douglasb

NACRO - I wasn't thinking of someone deliberately trying to cover their tracks. Just stating that if someone relocates and doesn't think of traces they could be leaving, they won't necessarily be starting with a clean slate.

Doug

NACRO

Well I have to admit I was thinking of a person with half a brain rather than someone who'd probably write to his debtors so they know where to send the bailiffs.

In the case of the topic poster he'd be starting afresh so I can't see the need for him to own up to anything. Or perhaps some of the debt professionals on here know different?

iDLe*

NACRO - get your credit file and have a look at what they know about you, then you'll realise! It only costs £2 and its well worth a look.

They know more than you can imagine!

NACRO

I've seen a copy of my credit file a few yrs ago- Consumer Credit Network or something- I think they've been replaced by someone else now. They knew sod all about me in reality-I couldn't see any details on there which you could use to trace a person who moved house/town.
Perhaps things have changed but there were certainly no details of NI or anything like that on there- just a list of companies who'd provided me with mortgages/cards/bank accounts. All of which would change if a person was avoiding debt.
I find this topic very interesting because the reality of the situation seems to vary depending on whom one is talking to. I still think that a determined debt avoider could get away with it easily wothout being guily of any offence.
An interesting aside- the wealthiest people I've ever met were serial debtors and disqualified company directors who'd been declared bankrupt at some stage in their lives.

Diablo

Nacro, the reality is that many get away with it.

But to do so, they have to lie on credit application forms, etc.

Thats fraud.

You'll generally find that the wealthy ones who have been made bankrupt before are the entrepreneurs. They are willing to go out on a limbm take risks. Sometimes it works (=wealth) sometimes it doesnt (=bankruptcy)

But they are in the minority.

It is difficult to trace people. But if you have a bad history, your name will show up, regardless of your current address.

You are then likely to be asked more searching questions. If you lie, thats your call.

But you will be waist deep in **** if you get caught - because that's not a civil matter, its a criminal one.

D

Scooby96

What about if you did something similar then moved out of the UK permanently but still had assets here?

NACRO

My point exactly-only a criminal (and an idiot) would actually lie to obtain credit, however if you aren't asked to disclose details that could link you back to a debt then only an idiot would volunteer such information.

Agree 100% about risk taking, the people I'm thinking of have done exactly that throughout their careers.

NACRO

96 your assets would be vulnerable- not worth the risk IMHO.

NACRO

quote: "It is difficult to trace people. But if you have a bad history, your name will show up, regardless of your current address."

How on earth can say J.Smith of address X be linked to J.Smith of address Y? Very interested to know how that's possible, as I say, AFAIK NI details are not available to private companies- I may however be wrong.

Luke

Nacro

I know a few like your mate... Its soooooooooo easy if you want to do it. Rent some small bedsits around the country. False names etc. pay all the bills including the council tax etc. Build up a good credit score. tell them you own the house.You are married and have kids and watch the credit roll in..... "Bobby" who now lives in Florida left this country with hundred of thousands of pounds... And he still has a good name and credit history with one bank should he come back..

They dont care

Brit_in_Japan

Think of all the information you have to give anytime to have to complete an application form for a back account, credit card, mobile phone agreement, mortgage. Name and date of birth narrow things down massively. How many Alan Jones' would be born on exactly the same day for instance ? For a mortgage you have to give proof of income, so they probably can get NI number from the info provided. And so it goes on...

NACRO

You forgot to add that the benefit system will pay for the rent on the bedsits..............

Actually the guy I know who does this owns quite a few properties of his own, how he keeps them I have no idea but I don't think anything he does is strictly illegal- surely intent would need to be proven for that to be the case? People can't help it if they go into debt, time and time again. Like I said what I can't work out is why people like him don't just get a proper job as they spend lots of time doing this and also a lot of ingenuity.
The credit system is set up to punish the honest and reward the dishonest- a bit like the rest of society really.
I think the key thing is for the topic starter to consider his options before maming himself known to his debtors.
One exception- a debt that MUST be paid is Council Tax, one of the very few debts that can land you in gaol for non-payment.

Luke

I am told that the UK is the best place in the world for commiting fraud.

Buy someones ID for £500.00 (Student, low life etc) and off you go.

NACRO

I agree that a mortgage debt could easily be pinpointed to a particular individual but the rest???? Not so sure. As others have said many people seem to get away with it.
If I was shafted like the topic starter I'd wait and see what happens. A gamble though, nevertheless

Dave P

I recently got turned down for credit so requested my credit files from Experian and I forget the other. Trust me they know EVERYTHING about you, they had details of every loan I ever had, credit cards I had applied for and mortgages. They had my bank account balance, my mortgage balance, my car loan balance. They had my monthly payments and the last payment I had made. Any payment that was late was noted and by how late it was.

