Diesels are they really money savers?
09 December 2003, 04:20 PM
#91
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I can believe it-my scooby Ecu'd Impreza returns nearly 30mpg on average since the upgrade.
However fuel costs are pretty irrelevant unless you cover a mega-mileage.
I get the idea some people on here think I'm anti-diesel, nothing could be further from the truth, I just don't see them as big money savers or for the most part performance cars.
However fuel costs are pretty irrelevant unless you cover a mega-mileage.
I get the idea some people on here think I'm anti-diesel, nothing could be further from the truth, I just don't see them as big money savers or for the most part performance cars.
09 December 2003, 04:27 PM
#92
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Well sorry for being sceptical but I just can't see that you can get an extra 70lb/ft from an official re-map from BMW as they've done for the 5 & 7 series & then an aftermarket re-mapper getting ANOTHER 145lb/ft out of the same engine apart from an aftermarket exhaust. The only way I can see that happening either from:
a) Screaming the nuts off the turbo (even if it is just the mid-range spike)
b) The RR operator resting his foot on the brake on the rundown
Of course I could be wrong & would be happy to be proved wrong if someone wants to make these mods & then take their car on a non biased RR operator & then let me drive it for another non-biased opinion.
Cheers,
Ian
PS. No doubting it is a cracking engine & indeed car as a whole
a) Screaming the nuts off the turbo (even if it is just the mid-range spike)
b) The RR operator resting his foot on the brake on the rundown
Of course I could be wrong & would be happy to be proved wrong if someone wants to make these mods & then take their car on a non biased RR operator & then let me drive it for another non-biased opinion.
Cheers,
Ian
PS. No doubting it is a cracking engine & indeed car as a whole
09 December 2003, 05:49 PM
#93
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Ian,
What I intend to do is have a RR session at PowerStation with my standard car, so that I have baseline figures. I will then most likely have the exhaust fitted, but only from the cat back. I'll then have it run again to see if there is much of a change
If funds allow I'll look into the re-map and full system in time, but something called a warranty might preclude me from doing that for a while!
Matt
What I intend to do is have a RR session at PowerStation with my standard car, so that I have baseline figures. I will then most likely have the exhaust fitted, but only from the cat back. I'll then have it run again to see if there is much of a change
If funds allow I'll look into the re-map and full system in time, but something called a warranty might preclude me from doing that for a while!
Matt
09 December 2003, 06:05 PM
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Matt,
Sounds good mate.
BTW, I just spoke to one of the most highly respected re-mappers (of any car not just diesels - but he does ALOT of them) & he said he recently did a new engined 330d like yours & it got 245bhp & 392lb/ft on the rollers (not their own I might add ). So this kinda backs up my theory that 515Nm is feasable but 515lb/ft really isn't as even with a proper race-car side exit exhaust there's no way in hell you're gonna add another 123lb/ft onto that.
Still bloody good though & I'd seriously contemplate having one if I had the brass
Cheers,
Ian
Sounds good mate.
BTW, I just spoke to one of the most highly respected re-mappers (of any car not just diesels - but he does ALOT of them) & he said he recently did a new engined 330d like yours & it got 245bhp & 392lb/ft on the rollers (not their own I might add
). So this kinda backs up my theory that 515Nm is feasable but 515lb/ft really isn't as even with a proper race-car side exit exhaust there's no way in hell you're gonna add another 123lb/ft onto that.Still bloody good though & I'd seriously contemplate having one if I had the brass
Cheers,
Ian
09 December 2003, 06:26 PM
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Well I can believe 500lbft+.
I recently had a run in a Fabia vRS that's been mapped at Jabbasport.
Jabba keep within manufacturers tolerence and pass emmission tests.
Little 1.9PD 130.... - 196bhp and 320lbft.
Lee
I recently had a run in a Fabia vRS that's been mapped at Jabbasport.
Jabba keep within manufacturers tolerence and pass emmission tests.
