EvilBevel

Shame to see your name in black Diablo

DocJock

What EvilB said....

ex-webby

Cem

I don't see how I am defending JP? This is the cause of my confusion. You were suggesting I was stopping people from discussing this freely, and yet I'm working hard trying to allow just that. Where am I defending JP, apart from simply asking people not to post things that are illegal, or potentially libellous, etc?

ianmiller999

Please show me any place where I have tried to stop people boycotting PalmerSport. Or even where I have tried to protect anything apart from the legal standpoint of scoobynet.

In addition, I have already explained the difference between being banned ACTUALLY PURELY FOR "using freedom of speech", and being banned for making specific kinds of comments. The law is the law, any firm demands I have made, have been based around protecting scoobynet with the law, nothing else. I challenge you to find otherwise.

Re: Diablo and P20SPD no longer being moderators.

The cost of this thread has been far greater to scoobynet and this community than just the workload it has created.

Regards

Simon

ex-webby

PS. Theo..

You see why I just wanted to lock it now?

ianmiller999

Sorry Simon,

After giving this some though to day, I realised that the fact that members of this board have been banned because of there actions on the bored brings ScoobyNet and its sponsors into disrepute, whether or not they were right fully banned. And as the owner of ScoobyNet you have a responsibility to protect the integrity of this board as it could be damaging to the existence. Therefore I have edited my post and would like to appologies for accusing you of having an alteria motive.

Appologies

Ian

ex-webby

Huge respect Ian

Well done, and thank you so much for your gracious and dignified reply.

All the best

Simon

johnfelstead

Hi Simon,

The comments in my From location are factual. If JP decides he has made a mistake and apologises to me, then I will change the wording, until then I will leave it as it is.

Please look back through those threads, I have stayed to the point at all times, I have questioned JP on his logic and what he has written on this BBS and at no time have I made any untruthful statements.

I also wrote to a magazine, CCC, and my letter was published, in this letter I corrected a previously published article, one of the reasons I wrote was because it was stating the event was organised by Scoobynet, which wasn’t the case, I did your work for you. At the time I wrote to CCC magazine I was a moderator of scoobynet, at the time I wrote everything in the threads I was a moderator of scoobynet, I was always conscious of the responsibilities that brought with it and kept to the facts as a result (although I would anyway, its my style). I also did the work the SIDC should have done, and was thanked by the chairman of the SIDC at the time for doing so, for them to now just hold their hands up and say, tough, isn’t very fair or honourable.

I appreciate this thread staying open; I am still awaiting a response from Palmersport to the specific reason why I have been banned from their facility

wakeboardar

j palmer ooops ive said the demon words does that mean im banned from bedfordshire and would that be the whole of bedfordshire

by the way i thought he was a golfer

Fat Boy

Hi Ian S,

Yes, banned and on my third visit actually with the same car in the same exhaust specification; which passed before the noise limits were reduced during the day.Hope you enjoyed the few laps for the second, and last time, that you were able to come around there with me.

I'll just have to take my more than 85db and less than 87 db car, and my several hundred pounds a year trackday expenditure, elsewhere.

In my personal, and unemotional, opinion, Dr Palmer and some of his staff need to go on a customer relationship course. We all need to protect our businesses at times, but there are good ways of giving bad news and then there are poor ways of doing it.

I can't even be bothered to claim my champers for the following:



[Edited by Fat Boy - 12/7/2003 7:04:45 PM]

Blow Dog

Hi Simon,

I understand what you've said entirely - I also agree to it. Please don't think I'm trying to be a thorn in your side. At least not this time but I can't see how any of these discussions will have any negative impact on Snet or its sponsors.

Let's just hope JP has the sense to address these issues before they develop an unsavoury reputation.

Cem

johnfelstead

Thanks for removing my From statement in such a gracious manner.

ex-webby

Understood John

I didn't think it was a very big thing to ask, and I didn't think I was asking in anything other than a respectful and polite manner.

I find it dissapointing that you are not willing to respect my wishes on a facility provided free of charge to allow you to further your personal complaints.

I am sincerely hoping that you will consider the needs of everyone else that would like this thread to continue.

Regards

Simon

[Edited by webmaster - 12/7/2003 6:53:43 PM]

johnfelstead

It is not me that is being disrespectful here.

By your actions you have shown you were dictating that people had no choice but to change their profiles, you know and I know that was the case all along, so please don’t try and come the nice guy after kicking me in the bollox in such a cynical way.

I will in future and have respected your wishes in the past when they have been deserved, in this case you are showing a lack of respect for me.


[Edited by johnfelstead - 12/7/2003 7:07:51 PM]

ex-webby

Cem

We are clearly not communicating here. *I* cannot see how these discussions will have any negative impact on Snet or its sponsors either. This is why we are allowing them to continue.

