Luke

Sounds to me as if some folk dont have a spine....


Good post this..me bored.."She"is fast asleep and its hot...

dba

is that aimed at me Luke?

Luke

DBa


no mate!!! not at all..

Luke

Thats funny...!!! I should answer..You better Fukking hope "it" isnt

Long story ....

[Edited by Luke - 12/5/2003 12:38:00 AM]

kazlo

strange how mr palmer has not posted 1 reply to this thread with 170 postings and 5,500 viewings ,is it genuine or not? only an observation,not a critisism

dba

ok for the record,i've received an email,which will obviously remain private



[Edited by dba - 12/5/2003 12:53:51 AM]

ian_sadler

I'm an SIDC member.
I was there on the day but no on track.
I was loud in my discust on s/n at the way the whole shamboilc day was run.
My user name is a bit of a give away.
I did have a scoob.

AND


I still didn't get banned.


Another feckin club I can't get into [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

edited due to poor grammer and evem poorer spolling

[Edited by ian_sadler - 12/5/2003 12:46:20 AM]

imlach

At the end of the day, Mr Palmer will be the one looking stupid from all this. He DOES have every right to do what he likes, as it is his private enterprise, but sounds like he is allegedly throwing the toys out the pram over this one.

I imagine he got annoyed by the Scoobynetters, and fair play to him, as he is the one running the commercial enterprise. It COULD backfire on him if someone on here decides to take things one step further.

I think Mr Palmer should really maintain a professional persona over this one, rather than making some rash decisions like this.

EVERY business gets pee-ed off by customers, but the customer is king, and he is treading a fine line by alienating some dedicated track-day attendees.

Risks a bad name for himself. Not anything ANY company would aspire to.

TaviaRS

Ian, or should I say George , how did I get banned and you didn't?

Maybe he just didn't like my loud "Scoob"

I wish that the mail had come from Palmersport or that Dr Palmer would post on here as to what the ban actually means in real terms, am I banned from corporate days (paid for by clients) or days there bought as a present?

letdown

I couldnt resist posting this. Jeez what on earth is the problem? You got banned! and??? cant see the big deal myself. I can guess that most people are over the age of 17....and I know a few who are lot older than that..........and what are you doing?? Having a tantrum! bet most were the sort who took there ball away at school !! boo hoo...!!

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

sorry chaps but I'm going to be the odd one out here and I am member of both scoobtnet and SIDC

I for one, enjoyed the day at Bedford but do really feel sorry for the ones who were excluded on the day and for anyone banned

If I'd been in the same posistion as JP, I'd have done exactly the same thing. With Council threatening him with closing his buisness down because of noise compliants. he had very few options

1) close the track and send everyone home which he'd had done with the Biker's

2) or lower limit's and do driveby noise reading and exclude the noisiest one to apease the Council and residents.

3) told the council and the Resisdence to F*ck off, I can do whatever I want to,"Try and stop me"

N0.1 Everyone unhappy

no.2 may be unfair, but it got the 90% out on the track

No 3 everyone would love to do but very futile

I found the staff there were very good and communicated quite well, although, I had not realised at the time the limit was lowered.

Tony

Ps at the moment I'm not banned and not kissing anyones butt to get on the track this is MY HUMBLE OPINION if right or wrong.

NotoriousREV

Tony,

I don't think the issue is as straightforward as that. If noise limits are set and advertised (presumably to appease the council and local residents in the first place) these should be stuck to and not changed on a whim.

If Bedford Autodrome (or any other circuit for that matter) NEED an 85dB limit as opposed to 87dB then this is the limit that should be advertised. (Remember, 87dB is almost twice as loud as 85dB)

Not that I was there or involved in the last thread, although I read it with great interest, I just beleive that the original problem was dealt with badly and now, just as we'd all forgotten about it, it's been dragged up by the business concerned. Madness, IMHO.

