Diesels are they really money savers?
08 December 2003, 05:44 PM
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Steve,
Glad you've taken up the baton from me on the 330d thing. Phew! I was getting very tired of explaining the benefits of my 330d over my old STI5 TypeR V-ltd, but people can't see beyond the flat four warble, 20 mpg and stopping every 200 miles for juice.
I have saved over £200 this month in fuel cost alone. Won't mention the £40 in insurance. That's a reasonable pay rise Diesel is 74.9 at my local Shell and Optimax is 79.9. I've gone from 19mpg average on Optimax to 41mpg on diesel. So naturally I'm happy. 
I'm going nowhere any slower than before, but getting twice as far on the same 60 litres of juice. I've done just under 2000 miles and my first service is due in 16900 miles time. Luvverly! That would cost £130 if there was no maintenance package on the car. I call that money saving.
Matt
Glad you've taken up the baton from me on the 330d thing. Phew! I was getting very tired of explaining the benefits of my 330d over my old STI5 TypeR V-ltd, but people can't see beyond the flat four warble, 20 mpg and stopping every 200 miles for juice.
I have saved over £200 this month in fuel cost alone. Won't mention the £40 in insurance. That's a reasonable pay rise
Diesel is 74.9 at my local Shell and Optimax is 79.9. I've gone from 19mpg average on Optimax to 41mpg on diesel. So naturally I'm happy. I'm going nowhere any slower than before, but getting twice as far on the same 60 litres of juice.
I've done just under 2000 miles and my first service is due in 16900 miles time. Luvverly! That would cost £130 if there was no maintenance package on the car. I call that money saving. Matt
08 December 2003, 05:59 PM
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Matt,
I take no issue with any thing you've said except for
Either you weren't trying or your STI was a duffer!
tiggers.
I take no issue with any thing you've said except for
I'm going nowhere any slower than before
tiggers.
08 December 2003, 06:27 PM
#63
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tiggers - granted, but the trouble is that unless you inhabit NARCO's french quarter of utopia , you really can't use the performance of an STi in your average commute to work. I loved mine, it was 100% the car that i thought it would be, but i only got the benefit of it on the odd occasion i had time to sek at some really decent roads at a time of day when they were relatively free of grannies in micras and the like. When i had the STi i used to drive at up to 110 on open dual carriageways, now i have an old 2 litre pug i drive at about 90. the difference in the time it takes to get to work is unmeasurable, and my licence is probably a bit safer. I would still by another impreza, but i wouldn't buy one for doing the miles i do at the moment, in the south east. however i would buy a 330d or similar of i had a piggy bank to raid 
, you really can't use the performance of an STi in your average commute to work. I loved mine, it was 100% the car that i thought it would be, but i only got the benefit of it on the odd occasion i had time to sek at some really decent roads at a time of day when they were relatively free of grannies in micras and the like. When i had the STi i used to drive at up to 110 on open dual carriageways, now i have an old 2 litre pug i drive at about 90. the difference in the time it takes to get to work is unmeasurable, and my licence is probably a bit safer. I would still by another impreza, but i wouldn't buy one for doing the miles i do at the moment, in the south east. however i would buy a 330d or similar of i had a piggy bank to raid
08 December 2003, 06:46 PM
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ROFL @ Tiggers. I drive like Morgan Freeman drove Miss Daisy!
I do appreciate your sentiment, and would agree that in terms of outright acceleration, you can't compare the two. They both do exactly the same speed when sat in a traffic jam or dawdling along the by-pass in the morning/evening rush though!
Matt
I do appreciate your sentiment, and would agree that in terms of outright acceleration, you can't compare the two. They both do exactly the same speed when sat in a traffic jam or dawdling along the by-pass in the morning/evening rush though!
Matt
08 December 2003, 08:21 PM
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PC and Matt,
You're not wrong on the lack of chance to use the performance. I've just done 35 miles on motorway round Manchester and only got into 5th for about a quarter of that. For those of you who have driven an ITR you'll know just how bad that means the jounrney was.
Now where's France?
Regards,
tiggers.