Little 1.9PD 130.... - 196bhp and 320lbft.
Lee
09 December 2003, 06:50 PM
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Hmmm Jabbasport........has anyone ever actually tested one of their conversion's on another RR other than their own? I say that because I remember a post on here a while back saying they took their PD130 to Jabbasport & with a chip it took the power up to 190-somethingBHP & I thought that was impressive & pretty believable but then he mentioned that there was only a 0.2BAR increase in turbo pressure. I thought this was rather odd as that would mean that about 80% of those gains would be from fuel "optimisation" & that would mean that the cars coming from VW would have to be set-up SOOOOOOO far out it'd be unreal.
[Edited by Ian2wdsaffcos - 12/9/2003 7:05:04 PM]
I say that because I remember a post on here a while back saying they took their PD130 to Jabbasport & with a chip it took the power up to 190-somethingBHP & I thought that was impressive & pretty believable but then he mentioned that there was only a 0.2BAR increase in turbo pressure. I thought this was rather odd as that would mean that about 80% of those gains would be from fuel "optimisation" & that would mean that the cars coming from VW would have to be set-up SOOOOOOO far out it'd be unreal. [Edited by Ian2wdsaffcos - 12/9/2003 7:05:04 PM]
10 December 2003, 03:17 PM
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Ian,
Not sure about the Jabbasport conversions, but I know that big gains can be made by upping the boost only very slightly over standard factory. Of course, no increase in boost is preferable. However, we're only dealing with 0.7bar as standard, so it's not really blowing that hard initially.
I remember in the good old days you just tweaked the fuel pump on a diesel to throw more in and that seemed to do the trick. Guess it's more complicated now.
Lee, a Fabia RS with that kinda power and torque would be hilarious! Nice One!
I also hear that BMW is producing a twin turbo 3 litre diesel for release next year?! That'll be fun.
Matt
PS Anyone know where I can find a T88 for my 330d! LOL
Not sure about the Jabbasport conversions, but I know that big gains can be made by upping the boost only very slightly over standard factory. Of course, no increase in boost is preferable. However, we're only dealing with 0.7bar as standard, so it's not really blowing that hard initially.
I remember in the good old days you just tweaked the fuel pump on a diesel to throw more in and that seemed to do the trick. Guess it's more complicated now.
Lee, a Fabia RS with that kinda power and torque would be hilarious! Nice One!
I also hear that BMW is producing a twin turbo 3 litre diesel for release next year?! That'll be fun.
Matt
PS Anyone know where I can find a T88 for my 330d! LOL
10 December 2003, 03:24 PM
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Matt - I've heard that Beemers can boost their power by having some shirts hanging up inside the back doors. Now that you have a proper rep-mobile, you should look the part.
10 December 2003, 03:44 PM
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Ian's final thought for the post..........
IF & I stress IF 515lb/ft is possible from a basically standard 330d (& is reliable putting nearly twice the torque through the engine!!) then I pity anyones transmission that actually tries this..........as a comparison, once Rod Tarry put NOS on his already 490lb/ft RWD Sapphire Cossie (which brought the torque up to somewhere around 540lb/ft) he would litterally destroy an Alcon 6 paddle racing clutch every 3-400 (yes hundreds) miles of normal driving, not launching, just normal driving!! He has now had to get a special twin plate clutch made up for it in America I believe, so you can bet your **** that's not gonna be cheap!! He also has several grand's worth of uprated diff & gearbox in it. Remember this is his second car aswell, he doesn't use it every day like I would think 99.999% of 330d owners do.
Oh & Rod Tarry has recently stripped his engine (remember, specially built for the purpose) & after only 20k he said his engine was certainly getting tired & the turbo was on it's last legs...........I wonder how long a 330d bottom end & turbo which weren't designed for high outputs like the cossie was would last?
Remember, take car of yourselves aaannndd each other........ 
