imlach

Safest solution to me seems to be to get your kids to walk to school in groups. Ever heard of gangs of paedophiles jumping out of transit vans and grabbing 3-4 kids at a time? I've not heard of any, but I'm sure it's perhaps feasible.

We certainly walked to school in a "gang". That was half the fun. Safety in numbers and all that.

The car is not king, and your kids futures are being threatened by the continual abuse of scarce oil resources.....oil will be gone in the coming decades.....

imlach

Guess there won't be any replies on here until well after 9am - cos they're ALL on the school run - DOH!

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

I don't, personally agree with the "school run", as I think most kids these days need the exercise, and the independence that walking to school gives them.
My two have always walked to school, a distance of over 2 miles each way.

However: I certainly respect other parents wishes in this case. If you have kids, they are the single biggest responsibility you're likely to have, and their well-being is paramount. If you believe they are safer with you, then so be it.:

This week I HAVE been doing a school run in both directions, as my youngest sprained his knee playing rugby, and is on crutches.

I have been UTTERLY appalled at the standard of driving, the stupidity, and the outright selfishness of other drivers on the same run, and I have to say that about 90% of the worst offenders are women.

If plod want some easy points/fines, they just need to be near a local school, especially when it's raining.[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

On a slightly different tack, lots of school runs are caused by parents now having more choice over their child's school. In my day, you went to the local, even if you had to bike two miles to a grammar instead of the nearest school. Now, many kids cross town to get to a "decent" school, and with public transport as poor as it is, especially outside London, how else do they get there? "Crossing" my town, for instance, would take two bus journeys, each £1, in each direction, and involve going into town, and back out on another route[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

Old man mode ON:
in my day, I never saw anyone come to school in a car. Even some of the teachers cycled. We all either walked, cycled or came on a bus....and those were only the kids from outlying villages who had no secondary school nearer.
Old man mode OFF.:

mwp

just got back from walking my 7yr old daughter to school. my 11 yr old walked himself and my 16yr old got the bus.

10/10 for class swot ???

lightning101

Walking to and from school was the best part of the day - always a good fight after school to watch or partake in. Your walking home mates were always your long term mates and you could talk to them about stuff that you wouldn't if you got in a car with your mum. I think the only kids that got picked up from my school were the ones that got bullied (which is a bit sad). I walked two and a half miles to school every day and enjoyed it, there were buses every 10 minutes but nobody used them. Think there is ten times the media out there now rather than ten times more dangerous place to live.

AudiMan

I have been monitoring this thread just to see which way it is turning, there seems to be a number of issues, all lots of poeple have very differing views, even me !
Personally I am also against the "school run", but everybody's circumstances are different.
I drop my kids off at school for 2 reasons, 1. the road they have to walk on is very dangerous on a morning with people using it as a rat run to get to the M3 (28 accidents in the last 11 months - factual statistics). 2. I have to go past the school to get to work.
My wife walks and picks the children up then walks home (the road is not busy at this time).
I agree there are loads of lazy people parked up in there 53 reg 4x4's (just posing and doing a bit of one upmanship) and yes they get there 20 minutes early just to be able to park.
My journey to school at the age of 8 was a 5 mile bus trip followed by a 2 mile walk.. never did me any harm (I was approached once by a man who I now recognise as a danger - childhood innocense !!).
Imlach,
You highlight my text, which again are just my thoughts, maybe the media does hype things up, I think my point was vague in the fact that the penalties being given to convicted child mollesters do not fit the crimes. Our society (knowingly or not) seems to allow too many of these people to reoffend.
As for the yorkshire ripper, well he lives just down the road from me in Broadmore !!!, at about £1500 per week which you and I pay for !, so does anyone think he will ever be safe back in society again ?
Again these are just MY opinions, but I also respect other peoples.

Gridlock Mikey

When I were a lad!