You're not wrong on the lack of chance to use the performance. I've just done 35 miles on motorway round Manchester and only got into 5th for about a quarter of that. For those of you who have driven an ITR you'll know just how bad that means the jounrney was.
Now where's France?
Regards,
tiggers.
09 December 2003, 10:19 AM
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Oh this is going to go on and on and on.........
Scoobs for 'purely' road use now seem a waste of time to me unless you really 'NEED' the benefit of AWD (a farmer or someone who stays up some dodgy back roads), there are just too many speed cameras and coppers wanting to f**k up the fun and with such poor fuel consumption this just spoiled the enjoyment for me. I was getting about 20 mpg in my MY99 and less that 16 usually with my old MY98 PPP. Driving 30000+ miles pa, for me it was a complete no brainer.
The point made about Scoobs using Optimax again is quite valid as I always used Super in my PPP, most Scoobs 'prefer' Super Unleaded so the point about diesel being more expensive (1p, titter, titter why even mention that piffling amount????) is also bit silly. I always overtake a few Scoob boys every morning on the work run as they sit sensibly at legal speeds eking out the fuel while I cruise by at a nice steady (and stealthy in my grandad car) 85 mph getting 46 mpg
My Audi is no more expensive to service than the petrol version and with variable service intervals actually works out much cheaper.
On the noise issue modern diesels are also pretty damn quiet and well insulated, I can hardly hear the engine after it warms up and its totally silent at motorway speeds.
The diesel boys are the only ones making sense in this thread, NACRO hates diesels with a passion so is bias, he also doesnt inhabit the UK with all our related driving hassles, although I deffo wouldnt call F***ce utopia, LOL
For the performance nuts who keep saying diesels are slow, which they aint in the 'real world', (and yes NACRO the real world does exist m8 and some of us live in it) I drive a 150 bhp motorbike for thrills/track days and I can tell you this makes more sense than just having one car for 'all seasons'. Do you ride a bike NACRO, if not I can apply a fair bit of your logic to this fact, I could spend all day telling you bikes are better than cars, hehe
Also all the max power nova ned boys moved on to Scoobs round our way and I dont like the attention or the poor image anymore.
The Scoob was great in its day when it was unheard of, but time moves on and the fugly Bugeye doesnt do it for me. Now if I had a Spec C and some private land, that would be another matter
[Edited by Jye - 12/9/2003 10:22:04 AM]
Scoobs for 'purely' road use now seem a waste of time to me unless you really 'NEED' the benefit of AWD (a farmer or someone who stays up some dodgy back roads), there are just too many speed cameras and coppers wanting to f**k up the fun and with such poor fuel consumption this just spoiled the enjoyment for me. I was getting about 20 mpg in my MY99 and less that 16 usually with my old MY98 PPP. Driving 30000+ miles pa, for me it was a complete no brainer.
The point made about Scoobs using Optimax again is quite valid as I always used Super in my PPP, most Scoobs 'prefer' Super Unleaded so the point about diesel being more expensive (1p, titter, titter why even mention that piffling amount????) is also bit silly. I always overtake a few Scoob boys every morning on the work run as they sit sensibly at legal speeds eking out the fuel while I cruise by at a nice steady (and stealthy in my grandad car) 85 mph getting 46 mpg
My Audi is no more expensive to service than the petrol version and with variable service intervals actually works out much cheaper.
On the noise issue modern diesels are also pretty damn quiet and well insulated, I can hardly hear the engine after it warms up and its totally silent at motorway speeds.
The diesel boys are the only ones making sense in this thread, NACRO hates diesels with a passion so is bias, he also doesnt inhabit the UK with all our related driving hassles, although I deffo wouldnt call F***ce utopia, LOL
For the performance nuts who keep saying diesels are slow, which they aint in the 'real world', (and yes NACRO the real world does exist m8 and some of us live in it
) I drive a 150 bhp motorbike for thrills/track days and I can tell you this makes more sense than just having one car for 'all seasons'. Do you ride a bike NACRO, if not I can apply a fair bit of your logic to this fact, I could spend all day telling you bikes are better than cars, hehe Also all the max power nova ned boys moved on to Scoobs round our way and I dont like the attention or the poor image anymore.