The only time we are making requests is when the content of a post is either illegal or potentially libellous.

So what I am saying is... we are doing nothing whatsoever to stop these conversations, support JP, or anything else. We are simply supporting the community in discussing this situation.

Did you mistake something I said in a previous post to indicate otherwise?

All the best

Simon

one of the bedford 28

Simon why are you doing what you are doing to loyal members of this community. Iam afraid that it appears to me and (if they are honest) others that someone has an alteria motive here and talk about sensorship this is just a joke simon
Why are you stopping people from expressing there feelings Dont tell me they are breakin the law and that you will be liable.
Why have you lost 2 mods ask yourself the q i bet its cause they dont agree with what you are doin

How come no other mod is moderatong this thread is it because they too feel that maybe you have another agenda

Please stop deleting posts and comments that are not illegal that is so communistic do as i do and not as i say

ex-webby

"one of the bedford 28"

Firstly, we've been here before, so let's not repeat it.

Secondly, there are many of the moderators moderating this thread, they are simply not commenting.

Thirdly. "Loyal Members" are not people that simply refuse a humble and respectful request. It would hardly have killed anyone to change it, and it would have reduce a potential harm to us.

Fourthly. This discussion is hanging by a thread (excuse the pun) and will simply be locked if we cannot take every course of action necessary to ensure it stays factual, respectful and dignified.

The reasons behind the resignation of the 2 moderators mentioned had nothing to do with moderation of this thread. The reason are however private. There has been no falling out, and no ill feeling (certainly on my part, and I really hope not on theirs).

With regard to your last request, I and the scoobynet moderator team will continue to delete and moderate as we see fit, being in full command of the facts, the bigger picture surrounding issues of this type and the scoobynet policy and guidelines.

Please continue to use this thread for good intentions, as has been allowed so far, or would you rather we simply lock it? We (Scoobynet) are certainly taking a lot more flack than anyone else at present, and we have been working hard for you (Against initial judgement) by keeping it open for you all.

Regards

Simon

johnfelstead

Contradictory statements Simon, or am I missing something?

ianmiller999

Stop having ago at simon, he is providing a free service to you lot and if in his opinion such coments could be damaging to ScoobyNets reputation he has the right to protect the good image of ScoobyNet.



[Edited by ianmiller999 - 12/7/2003 7:22:26 PM]

johnfelstead

wow ian, thats a bit naughty.

Autocar

He is desperate for members

ex-webby

john

You're missing something.
This thread sparked off the final decision for the reasons, but the reasons were not the moderation of this thread. No more details will be released until all parties agree that they would like them to. I have way too much respect for them than to consider otherwise. (BTW. There is no big secret, I just feel the principle is important.)

Ian

Thanks for the sentiment, but the scoobynet guidelines forbid the plugging of other sites / services, etc.

All the best

Simon

johnfelstead

certainly looks that way autocar.

[Edited by johnfelstead - 12/7/2003 7:24:50 PM]

johnfelstead

OK Simon, you just wanted it to look like this was the reason then. Fair enough.

ianmiller999

Yes I am desperate for members, but this is taking the thread off topic so can we leave it at that.

Luke

More action here than in 3 weeks in nigeria !!! good stuff!!


If this does start to make the press again..it will bring scoobynet into the limelight again.... Ok I can understand Simon wanting to "dot the i's and cross the t's" but its starting to look like matron has got her nickers in a twist.


I have only met from the banned list Diesel (unless Sammyh is banned!!) and found them to be great guys . The rest are only known to me through this forum but are respected by me and many.. The likes of J.Banks and Steve lawsons (Not on the list)reputations here are well known. if they have been treated badly then it makes sense that others will want to help etc.

Good luck.

ex-webby

OK

Time for my personal take on this situation.

All of the following is "In My Humble Opinion". I have no evidence to back this up as I was not there and have no first hand knowledge of what happened, etc. Therefore anything here should be taken as simply opinion and should hold no weight in your future decisions about JP, or anything associated. I urge you to seek your own council and supporting evidence before making any judgements regarding anything on this thread, including this post.

- I feel that PS have dealt with this situation incredibly badly. I think they have let customers down, have insulted and alienated a highly supportive community of potentially thousands of track day enthusiasts. I believe they have used unprofessional methods to decide how to select the individuals that should be banned, and I feel that the process they used to ban them showed contempt for the individuals concerned. I also feel they have shown little understanding (through this isolated incident) of the way large internet communities work (this is not necessarily a failing, it is just an observation).

- I can COMPLETELY understand why JP would have felt insulted by many of the comments on the previous threads mentioned. Some of the comments were inmature, insulting, brainless attacks posted by people who clearly have a very different internet persona than they would employ in the real world, and are therefore simply not used to being that confident (evident in their writing style).

