He ran head on into an oncoming driver killing himself and injuring 7 others VERY badly.
Not sure what he proved, just glad it wasnt me or my girlfried driving home from work in the other direction....
Dazza you are spot on. There is nothing better then being out for a drive enjoying your car and finding someone else doing the same. Whether you win or not comes a long way behind enjoying the thrill of late breaking, the smell of clutch and the exhiliration of driving YOUR pride and joy, be it a Beemer or a Beetle.
I think the most important thing to remember if you are going to race is to respect other drivers and play it safe.
We had this week in Switzerland a total idiot with his wife and 4 kids in the car race someone else. He ran head on into an oncoming driver killing himself and injuring 7 others VERY badly.
Not sure what he proved, just glad it wasnt me or my girlfried driving home from work in the other direction....
11 November 2003, 11:39 PM
#57
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With regards to whether the Type R is quicker than the STI 8 PPP, I can't say as I have never driven or been in a Type R.
I have however driven 2 x P1's whilst looking for my new car, and I don't imagine there is that much difference between one of these and an "R". I have also been "fortunate enough" to have demo drives in the passenger seat of both P1 and STI 8 by a pretty competent driver, and the only conclusions I could draw were that the STI 8 seemed quicker.
With regards to the image thing, it all comes down to presonal opinion, but I know how many necks my car strains on a daily basis. Maybe it is 'cos of me after all!
An E36 convertible that you cite, does not turn heads anywhere near as much as an STI 8, or pretty much any other Scoob for that matter.
They (E36 convertibles) have become a very common sight on the roads, and you can see scores of them each day, making them very un-special indeed. Basically boring and bland cars.
I personally, have only ever seen a handful of STI 8's on the road, which makes them unusual and head-turning.
And before you ask, I don't live in the middle of nowhere! I live and work in Glasgow City Centre.
You have to drive the car on a daily basis to appreciate the number of folk that stop, stare and comment on the car, men, women and children!
Agreed, a BMW cab, may attract women, but, personally, not the sort of women I'd want to attract!
In my experience, most BMW drivers experience negative reactions from others for one reason or another. A few guys I work with drive BM's and they comment on how no-one is ever courteous to them, but when driving other cars, they get let out of junctions etc etc.
A certain image is associated with BMW drivers and it is entirely brought on by themselves. Unfortunate but true.
[Edited by talizman - 11/11/2003 11:43:15 PM]
I have however driven 2 x P1's whilst looking for my new car, and I don't imagine there is that much difference between one of these and an "R". I have also been "fortunate enough" to have demo drives in the passenger seat of both P1 and STI 8 by a pretty competent driver, and the only conclusions I could draw were that the STI 8 seemed quicker.
With regards to the image thing, it all comes down to presonal opinion, but I know how many necks my car strains on a daily basis. Maybe it is 'cos of me after all!
An E36 convertible that you cite, does not turn heads anywhere near as much as an STI 8, or pretty much any other Scoob for that matter.
They (E36 convertibles) have become a very common sight on the roads, and you can see scores of them each day, making them very un-special indeed. Basically boring and bland cars.
I personally, have only ever seen a handful of STI 8's on the road, which makes them unusual and head-turning.
And before you ask, I don't live in the middle of nowhere! I live and work in Glasgow City Centre.
There is no way in this world does a scoob have the same appeal to the opposite sex as a convertible BMW
Agreed, a BMW cab, may attract women, but, personally, not the sort of women I'd want to attract!
In my experience, most BMW drivers experience negative reactions from others for one reason or another. A few guys I work with drive BM's and they comment on how no-one is ever courteous to them, but when driving other cars, they get let out of junctions etc etc.
A certain image is associated with BMW drivers and it is entirely brought on by themselves. Unfortunate but true.
[Edited by talizman - 11/11/2003 11:43:15 PM]
12 November 2003, 10:15 AM
#59
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Do you mean in the ring or on the track?
Unfortunately, I won't be at Wales as I'm going under the knife to have my dodgy shoulder sorted.... 5 dislocations tends to mess shoulders up somewhat!
Anyway, I couldn't race you, as I'd feel partly responsible when you blow your engine up! (again!)
Unfortunately, I won't be at Wales as I'm going under the knife to have my dodgy shoulder sorted.... 5 dislocations tends to mess shoulders up somewhat!
Anyway, I couldn't race you, as I'd feel partly responsible when you blow your engine up! (again!)
12 November 2003, 10:46 AM
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Quote "I laugh my **** off at some of the posts on here"
This contribution more than any other has given the Milk Marketing Board some serious cause for concern!
Pull the udder one - the words pot and kettle come to mind!
Oh and if driving a beemer really has that sort of impact then may I suggest that you carry spare elastic in your glove compartment, so that next time your grannies knickers twang, you are fully prepared!
Dib Dib Dib
This contribution more than any other has given the Milk Marketing Board some serious cause for concern!
Pull the udder one - the words pot and kettle come to mind!
Oh and if driving a beemer really has that sort of impact then may I suggest that you carry spare elastic in your glove compartment, so that next time your grannies knickers twang, you are fully prepared!
Dib Dib Dib