The Scoob was great in its day when it was unheard of, but time moves on and the fugly Bugeye doesnt do it for me. Now if I had a Spec C and some private land, that would be another matter
[Edited by Jye - 12/9/2003 10:22:04 AM]
09 December 2003, 10:53 AM
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Jye,
You've hit the nail on the head there mate! Nice reasoning, and like you I have a Superbike in the garage for those days when nothing else will do!
Going back to the original question about tuning diesels. I have been reliably informed that an exhaust, ECU re-configure and rolling road tweak can release 250 bhp and up to 515 ft/lbs of torque from my car. All with no change to the economy. Now that is interesting!
Matt
[Edited by MattOz - 12/9/2003 10:56:09 AM]
You've hit the nail on the head there mate!
Nice reasoning, and like you I have a Superbike in the garage for those days when nothing else will do! Going back to the original question about tuning diesels. I have been reliably informed that an exhaust, ECU re-configure and rolling road tweak can release 250 bhp and up to 515 ft/lbs of torque from my car. All with no change to the economy. Now that is interesting!
Matt
[Edited by MattOz - 12/9/2003 10:56:09 AM]
09 December 2003, 11:11 AM
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I have a bike licence but at the moment no bike.............soon though perhaps, after I've got my E30.
anyone driving 30K pa is going to save money with a diesel- those that do average mileage stand to save sod all when you consider the extra purchase costs, fuel costs etc. BTW SUL costs me about 1 euro cent more than 95RON as there doesn't seem to be the same rip off tax differential.
This "real world" stuff is the biggest load of **** I've ever heard- still if you want to believe your cars are quick then feel free to delude yourselves. I get the chance to see the truth almost everyday as there are so many "performance" diesel users here who all seem to be under the impression they are driving some kind of sports car- they aren't, even an old Impreza can hand them their *** on a plate under "real world" conditions.
Save money with a diesel? Possibly but you have to do mega mileage.
anyone driving 30K pa is going to save money with a diesel- those that do average mileage stand to save sod all when you consider the extra purchase costs, fuel costs etc. BTW SUL costs me about 1 euro cent more than 95RON as there doesn't seem to be the same rip off tax differential.
This "real world" stuff is the biggest load of **** I've ever heard- still if you want to believe your cars are quick then feel free to delude yourselves. I get the chance to see the truth almost everyday as there are so many "performance" diesel users here who all seem to be under the impression they are driving some kind of sports car- they aren't, even an old Impreza can hand them their *** on a plate under "real world" conditions.
Save money with a diesel? Possibly but you have to do mega mileage.
09 December 2003, 11:17 AM
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I'd agree mega mileage users save with diesel as do company car drivers- my point is that a diesel isn't an automatic route to cheap motoring for everyone- and has been throughout this thread.
When I looked at the savings to be made it amounted to less than 1K a yr- for that I'd have got a significantly slower car, had to outlay a large amount of capital and put up with huge Q's at the service stations (always a massive Q here as most people have diesels). As it is I've found a budget petrol powered car that has so far cost me peanuts to run.
When I looked at the savings to be made it amounted to less than 1K a yr- for that I'd have got a significantly slower car, had to outlay a large amount of capital and put up with huge Q's at the service stations (always a massive Q here as most people have diesels). As it is I've found a budget petrol powered car that has so far cost me peanuts to run.
09 December 2003, 11:19 AM
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41mpg
cheap insurance
low running costs
and
fun to drive
got this already and it aint diesel - Clio Cup.
Agree with points made above on scoobs by Propercharlie and others. In these increasingly draconian times on road users I'm far less in danger of getting in trouble with the law in the Cup than my old P1.
cheap insurance
low running costs
and
fun to drive
got this already and it aint diesel - Clio Cup.
Agree with points made above on scoobs by Propercharlie and others. In these increasingly draconian times on road users I'm far less in danger of getting in trouble with the law in the Cup than my old P1.
09 December 2003, 11:23 AM
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Yes they are.
Other halfs Golf 130 tuned at Jabbasport to 196bhp !! Still returns 48mpg and would surprise alot of cars out there. Given the high torque figures it catches most cars unaware.