Dave T-S

You also have to remember the proximate cause of all this - the fog. Fog has a really peculiar effect on noise - you would think it dampens sound, it doesn't, it amplifies it. There were probably a freak set of circumstances in place that day that may well never be replicated, and given the circumstances PalmerSport had to do what was best at that time to preserve the business. I wasn't there so I cannot objectively comment on what has subsequently happened (nor do I want to), but of course hindsight is a wonderful thing

Diablo

Absolute class

Thanks for the email Pete, made me laugh.

So, "Diablo from Scotland" has been banned from Bedford SIDC days. Not that I'm an SIDC member in any event, so why email me?

OK, like I'm going to sign a disclaimer, or book a track day in my Screen Name..LOL....

Apparently *I* was banned for stating a bit of contract law regarding refunds. And saying it was unacceptable that Palmersport (or whoever runs Bedford) should not refund in full those who passed the "published" noise limits then failed the reduced limits.

And for stating that Mr Palmer had thrown his toys out of the pram .

Mr Palmer must be quite a sensitive chap to ban me for that.

Seems like a waste of everyones time, especially Pete's.

D

Old_Fart

I don't think Bedford *needs* the SIDC/scoobynet business, and the product is good enough to survive a few noisy scoobynetters..where else can you drive in such a risk-free enviornment? (Although I think Dono is much more *fun*)
Still, carry on with the self-righteous indignation if it makes you all feel better...I'm sure this thread is doing wonders for the scoobynet/sidc/Autodrome relations...any second now they'll see sense and invite us all back at discount prices. Of course no one wants to go there anymore because they've had their feelings hurt/or been offended by the way they've been treated...hmmmmmm personal feelings impacting decision making, how could that happen?
It's not really about what is right or wrong, it is about what *is*.
Rgds
Chuck

CraigH

Right, I've had an email in from Dr Palmer.....

"In agreeing to have the SIDC back at Bedford Autodrome, after they were banned for the year, we said that anyone who had made unjustifiably derogatory comments about the venue on the scoobynet web site after the previous event would not be welcome again - and presumably would not want to come.

I can only presume this included you, as CraigH. When we met I did not know this.

If you do not think you came in this category, I can certainly have the forum checked and see what you said"

This is from the horses mouth and I would guess is the reason that'd be sent to most others.

I don't agree with it, I think what "most" people said was fair given the circumstances - especially after the nature and tone of Dr Palmers posts,and dare I say it, his apparent indignance that nothing was done wrong by Bedford Autodrome on the day, but I have asked for clarification as to whether I am banned from all events including corporate as well as SIDC.

I would've thought this was an opportunity to learn from what's happened, rather than just ban everyone who raised some very pertinent issues :S

The naming issue as another matter. Quite how we've all been banned, as scoobynet members, by SIDC with no affiliation is beyond me - have they just abused their rights/knowledge of people and gone cap in hand to bedford with a list of all the perpetrators? I'd imagine Pete et al are quite happy to see people like myself and Dingy banned from SIDC events - which is strange as I'm no longer a member so how could I attend anyway......

Think that's just cause for another post. BRB

ex-webby

Craig

Well done being in contact with Mr Palmer.

This is very important for all those who were banned

My PERSONAL take on that email says that PalmerSport did not select the people that should be banned, and that the SIDC did.

Pete Croney told me specifically that PalmerSport selected the names.

It would be very helpful if you could reply to Mr Palmer and ask him if he would kind enough to categorically state which organisation selected the names of people to be banned.

I do believe this is a pivotal point in the whole discussion.

Regards

Simon

[Edited by webmaster - 12/5/2003 9:45:06 AM]

CraigH

Yep, I've replied and asked.

ex-webby

IMPORTANT

I've just received a copy of a fax from PalmerSport to SIDC where PalmerSport are stating a list of names which appear to match the names of people who are being banned.

Regards

Simon

CraigH

And I've just had a reply from Dr Palmer:

"I personally looked at every posting at the time, though I've obviously forgotten the detail now. One of my people created a "black list" based on an instruction from me. SIDC were not involved"

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

So now thats cleared up.

Can we clear up the next problem, as i see it.

How were those that are on the list, contacted when there email address is hiden from their profiles and are not members of SIDC or post on SIDC Forum?