[Edited by Ian2wdsaffcos - 12/10/2003 3:45:07 PM]
IF & I stress IF 515lb/ft is possible from a basically standard 330d (& is reliable putting nearly twice the torque through the engine!!) then I pity anyones transmission that actually tries this..........as a comparison, once Rod Tarry put NOS on his already 490lb/ft RWD Sapphire Cossie (which brought the torque up to somewhere around 540lb/ft) he would litterally destroy an Alcon 6 paddle racing clutch every 3-400 (yes hundreds) miles of normal driving, not launching, just normal driving!! He has now had to get a special twin plate clutch made up for it in America I believe, so you can bet your **** that's not gonna be cheap!! He also has several grand's worth of uprated diff & gearbox in it. Remember this is his second car aswell, he doesn't use it every day like I would think 99.999% of 330d owners do.
Oh & Rod Tarry has recently stripped his engine (remember, specially built for the purpose) & after only 20k he said his engine was certainly getting tired & the turbo was on it's last legs...........I wonder how long a 330d bottom end & turbo which weren't designed for high outputs like the cossie was would last?
Remember, take car of yourselves aaannndd each other........
[Edited by Ian2wdsaffcos - 12/10/2003 3:45:07 PM]
10 December 2003, 03:56 PM
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From what I've read the transmission is probably the limiting factor where the box eats itself if you get too carried away.
Most of the upgrades only deal with fueling and don't touch the boost at all.
Steve
Most of the upgrades only deal with fueling and don't touch the boost at all.
Steve
10 December 2003, 04:39 PM
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Ian
Im pretty sure thats all the boost was raised by Ian, not 100 % !!
I did however ensure a b4 power run was carried out in which the car did 141bhp, its done 30k and I am told VW are again conservative.
The Jabbasport map has made no difference in fuel economy.
For 11k the Fabia RS would be a hell of a car with a Jabbasport remap, just couldnt get my head around the badge snobbery, more fool my pocket I guess !
J
Im pretty sure thats all the boost was raised by Ian, not 100 % !!
I did however ensure a b4 power run was carried out in which the car did 141bhp, its done 30k and I am told VW are again conservative.
The Jabbasport map has made no difference in fuel economy.
For 11k the Fabia RS would be a hell of a car with a Jabbasport remap, just couldnt get my head around the badge snobbery, more fool my pocket I guess !
J
12 December 2003, 01:28 PM
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I think the real comparison is between a 330D and std WRX, rather than the specialised and more hardcore sti the WRX is faster, much lighter and has the awd advantage. Mine does about 28 - 30 mpg the beemer around 40 mpgish. Servicing is cheap and the dealers are freindly. The beemer is more comfortable and better on a motorway but theres not a lot in it, but purely in terms of running costs you will never recover the 10k price difference.
As a value proposition I dont think you can beat the 03WRX.
As a value proposition I dont think you can beat the 03WRX.
12 December 2003, 01:49 PM
#103
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I'm saving over £2000+ a year on fuel alone, £200-300 a year on insurance, £600-1000 on servicing as BMW pay for everything except tyres and then have a car with a significantly higher residual value...ok the car i had a classic shape Impreza but the BMW is leagues ahead of the Scooby on motorway travel, comfort etc. and yes I did try both a WRX and an STI before I bought it...
Just my 2p worth....
Steve
Just my 2p worth....
Steve
12 December 2003, 07:27 PM
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my00 PPP impreza insurance around £1200
130 TDi Audi A4 Avant £600
Scoob - servicing ever 7k miles
Audi variable service - first one after 20k miles
Scoob - around 200 miles to the tank full
Audi - between 500-700 miles to the tank full.
Westfield in the garage with the savings! Insurance on Westie and Audi still cheaper than the Scoob!
130 TDi Audi A4 Avant £600
Scoob - servicing ever 7k miles
Audi variable service - first one after 20k miles
Scoob - around 200 miles to the tank full
Audi - between 500-700 miles to the tank full.
Westfield in the garage with the savings! Insurance on Westie and Audi still cheaper than the Scoob!