Just look at depreciation on the Golf. If I was sensible I would buy one and stick some coilovers on it !
J
Other halfs Golf 130 tuned at Jabbasport to 196bhp !! Still returns 48mpg and would surprise alot of cars out there. Given the high torque figures it catches most cars unaware.
Just look at depreciation on the Golf. If I was sensible I would buy one and stick some coilovers on it !
J
09 December 2003, 11:45 AM
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So let's see - don't have a Scoob because the roads are congested and there's too many police/speed cameras, but do have a superbike - yeah that makes sense
tiggers.
tiggers.
09 December 2003, 11:57 AM
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LOL @ tiggers, OK, but only one rear plate on the bike helps with most speed cameras up here, and its a lot easier to go quick on the bike on busy roads, and if you read my post I did mention track days.
Track days were not an option on either of my Scoob's as they were daily drivers
Next.
Track days were not an option on either of my Scoob's as they were daily drivers
Next.
09 December 2003, 12:08 PM
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Scoob(UK99)insurance: £700
Golf Tdi 130: £550 i.e. not much in it
£40 fuel in Scoob: 240 miles
£40 fuel in TDi: 440 miles i.e. lots in it
Scoob servicing: avg £200 every 7500 miles
TDi servicing: done 12k miles and not a penny spent so far
Everyday driving - not much in it. In my 25 mile commute this morning I was only able to give the Scoob "the lot" once. The Golf is much more civilised for everyday driving.
Golf Tdi 130: £550 i.e. not much in it
£40 fuel in Scoob: 240 miles
£40 fuel in TDi: 440 miles i.e. lots in it
Scoob servicing: avg £200 every 7500 miles
TDi servicing: done 12k miles and not a penny spent so far
Everyday driving - not much in it. In my 25 mile commute this morning I was only able to give the Scoob "the lot" once. The Golf is much more civilised for everyday driving.
09 December 2003, 12:38 PM
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MattOz,
Agree with everything you've said apart from the 515lb/ft out of a 330d with a just a re-map........the words "chance, not, hell, in & a" come to mind but not neccesarily in that order 
Agree with everything you've said apart from the 515lb/ft out of a 330d with a just a re-map........the words "chance, not, hell, in & a" come to mind but not neccesarily in that order
09 December 2003, 12:48 PM
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Jye,
I know mate, I know - I was just having a bit of fun with you Do you know what though I reckon you're probably right - a bike maybe the way to go.
tiggers.
I know mate, I know - I was just having a bit of fun with you
Do you know what though I reckon you're probably right - a bike maybe the way to go.tiggers.
09 December 2003, 12:57 PM
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Matt has probably mistyped the performance gains... maybe he was blinded by the shine on his 330d, and misread the figures.
Quick search on Google showed one possible site for 330d enhancements here.
515Nm off the older 184bhp model. I assume the new one with over 200bhp std would give better results?
Quick search on Google showed one possible site for 330d enhancements here.
515Nm off the older 184bhp model. I assume the new one with over 200bhp std would give better results?
09 December 2003, 01:10 PM
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Duck Pond,
Yeah I thought he might have meant 515Nm but didn't know the conversion rate from Nm to lb/ft so still thought that would be too much but I just found out what it is & 515Nm works out to be 379lb/ft which seems feasable from the latest 330d as they're 288lb/ft as standard Pretty impressive!!
Yeah I thought he might have meant 515Nm but didn't know the conversion rate from Nm to lb/ft so still thought that would be too much but I just found out what it is & 515Nm works out to be 379lb/ft which seems feasable from the latest 330d as they're 288lb/ft as standard
Pretty impressive!!
09 December 2003, 01:11 PM
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Pete LOL
Ian,
515ft/lbs is not a misprint. With a full exhaust system and ECU mods the figure is, I'm led to believe, achieveable. BMW themselves claim 369ft/lbs for the same engine in their 5 and 7 series. These figures have been proved to be slightly shy of the truth, and a number of cars have been dyno'd at nearer 400ft/lbs stock. Bearing this in mind, and increase of 115ft/lbs or 25% is not unreasonable.
