Tiggs

lol...yep, that'll do it, i expect they are booking plane tickets back to the UK allready!

NotoriousREV

Interesting that NU's share price dropped following the announcement, you'd think the markets would approve of something that is likely to increase profitability.

dilbert02

I read a comment a few weeks ago about the out sourcing of call centres and IT for India etc. It said where you were all the objectors when they moved all the manufacturing jobs abroad? Fair enough.. But the rot has to stop somewhere. You wouldn't get the French allowing jobs to be exported in that way. Sheep would be burning outside NU if this was in France!!

Adrian F

To take this to its logical conclusion you better all make sure that you only buy goods made in the UK including your cars!

Can't have one rule for call centres and not for people who actually make some thing.

PS made with British materials like British steel etc as well

Leslie

I think it is a pity that profitability is regarded as the most important thing in life these days. It stems from Mrs Thatcher's original pronouncement and it quickly developed into making maximum rather than fair profits at all costs. Firms felt that if dividends did not increase markedly year on year then they would be accused of failing! It has always been a mistake to worship money.

This attitude has made the accountants "King". they pare costs to the minimum and too bad on anyone who might just be in the way. They regard people as being of very little interest. They have earned the term "bean counters" advisedly.

The consequences of course are that loyalty to one's staff has been completely ruled out. If someone can be kicked out to save a bit then thats what they will do regardless of what the guy might have achieved in the past for the firm. I've seen this happen to friends of mine. Naturally the firms have lost any loyalty back from their employees. One used to be able to rely on keeping a job providing you did it to a satisfactory standard. Now these firms are shifting to the cheapest labour and deserting their employees all in the name of greed. I think it is shamefull that they are dumping the people who have supported them in the past and I don't think it will be to their advantage in the end. There is no trust anymore, that is a great loss,and difficult to regain. It is a poor advertisement for globalism and could even be the start of civilisation on the skids!

Les

ChrisB

Dell announced last week they were pulling a lot of their business support out of India back to the US. Big spending corporates didn't like the level of service.

Billy Home User in the US still gets shunted out to India though.

r32

Norwich Unions service it total shiote. I was with them up until recently. Ever thought how you explain a private plate to some one in another country. They could just not get that the car was the same but the number had changed!
Then when I was having PPP fitted it was just terrible, they will not insure modded cars at all. So they owed me 500 pounds plus. They promised it would be transferred in three or four days, it took me 3 weeks to get my money back. Lots of phone calls and e,mails. They would not pass me on to some one actually in the UK so I could find out the truth. Just kept telling me it had been paid, plus everytime I spoke with them I just got a total load of lies. In the end I had to threaten with legal action and called what they had done theft!
Dont go there use some one else!

Dave P

A friend of ours was commenting on NU at the weekend. She rang to get some info on their van which is insured as a commercial vehicle. The guy at the end of the line in a call centre in India didn't have a clue. So now she keeps ringing and asks where they are based and keeps dialing til she gets someone based in the UK.

To me an interesting issue with this is the loss of wealth in this country. Let's just say for arguments sake that 20,000 jobs go overseas at an average salary of 14k. That's 280 million out of the economy here. So these people cancel their insurance policies, close down their bank accounts, can't afford to dial 192 etc. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. So ulimately these companies reduce their own customer bases.

Dave

r32

Notice the list further up does not include HSBC, they are moving their call centre to India too, I am in the process of moving Banks because of it. I already moved from NU. Its not that I have anything against Indians, in fact I used to love the Lone Ranger films as a child. That Toronto was just fab, hey Kemo Saby.I think Custer got what he deserved too.
Its the loss of jobs from the UK just for greed, the Country they get exported too is irrelevant.

[Edited by r32 - 12/3/2003 12:21:11 PM]

[Edited by r32 - 12/3/2003 12:22:23 PM]

ianmiller999

That may well be a far comment but most people can unsderstand how to drive a foreign car, as successfully as a British car, however they do not get the same service from an Indian Call centre as they do from a British one.

Also all these companies sending call centres abroad should consider improving there services such that a call centre is not required rather then sending them abroad because so many people are phoning complaining of their problems.

Jye

My insurance is up for renewal with NU Direct on the 12th of this month. I havent phoned them yet as I'm looking for other companies to give my hard earned to.

They had the cheek to bump up my premium by roughly 10% since last year (no claims or changes) then tell me they have given me a 5% discount as I have a home contents policy with them, grrrrrrrrrrrrr.........

civictyper

Phew, good job I bought a Honda from Swindon ehh

'Can' and 'worms' spring to mind when I think about this whole call centre thing.

I think the trouble is that many UK companies have tended to be bought out by larger foriegn ones. The Midland Bank is one example. As the HSBC is now in control then really they have no obligation to keep sectors of workforce here any more than Honda do with their Swindon plant.