- I feel that the ScoobyNet image has been damaged and will consider (and be taking advice as to) whether this damage carries a financial value. I have no current intention of sueing or taking any further action.

- Having spoken to JP, I feel he does indeed understand that the vocal minority have spoilt it for the silent majority (as is so often the case). I believe he places importance on setting the record straight for those that have been wrongly banned, and would genuinely want to speak to anyone who feels this is the case. I am not sure whether he realises the importance of the very fact that one could consider it his task to do this pro-actively, rather than request that people contact him.

- PS have not put ANY pressure on scoobynet to stiffle or alter wording or conversation on this thread. Something that impresses me.

- Some of the people complaining in this thread should (in my opinion) take a closer look at the things they typed. Should consider whether they were justified, or fair. If they DO think they are justified and fair then their own judgement of this is WAY different to mine, and a good majority of the rest of the world, in which case, they should find it no surprise that JP's reaction is different to that which they would take themselves.

- It's JP's circuit, he can do what the hell he likes with it, and it's none of your, mine, or anyone's business.

- If you want an apology, insulting someone is not the way to get it. If you want a refund, follow the normal procedures, don't shout on a BBS. If you simply want to shout about it, do it legally whilst on this forum. If you don't want any of the above and simply don't want to go back, don't go back.

I hope you can see from the above that there has been absolutely no alterior motives around the moderation in this thread. THERE REALLY HASN'T. We just want to look after scoobynet, whilst looking after you as well.

All the best

Simon

Diesel

I was not going to get dragged into this (esp as I should be 'sinking' low voltage lights); I was happily saying a quiet ‘up yours too JP’after poor Pete had to send me that mail with a genuinely heavy heart, and was just trying to leave it at that. I’ve failed -

I was at the track.

I passed noise regs static

I passed them the last time too

I drove 6 laps and hammered my brand new disk & pads to bed them in

I let them cool down to ambient as requested on the pack

I passed noise regs dynamic (I was not bullied into letting an unknown & possibly uninsured drive it)

I drove 4 laps & was chucked off for excessive noise

I was purposefully ignored after I hung about for 40 minutes to discuss this situation with the track supervisor man to man; face to face. Real time.

I posted my comments/views on the long thread. I remained polite and hope I expressed my views judiciously and intelligibly. It is not my style to be insulting to anyone, particularly using this faceless media.

I received a refund for the wasted day – this partially covered my costs if not time. It implies I wasn’t being TOTALLY unreasonable about it all…

I have been put on the exclusion list.

I will not be going to future SIDC days @ Bedford, or any days at Bedford in lieu of a pro-active apology from the management. I will stubbornly not mail anyone there to kiss butt; I aint picking up his toys…

I support Pete/John/Phil in trying to keep Bedford as an option as it is ideal for novices and a good facility. I’m ok with being one of the ‘lambs’…

I really support Pete/Phil/John in trying to resurrect the trackday scene – it’s what I joined SIDC FOR after all; they are also doing it knowing the potential grief they will get…

Selfishly I wish no like minded performance car owner to go there again – we shouldn’t have been treated like this on the day and then, to add insult to injury, further punished by a contrived and online sourced ban.

I find it a bit sour for unaffected ‘colleagues’ to go back for more & thus create profit for someone who treated their BB friends rather badly. I am NOT an unreasonable person (thanks Lukem m8 ), and I’ll thump you if you disagree but I really am not. I will not be branded so by anyone from SN/SIDC/Palmersport. I was wronged and am now being wronged again. I’m the little guy being kicked about…

I think we as enthusiasts should stick together, especially as there are also greater challenges out there – Paddock makes men

In general. business’ run better by appeasing significant numbers of disgruntled customers – rather than banning or blaming them. Imagine if public transport banned whom they perceive as ‘whingers’!

I can almost hear the eggshells under my feet – hope that I didn’t leave a mess on your carpet Simon! I don’t envy your position but am appreciatively loyal to you and my ‘friend’ Scoobynet.

I have also just seen, and respect and agree with your last basic ‘common sense’ posting Simon – seems you are still one of us . Please don’t be made to bend over backwards for others to gain or maintain status though – the shake ups created and that you tolerate are generally a good thing!

The plebs count too & it is our right to defend ourselves using your fine vehicle whilst hopefully respecting your decency and objectivity wishes.

Christ! It’s like I’m on about gassing the Kurds or banging up Mandela – its REALLY NOT THAT SERIOUS. Repeat after me…

D

ianmiller999

That was a very good post in my honest opinion, and shows great maturity!

Luke

Ian

thankyou... I also think Simons and diesel wrote a goodun to.

ex-webby

Diesel

It's a times like this when I wish it wasn't a potential legal issue for me to appear to be condoning and supporting people's comments by saying what a fabulous post they have just made.

All the best, and thank you

Simon