We used to congregate at various bus stops, the school bus arrived, we got on it, it went to the school bus park, we got off it and went to school.
After school we found our bus, we got on it, it took us to the bus stop, dropped us off, we went home.

It was flawless, maybe 15 dedicated buses (Not drafted double deckers and the like) followed pre set routes around the various estates at pre determined times. The furthest ANY kid had to walk was probably 100m to a designated bus stop. The bus driver was always the same guy as was the bus monitor (Someones mum) and they would know instantly if someone was missing. If no one knew of the whereabouts ofthe missing individual, the monitor would go and knock on the door and make sure there was a proper reason for not getting on the bus. Truancy was basically unheard of! As were stories of abduction, murder, kiddy feeling etc.

I can never remember any of my schools being snided with cars, 4x4's,MPV's and the like.

Damn efficient those Army folk

Mikey <Never wrapped in cotton wool>

Brendan Hughes

Pardon me, but didn't the Yorkshire Ripper prey on prostitutes? Naff all to do with the school run discussion, unless you're talking about some rather dodgy 16 yr olds...

I got approached by some squinting wizened 70 yr old when I was about 9 who asked if I wanted to join his football team, if so meet him in the park next Saturday. So Mum took me to the park (it was a long way away) and we walked around, but we didn't see him. I remember being quite disappointed, as I wanted to join a football team. I also have vivid recollections of a newspaper report of a schoolgirl having her head smashed in with a brick, I suppose after some sort of abduction, and I think there was a bin liner somewhere in the story too. (This would be late 70s for anyone remotely interested). Gave me nightmares occasionally, but the funny thing was my young mind confused the headline "MANIAC" with the word "mechanic", so for years afterwards I would look warily at any mechanics...

...still went to school under my own steam though!

Crapaud62

I wish I could avoid taking my two sons to school but I have no choice. 12 miles to school and we are not on a bus route. Best the council could manage is for me to drive them half way and then pay £480 per year for them to be bussed the rest of the way.

We always make sure we plan other trips around the school run but it takes over an hour out of every day. Part of the fun of having kids. Today is worse as one son finishes at 3.30 pm whereas the teenager won't be let out until 4.30pm as he has detention. Only 18 months until he gets a moped and can make his own way.

Scooby96

This site shows quite an increase in crime since 1991:

http://www.police999.com/stats/crime2002-08.html

[Edited by Scooby96 - 11/19/2003 11:30:48 AM]

Leslie

I think Davegtt has a reasonable point. As a child I used to find my own way to school which was a fair distance and a longish bus ride and walk as well. I used to go off across fields etc to go fishing too,often a long walk to meet friends at the other end. In all my childhood, I was approached by three pervs who were actually pretty frightened in case they were caught, their attitude betrayed that. One was outside Stanley Gibbons stamps in Kingston on Thames and he offered to buy me some stamps if I went along to a public lavatory with him. Another sat next to me in a bus with the heavy breathing and close contact bit when he sat down, and the other wanted to tell a group of us what frogs got up to in the mating season! They all melted away rapidly when they found out they were not wanted around. I was so innocent that I had no idea what they wanted from me but I realised well enough instinctively that it was not good anyway.

These days, pervs seem to be much more prepared to carry on with their evil desires and are quite prepared as we see to abduct children and to kill them as well. People now are not taught self control of their feelings or much discipline and seem to feel that they are entitled to do just what they want regardless of the effect on others. This is the great danger I think and even though there may well be the same number of twisted people around, these days they mey be more prepared to carry out their crimes than before.

I don't blame people for the concern for their children's safety, and can understand why the school run exists now. This is the age of the car for all, not like previous times. I agree that is causes a lot of traffic problems. I can only think that the school bus should be resurrected for all schools with denoted pick up points to avoid the need to use private cars. No reason why parents can't contribute to the cost of that, like we used too when I was going to school.

Les

imlach

Leslie - "this is the age of the car for all".