12 December 2003, 07:47 PM
#105
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Servicing intervals have changed on the MY01+ scoob WRX's.... check your service book!
Over here it's every 25000 kms (around 15500 miles) or every 12 months whichever comes first!
A lot of Subaru garages keep to the old service schedules around 7500 miles and every 6 months (That's a bit cheeky!)
As diesels go I think you'll find like for like ie..
Golf petrol Vs Golf diesel same spec and power
Diesel will cost more to buy, insure and service.
There is also a reliability issue with diesels here, modern day diesels are producing 4 times the power of cars 10 years a go that power equates to more stress.
Of course technology advances but will the new diesels be capable of mega mileage?
Plums..
13 December 2003, 04:51 PM
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More urban myths I see.
Most engine wear occurs at startup and on short journeys, diesel is a better lubricant until the oil circulates, most diesels are bought by people who do long journeys so the oil burns off any condensation etc, diesel oil technology has far surpassed that of older oils, diesels have less parts to go wrong, hence diesels will always outlive petrol engines. Servicing is not more expensive on diesels, its less, insurance is not more expensive on diesels from my experience. My boss has a 4 year old A4 diesel with 265,000 miles on the clock.
I wish some of these muppets posting would read the previous thread posts, i.e. diesels with service intervals of 20,000 miles etc.
edited to say I know of no Subaru with 15,500 mile service intervals, afaik its 10K, although I may be wrong.
[Edited by Jye - 12/13/2003 5:02:21 PM]
Most engine wear occurs at startup and on short journeys, diesel is a better lubricant until the oil circulates, most diesels are bought by people who do long journeys so the oil burns off any condensation etc, diesel oil technology has far surpassed that of older oils, diesels have less parts to go wrong, hence diesels will always outlive petrol engines. Servicing is not more expensive on diesels, its less, insurance is not more expensive on diesels from my experience. My boss has a 4 year old A4 diesel with 265,000 miles on the clock.
I wish some of these muppets posting would read the previous thread posts, i.e. diesels with service intervals of 20,000 miles etc.
edited to say I know of no Subaru with 15,500 mile service intervals, afaik its 10K, although I may be wrong.
[Edited by Jye - 12/13/2003 5:02:21 PM]
13 December 2003, 06:18 PM
#108
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Apparently diesels are more costly to insure because they cost more to buy than there petrol equivalent....
I'm not talking Subaru WRX STI Vs VW Lupo TDi
I'm talking like for like... Try comparing Lupo TDi Vs Lupo 1.4 at your local insurance, you may be suprised!
Servicing "can" be more expensive as heater plugs and fuel filters may need regular changing depending on model.... and not just oil, oil/air filter.
Subaru WRX 25000 Kms or 12 month service whichever comes first as I said before!
I'm not into spouting sh*te about stuff that I don't know...
Plums.
13 December 2003, 06:46 PM
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This thread must die! But here's my 2p worth.
Modern big diesels are superb, but the original post was are they worth it? The ultimate money saver is running a nearly new disposable car like a Suzuki Swift or a Korean whatever with 5 year warranty, and having "something for the weekend" on the side.
I agree with i think it was Nacro about "real world performance"
that being booting it down a slip road - 0-100 type performance. Where is this world where you can't be arsed dropping a gear? This 50-70 in 4th is pointless.
The 330 petrol is (afaik) 6 seconds quicker to 100 than the diesel.
If you do lots of miles then a 330d (for example) is the daddy, it will save you lots of money and is a fine car. But the petrol does **** all over it, if you're not counting the beans.
Modern big diesels are superb, but the original post was are they worth it? The ultimate money saver is running a nearly new disposable car like a Suzuki Swift or a Korean whatever with 5 year warranty, and having "something for the weekend" on the side.
I agree with i think it was Nacro about "real world performance"
that being booting it down a slip road - 0-100 type performance. Where is this world where you can't be arsed dropping a gear? This 50-70 in 4th is pointless.