Matt
Ian,
515ft/lbs is not a misprint. With a full exhaust system and ECU mods the figure is, I'm led to believe, achieveable. BMW themselves claim 369ft/lbs for the same engine in their 5 and 7 series. These figures have been proved to be slightly shy of the truth, and a number of cars have been dyno'd at nearer 400ft/lbs stock. Bearing this in mind, and increase of 115ft/lbs or 25% is not unreasonable.
Matt
09 December 2003, 01:24 PM
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The new engine is rather good...the tuningbox, which is just a plug-in module takes it to 245BHP and 490NM or 370lbft(ish) With a remap I've been quotes over 250BHP and 510NM+ again with no exhaust change. Takes the 0-62 time to around the 6 second mark which I suspect would give quite a few people a bit of a shock.
Steve
Steve
09 December 2003, 01:27 PM
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Ian,
My 330d is quoted as 302ft/lbs as standard with 204 bhp (same bhp as original 3-door! ), but those that have been tested so far seem to put out between 320 and 325ft/lbs, and up to 210 bhp.
It really is a brilliant engine!
Matt
My 330d is quoted as 302ft/lbs as standard with 204 bhp (same bhp as original 3-door!
), but those that have been tested so far seem to put out between 320 and 325ft/lbs, and up to 210 bhp. It really is a brilliant engine!
Matt
09 December 2003, 02:50 PM
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Matt,
Sorry I was using the figures out of Evo Magazine, I assumed they must have been the latest model's figures but obviously not
What difference is there between a 330d engine & a 730d then to make an extra 70-ish lb/ft?
Cheers,
Ian
Sorry I was using the figures out of Evo Magazine, I assumed they must have been the latest model's figures but obviously not
What difference is there between a 330d engine & a 730d then to make an extra 70-ish lb/ft?
Cheers,
Ian
09 December 2003, 03:50 PM
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Ian,
Steve is right. It's just the ECU programming. IIRC, BMW Germany can reprogramme the 330d ECU so that it's the same as the 5 and 7 series, and you keep the warranty intact. This is not available through UK dealers 
You're right about EVO being out of date. I think that most of the mags still have the 330d rated as 184bhp and 288 ft/lbs, rather than the new figures
Matt
[Edited by MattOz - 12/9/2003 3:52:17 PM]
Steve is right. It's just the ECU programming. IIRC, BMW Germany can reprogramme the 330d ECU so that it's the same as the 5 and 7 series, and you keep the warranty intact.
This is not available through UK dealers You're right about EVO being out of date. I think that most of the mags still have the 330d rated as 184bhp and 288 ft/lbs, rather than the new figures
Matt
[Edited by MattOz - 12/9/2003 3:52:17 PM]
09 December 2003, 03:58 PM
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Quiet? No just been doing some work.
good figures and an exceptional sounding diesel powered car- exceptional being the key word. Anyone know what using the enhanced performance does to the economy figures?
BTW it would still be slower than my pocket money budget Impreza. Nicer to drive on the motorway though and I suppose better snob value-if you need a car to bolster your ego that is. I prefer cars for what they can do. I still can't see a diesel saving me any money at all.
edited to add: well aware of those figures and outputs before I read them here, after all I'm a motoring enthusiast. V10 VW diesel engine anyone? Shame these diesel powerplants add so much weight to the front end really.
[Edited by NACRO - 12/9/2003 4:00:19 PM]
good figures and an exceptional sounding diesel powered car- exceptional being the key word. Anyone know what using the enhanced performance does to the economy figures?
BTW it would still be slower than my pocket money budget Impreza. Nicer to drive on the motorway though and I suppose better snob value-if you need a car to bolster your ego that is. I prefer cars for what they can do. I still can't see a diesel saving me any money at all.
edited to add: well aware of those figures and outputs before I read them here, after all I'm a motoring enthusiast. V10 VW diesel engine anyone? Shame these diesel powerplants add so much weight to the front end really.
[Edited by NACRO - 12/9/2003 4:00:19 PM]
09 December 2003, 04:03 PM
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The revised ecu program will make about a 1-2 MPG improvement because of the improved low down torque if the guys who have the tuningbox etc are anything to go by.
Steve
Steve