The car is not a right, it is a privilege. Our current abuse of the car is killing the planet, and abusing scarce resources that have taken millions of years to produce......

People just don't care about tmmrw, and only care about today. As parents, I would have thought you'd care about your offspring (and theirs ad infinitum).

imlach

I would also add, that examples are being quoted of pervs.

I imagine there are the same number of pervs around today - being a perv is not something you "learn" off the internet, so how can the %-age in society be greater/less than 50 years ago.

Scoobychick

iTrader: (1)

There's a junior and an infants school near my house and a lot of the local kids go to it. It's about a 300 metre walk along a direct and open path and short alley that goes nowhere near the road, just past front gardens, an ideal and safe walk then for mums/dads and kids then.

I've on occasion watched my neighbours, who are all friends and whose kids all know and play with each other outside in the road(!) get in separate cars and drive their own kids to school, all within minutes of each other then all drive back again. WTF is that all about?? It's further to drive than it is to walk

It's absolute chaos at the end of my road during the scrummy run, with some of the worst parking I've ever seen (yes mainly by 4x4's). I usually go the very long way round at these times just to avoid it all

When I was a van driver I'd be out on the road all day every day and noticed that driving standards around me generally dropped considerably to coincide with school opening/closing hours, coincidence or what?

A friend of mine who has kids says that the scrummy run is very competitive and that you have to have your hair & make-up done and make sure you're wearing the right clothes when you drop/pick the kids off/up. Perhaps the reason all these women drive is because they haven't had time to fix their 'look' and don't want to run the risk of being seen out in public by the other scrummies?


[Edited by scoobychick - 11/19/2003 12:04:47 PM]

Franx

I used to walk to the station, catch the train, and walk at the other end to school, & nothing happened to me at all. This would take around an hour every morning & evening, and it really didn't bother me at all, from the ages of around 8 to 18, & a 10 mile trip.
Quite a large number of people used to catch the train/bus as well, and the stories of things going wrong were fairly non-existant, apart from the odd one, of kids from erm...scally schools taking the p!ss, having a go, & so on.
I left school in 2000 by the way, so that wasn't long ago. I don't see why people can't still do this kind of thing, rather than clog up the roads dropping off the kids. Fair enough, the roads are there to be used, but I can't believe that people actually enjoy doing the school run.
Improve the public transport, I say

Scooby96

For that very reason I dont mind one bit picking the kids up from school. Theres one woman who tarts herself up like a right slapper - apparently her husband has gone off sex and she's looking for some extra marital fun!!

Makes the traffic jams all worth while

Edited to say:

Looking only of course!!!

[Edited by Scooby96 - 11/19/2003 12:31:49 PM]

Scooby96

"I was approached by three pervs...."

Another damn good reason why I wont let my kids walk on their own. I'd like my kids to type on a bbs in 15/20 years time:

"I was never approached by a perv"

AudiMan

Leslie,
Some very valid points, well put, the deterant is not there to prevent these crimes, I'm not sure it ever was but I'm also sure these perverts used to get a much harder time than they do now.

Imlach,
Again, some things you say I totally agree with, our planet is vitally important (without it we are all short of somewhere to live !), I would not take my kids if I drove the other direction, I would walk to and from then drive on to work. (especially in my Scoob at 20mpg urban!).
The answer is the school bus, like they do in the USA (which I'm pretty sure is free or at least a nominal amount), they tried to implement one for my school, it worked out for me £4 per day to do less than a mile ! (really not economic). What I and some other parents have suggested is a parking fee for anyone stopping at the school (rather than just dropping off/picking up) for which there could be a drive thru area. This would stop the 4x4 posers (to a degree).
I also educate my children in not wasting valuable global resources, and the importance or recycling.

Ian..

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Crapaud62:I've got friends in a village near here in the same position as you.

Their 17 year old son has been commuting to college daily on a moped.
Two weeks ago, he went under a lorry, and was killed:

For God's sake, don't let yours out on a moped at peak times mate!