The 330 petrol is (afaik) 6 seconds quicker to 100 than the diesel.
If you do lots of miles then a 330d (for example) is the daddy, it will save you lots of money and is a fine car. But the petrol does **** all over it, if you're not counting the beans.
15 December 2003, 11:43 AM
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OK plums, I'm sorry m8, should have looked at your location. Which makes me wonder, why a longer service interval in Switzerland than the UK. Cleaner air??
15 December 2003, 11:48 AM
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I would imagine the service intervals are related to the specific importer being willing to take more risk on warranty and the local market conditions needed to be competitive.
Intervals here (France) for all Imprezas are 10K miles according to my local Subaru concessionaire. I still have my oil changed every 5K miles.
[Edited by NACRO - 12/15/2003 11:48:24 AM]
Intervals here (France) for all Imprezas are 10K miles according to my local Subaru concessionaire. I still have my oil changed every 5K miles.
[Edited by NACRO - 12/15/2003 11:48:24 AM]
15 December 2003, 11:57 AM
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For your info Plums this is the service intervals I can find for the UK spacestar.
1.8 Petrol - every 9000 miles.
http://www.mitsubishi-cars.co.uk/spa...sp?strCar1=BF3
Diesel - every 9000 miles.
http://www.mitsubishi-cars.co.uk/spacestar/specifications.asp?strCar1=BE9]http://www.mitsubishi-cars.co.uk/spacestar/specifications.asp?strCar1=BE9]http://www.mitsubishi-cars.co.uk/spacestar/specifications.asp?strCar1=BE9
These are for UK cars, which again makes me wonder why a Swiss car would have a service interval 3 times longer. Wierd.
[Edited by Jye - 12/15/2003 11:59:44 AM]
1.8 Petrol - every 9000 miles.
http://www.mitsubishi-cars.co.uk/spa...sp?strCar1=BF3
Diesel - every 9000 miles.
http://www.mitsubishi-cars.co.uk/spacestar/specifications.asp?strCar1=BE9]http://www.mitsubishi-cars.co.uk/spacestar/specifications.asp?strCar1=BE9]http://www.mitsubishi-cars.co.uk/spacestar/specifications.asp?strCar1=BE9
These are for UK cars, which again makes me wonder why a Swiss car would have a service interval 3 times longer. Wierd.
[Edited by Jye - 12/15/2003 11:59:44 AM]
15 December 2003, 12:01 PM
#114
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--I would imagine the service intervals are related to the specific importer being willing to take more risk on warranty and the local market conditions needed to be competitive--
I doubt this can be the case when the UK says 9000 miles for the Spacestar and the Swiss one is 25000. That just doesnt make sense.
edited to say the diesel is only £250 more expensive in the UK.
[Edited by Jye - 12/15/2003 12:03:40 PM]
I doubt this can be the case when the UK says 9000 miles for the Spacestar and the Swiss one is 25000. That just doesnt make sense.
edited to say the diesel is only £250 more expensive in the UK.
[Edited by Jye - 12/15/2003 12:03:40 PM]
15 December 2003, 02:06 PM
#115
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The fact that service intervals are different is very strange and a little disturbing!
I do know that the new Mitsubishi petrol engines have the new GDI engine and over here it does indeed share the same service intervals as the diesel, the standard petrol engine however does not....
I will try to scan my service book tomorrow (from the Scoob)
and post it here....
Don't forget over here we work in Kilometers! 25000 Kilometers
Cheers,
Plums.
16 December 2003, 11:56 AM
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Yes I realise this Plums, but in your first post you stated:
For a kick off the diesel was £500 more...
Diesel servicing every 6 months/ 7500 miles
Petrol servicing every 12 months/25000 miles
Was this meant to say Km?
For a kick off the diesel was £500 more...
Diesel servicing every 6 months/ 7500 miles
Petrol servicing every 12 months/25000 miles
Was this meant to say Km?