I guess you will need a bank account and when you open one of those you have to give your address over the last 7 years. This I guess is why they always ask for your previous addresses so they can credit check you.

Of course you can lie, in which case I presume you commit a crime.

I would get your credit references and see what they say. Then I guess you have to deal with your creditors. I would imagine that even if the Bank has written off your debt, your name and address will be blacklisted.
I have no idea how to go about removal even if you settle the debt. Sadly you may find this a costly business.

My own opinion, for what it's worth, is that Banks should take a huge amount of resposnibility for the amount of debt many people find themselves in. Credit is so easy to get these days, and the banks do endless e-mails and snail mail drops that after a while it becomes difficult to resist.

Good luck.

Dave

Luke

Ok

lets look at it another way...

Just how much credit could you get in the next month?????

the moose

Luke

I've got no debt, around £500k equity in the house, zero overdraft, and no balance owing on my (one) credit card. On that basis, I reckon I'd be able to raise £250k in the next month if I needed to.

Thing is that I won't - the reason I'm OK financially is because I DON'T rack up debts, I drive old cars (ones I like, admittedly), I've got a reasonably frugal lifestyle overall. Which means I'll be able to retire at 55, as I always intended to do.

[Edited by the moose - 12/11/2003 12:57:13 PM]

Scooby96

Well I have 9 credit cards so if I wanted to max them out ans do a runner it would only be for £48k - however if I was planning and had the ***** to do it I'd sell up everyting here then do it a month before I left the UK for good.

Only thing is I dont think I could do it....

Scooby96

moose - 55

I'm aiming for 45

Goochie

Can't be bothered to read all this thread so it may be a bit SIAL, but - a copy of your credit file may be obtained for a £2 standard fee. No record of your request is recorded on the file.

3 companies deal with this, it may be worth contacting them all. They are:

Experian
Equifax
Callcredit

Either Experian or Equifax have an online system that costs a little more but allows you to see the info online.

Hope this helps.

Luke

Moose

i agree.debts are a killer... But the level of credit offered id mad.

Remember NEVER go above 70% of the cards limit.... starts flagging the system big time.

NACRO

Interesting question about how much credit one could get-
I reckon about 250K as well (without lying to the credit people) certainly nowhere near enough to make me consider getting it and p*ssing off to the sun.

As for the comments people have made about traceability- presumably for our post starter the last address was the USA- problem solved.

MattN

wow to be given a 500k house, nice. It's alright for some!

NACRO

No doubt its only a 500K house because the UK property market is massively inflated at the moment- another topic I know but anyone remember the last time we had a "south sea bubble" like this one?

I do, some of my close friends flogged their Internet companies to greedy venture capitalists and are still living on the proceeds today. Slightly different with the housing market I know but this madness has to end sometime soon.

chaos.

This is an interesting thread.. If I had no friends or connections around here Id be off. You would really need to screw them big time to make it worth your while and leaving the mess behind. What is considered as a worthwhile amount?

Ive just applied for a few platinum credit cards, so I may have to leave the country anyway


cha0s[already in debt]

Diablo

Personal credit is not the way to go for the big bucks.

I could tell you what is (and how to get away with it), but then I'd have to kill you

D

NACRO

quote: "What is considered as a worthwhile amount?"

Double the UK's average wage then multiply by 6 (number of yrs you would be bankrupt) then add on a couple of yrs to be on the safe side.
When you add it all up not worth it IMHO but if I was on the dole or similar then it would be my next career move.

edited to add: of course you could set up a company(ies) which is what I presume diablo is referring to and get many times the cash- all dodgy though.

[Edited by NACRO - 12/11/2003 2:11:46 PM]
edited again due to finger trouble!

[Edited by NACRO - 12/11/2003 2:12:10 PM]

Diablo

Nacro, bankruptcy is 3 years..



[Edited by Diablo - 12/11/2003 2:15:22 PM]

chaos.

b/sh*t

chaos.

[Edited by chaos. - 12/11/2003 3:05:23 PM]

the moose

Nacro,

I never said it was a £500k house, now did I? And I've factored in a significant level of discount on the claimed selling prices. I still can't see them falling significantly, btw; I'd say we're at an inflection point and we'll see them rise again quite sharply in 18 months time once the US economy picks up a bit more.

As for pissing off to the sun for £250k - exactly how long would that last?