On the other hand British owned companies that have become sucessful because of British people have a moral obligation to keep the workforce here.

The thing that does not make this a clear cut situation for me though is that I hate BT - with a passion. The call centre staff I've had to deal with there are a bunch of tossers and only seem to action about 5% of my requests (in fact the same goes for most other call centres I use but BT is by far the worst).

So what's the lesser of two evils ? Pay peanuts and get an unmotivated monkey (in the UK) or pay a decent salary (in India at least) and get a postgrad that might need more experience but ultimately wants to do the job properly ?

Answers on a postcard please

Dracoro

We ALL buy products/services from around the globe. The only problems are the quality of service/product.

If the quality of service deteriorates then buy your insurance elsewhere.

Some call centre's are better than others. There's also many stories of calls routed to India that are positive. Instead of waiting for 3 minutes to be answered, you wait for less than 30 seconds(10 times as many agents = 10% waiting time) to speak to someone. That person is enthusiastic, pleasant and speaks clear English rather than a 'can't be arsed, rude, strong accent' which you get a lot of over here.

Basically you'll get good & bad call centres here and in India (or wherever!). If the service is good then I don't care where the person at the other end of the phone is.

If you want the jobs to stay in the UK then the solution is simple. UK workforce must be paid less so that redeploying to India is not commercially viable. But then again, how many Brits will work for a few thousand a year? We live in the 1st world and demand cars, tvs, nice houses, good food, all of which costs money. People in 3rd world countries have lower expectations and thus don't need so much to live on and therefore will charge less for their labour.

[Edited by Dracoro - 12/3/2003 2:17:44 PM]

Josh L

So HSBC, being a global company, have their callcentre in Malaysia. So what? I still visit my branch, and 15 years of travelling around the area has taught me that their english is as often as not better than many UK residents, regardless of race, colour, creed etc.

Not quite so sure about insurance company callcentres overseas though, as knowledge counts for a great deal when you're trying to sort out a claim. I find it difficult enough trying to get any sense out of the foreign gentleman I deal with in Leeds (afternoon Tom)

Whilst I understand why people being angry about it, business becomes more and more global every day, and I think there's little we can do to stop it.

Josh

trigbert

I work for a v. large IT services company and the bosses have been trying to move more work to India such as call centres, development etc.. Earlier this year, they moved our IT support there too and it was flinkin useless, 10 days to get your password changed was the norm.

Had to laugh the other day when I found out that they have brought internal IT support back to the UK because of the poor service.

Our poor customers though still have to go to India and the're probably paying a fortune for the privelage. If that gets out that'll be fun. Still at least I get my password changed in 5 minutes now.

paulr

Gotta say i agree with Leslie and Paul Hapgood on this one.

Wonders will never cease...

ProperCharlie

What Leslie says is all very good and honorable, but the problem is that 99% of people still care more about the cost than the quality. as soon as your competitors start serious cost cutting measures, you basically have to follow suit or go under.

I try to run a *people friendly* business and i can tell you that you don't get much bl00dy thanks for it

haven't started outsourcing to india yet, though

Gus M

I will not be renewing my policy with NU. We must keep as many jobs in this country as possible.

Luke

I work anywhere ,with anyone for anybody. keep moving and earn the money. Thnis country has been riding on its **** for too many years.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Well, quite a lot of misinformation here...

the average salary of a call centre agent in India is £4,000, this is in an economy where 15p buys you a much as a £1 does in the UK, it is also MORE than an average doctor earns!

secondly, as far as I know, Norwich Union does not require any of its staff in India to use 'pretend' names - if this is the case it is local staff who are assuming these names

finally, the total cost of the Aviva renaming was not a fortune as suggested, if you check the papers at the time of the renaming, it was less than £1m, better value than the £11m that Abbey National spent on being renamed Abbey!!

Adrian F

I just can't believe that a web site based on people who like a Japanese car has a posting complaining about jobs going abroad. if you all feel so strongly then sell up you cars and buy MG Rover products or TVR's and keep not only the work but any profit in the UK.

If the service is poor because the call centre is in another country complain same as you would if any other part of the service was poor but don't discriminate against a service going abroad when you want/own a foreign car from a foreign company and probably live in a house full of foreign company TV’s, video recorders and DVD players etc.

Personally I don't like the jobs going abroad but they are not great jobs in terms of earning money for the UK and you can't criticise the companies for going abroad when you already buy vast quantities of foreign goods showing that you like goods and services from abroad. If the service is poor and enough people complain then they will improve it but I have had loads of poor service from UK call centres so can’t see them as being a model of perfection which we would want to keep.