Alcazar

imlach

Leslie said :
These days, pervs seem to be much more prepared to carry on with their evil desires and are quite prepared as we see to abduct children and to kill them as well. People now are not taught self control of their feelings or much discipline and seem to feel that they are entitled to do just what they want regardless of the effect on others. This is the great danger I think and even though there may well be the same number of twisted people around, these days they mey be more prepared to carry out their crimes than before.


Absolute rubbish. You are saying crime is much more permissive these days, so more people kill & abduct!
Nonsense! People don't kill & abduct more cos it's easier!!
Piffle!

Scooby96

I do think the more relaxed the sentencing gets the more likely a person is to go that bit further!

Whats happened to 'Megans Law' - I had a look at an American website that listed all sex offenders whereabouts. If that was done in the UK I think alot of people would seee that THERE ARE kiddy pervs 'on every corner' (ie in every town, village etc).

imlach

In fact, could we go as far and say that pervs with access to child **** are less likely to offend as can satisfy themselves that way? If you take their access away, will they not prey on real kids?

Does reading a **** mag make you want to go out and sh&g anotgher woman?


[Edited by imlach - 11/19/2003 1:27:44 PM]

unclebuck

Exactly the point I made on page 2. These people are a bunch of hypocrites IMO.

UB

Dave P

First a funny story. A few years ago my kids went to a school about 400 yards up the road. We always walked them up, but one day it was pouring with rain so I decided to drive up. Anyway the first parking space I managed to find was....... MY DRIVE, so I had to walk and get them anyway.

Secondly, as an adult my own opinion is that the country is no more or less safe. We've had Fred West and the Moores murderers in times gone by. My own view is that news gets reported much quicker and freely these days. If you have a 24 hour news channel you have to fill it! News in Scotland today is news in England today, not so long ago by the time it got from one place to another it was old news.

Thirdly, around here (Kent and Sussex) there has been an initiative to promote walking buses. Whereby children go to designated pick up points and all walk to school together with a handful of children.

Fourthly, traffic is an issue, I believe it is a known fact that children are less able to judge traffic speed etc. So with the greater volume of traffic this is one of my major worries as a parent (the irony here is that most of the traffic build up at school times is Mums on the run)

Fifthly as a sensible parent I know I should let my children age 10 and 9, have more independence (I went youth hostelling with a mate age 12)but sadly this stupid irrational fear (conditioning) takes over.

Sad but true.

Dave

scoobynutta555

Imlach, I was just about to reply to that same comment from Leslie. Ill paste up a newspaper article from earlier in the post for the benefit of scaremongerers who possibly havent read/understood it.

“News headlines often give the impression of paedophiles or killers on every street corner, murdering every passing child. The official statistics present a much different picture. According to government figures only five children are murdered by strangers each year in England and Wales, on average. Most child homicides are in fact committed by the parents. Over the last 25 years there has been no increase in child murder by strangers. The overall murder rate (all ages) is the same now as it was in 1857 (roughly 13 per million of the population per year)”
The Independent, 25 Sept 1996

All this nonsense about this country being a worse place to live in regards to increases in paedophile activity and child murder. So far all I have seen from this point of view is 'IMO' and no statistical facts at all. It has been the case, is the case and will always be the case that paedophilia and child murder will more than likely be committed by very close family/relation/persons known well by the child rather than a man in a mac.

There is a perceived increase in such undesirable and abhorrent activities by strangers from media coverage, and the 'rose tinted glasses' effect. A possible exception to this argument is the use of the internet to 'groom' and view child ****. But even this isn’t enough of an excuse to be paranoid about a child to the point where you’ve not only distorted your own mindset, but have affected the childs experiences and outlook on the world. I’m not saying leave your kids to do anything they want, but sane and reasonable parenting should reflect the likelihood of harm, which % wise is not that high.