Just to clarify

NOT a member of SIDC
NEVER been to Bedford
May have commented on the thread(s)
NOT been banned

Steven

ex-webby

Well done Craig

So now we know the very first little tiny piece of information confirmed from both sides.

A member of PalmerSport's team selected the list of names to be banned, based on directives from Mr Palmer. SIDC were not involved.

This means a few things.

1) JP DID NOT select the names himself
2) SIDC did NOT select the names
3) The person who DID select the names was acting on instructions

What this DOES NOT YET mean..

1) The people selected were the people JP wanted selecting
2) JP's instructions were followed to the letter
3) The person who selected the names FULLY understood the task he had been assigned to.

THIS is balance, and is the only way that this thread can continue to progress.

Regards

Simon

Pete Croney

I copied the fax to Simon, as until now I have been the only person with the information issued by Bedford.

The SIDC want to hold a track day at Bedford. We have held a lot of excellent days there and it was the favorite venue of many, myself included.

We had one disastrous day there, which was the culmination of a disastrous series of events and was capped by some freak weather conditions.

At a meeting between SIDC Committee members and JP, JP stated that he felt certain people had been abusive of his staff/his facility/himself and they would not be welcome back. I did not receive sight of this list until 2nd Dec (although it is dated the 3rd) and I mailed the people listed. I obtained their mail addresses from their Scoobynet profiles. I do not have access to the SIDC membership lists so could not cross reference who was a member and who was not, not that this was relevant as we are accepting bookings from non members.

I am surprised that some people are on the list and am surprised that some are not. But its not my list. I did advise people to contact Palmersport if they felt that their exclusion from the facility was not justified. I know that some have.

I hope that this event can rebuild some bridges at what was always a fantastic venue and we can put the past behind us.

ex-webby

I've just had a good conversation with Mr Palmer.

I've explained that I feel it is likely that some people have been unfairly lumped in to the category of the people who were abusive, rude, etc.

After discussing this for a while, JP felt it was important that the people who feel they have be unjustly treated in this, are good enough to email him to at jp@palmersport.com to give them an oportunity to review your case and apologise.

He is absolutely right in the sense that anyone (and there are definitely some if they are willing to accept it) were simply rude and insulting. Many stated they would never go back, so it seems odd that they would be so upset by the news that they were actually not welcome either.

but this bit is clear cut...

- Those that WOULD like to go back, and feel they have been unfairly lumped in with the minority that nearly spoilt it for the majority, please email jp to discuss.
- Those that DON'T want to go back, or are clearly not going to be welcome due to the way they conducted themselves in the original thread, and JP's response to that, should consider whether their actions on that thread and / or this one, have been valuable to them enough to cause such a big problem for everyone.

Regards

Simon

TVR Gary

Havent got the time to read the 17 million comments on here but it just goes to show that what is said on here can influence things outside of our little computer domain.....

I have seen a few times things like import cars slated because the full UK warranty is not available etc etc... It just goes to prove that what people say here can hurt and can cost people money and heartache....

Maybe its a lesson to us all.

imlach

At least some sensible discussion is now going on. Sounds like JP is being reasonable.

dingy

[Edited by dingy - 12/5/2003 2:19:52 PM]

dingy

[Edited by dingy - 12/5/2003 2:21:19 PM]

Luke

JP has the right to look after his business. But if he has taken money and part of the conditions of the booking was noise limits. If this is changed on the day you can understand people getting unhappy.They are excited. ready to have a good day..then told no. (Ok that bit might be out of his control). if a emergency meeting was held and all the facts explained... people been told they would get a refund if they could not meet the new Db levels etc. .Everyone would have been happy (Well maybe!!)


Its about customer care as well......

ex-webby

dingy

Why are you asking the scoobynet community those questions?

Email the people concerned as they are the only ones who can answer you.

If they DO NOT answer you, WE STILL CAN'T, so maybe take a look at yourself and try to work out why they haven't answered you. Maybe it's you tone in the emails you've sent? Maybe not? Maybe they are just ignorant? I have absolutely no idea whatsoever.

Either way, you are not going to get your answers here, so please continue to seek answers from those who are able to answer you.

Regards

Simon