Me again!

Just had a look at the on-line booking form PI@@-TAK@@@ BARS@@@@S!

O.K. so it's £15 for a day pass, does this mean that we still have to pay for parking when we get there or what?

If that's the case then it'll probably work out the same price as last year! at £7 - £8 for parking per stage! if not then they're having a laugh! PARKING ON TOP OF ENTRANCE!

James

 

My email to MSA...

I have heard a farcical suggestion that you are making this years ‘Rally of Great Britain’ an all ticket affair. This has surely got to be a joke. No one in their right mind would try to restrict and dissuade attendance at the largest motorsport event in the country. Please confirm to me that your organisation has not lost all rational and common sense by ‘Doing a Bernie’ and doing your best to ruin the event even more than you have done by turning the ‘Rally of Great Britain’ into the ‘Rally of a small part of Wales’. Whilst I am on this subject - why have you turned the once world respected, feared and pinnacle of Rallying - the 4/5 day Lombard RAC Rally, into a pansy little event, that struggles to maintain world championship status? Can I suggest you change the management of your organisation, and recruit a management team who actually enjoy the sport of rallying.

Their response....

Actually, nobody in their right mind would allow a situation in which one million people were able to watch the largest motorsport event in the country for free, and brought most of south Wales to a halt in the process, forcing the organisers to pay money - contributed not by the spectators, but by the participants! - to the police to sort it all out.
Anyway, I would be grateful if you would read the below, which explains why we have ended up running a “pansy little event” (I know what you mean: I competed on many RAC Rallies in the 60s, 70s and 80s and even did the 68 Gulf London, which made the RAC look like a pansy event even then, but the world moves on).
To start at the beginning, the Motor Sports Association (MSA) is the governing body of motor sport in the UK, which means that we are the UK member club of the international governing body, the Federation Internationale de l’Automobile (FIA).
Our main purpose in life is to licence UK competitors for higher-status events (around half of UK motor sport events take place with no requirement for licences, so those competitors receive our services at no cost). We also issue permits for about 5,000 events each year; without a permit, an event would carry no insurance for officials, participants or third parties. We are also the body chosen by HM Government to authorise events on the public highway.
Those, then, are our core activities. In order to provide our services at the lowest possible cost, we benefit from two ‘outside’ income streams: interest on money in the bank and revenue from organising events and championships.
None of the events organised by the MSA has a god-given right to exist. If the event does not make money (or at least offer the promise of making money at some future date), we cannot continue to run that event. After all, our customers - the competition licence holders and the affiliated motor clubs - would not take kindly to the idea of subsidising the British Grand Prix, the Touring Car Championship or the Network Q Rally of Great Britain!
Contrary to popular belief, the vast majority of our income from the Network Q Rally comes not from over-charging spectators or even from ripping off competitors, but from our sponsors.
Those sponsors are not involved in the Rally for charitable purposes. Overwhelmingly, what they seek is coverage on TV and in the national media. Without that coverage, the sponsors would walk away and we would have to charge spectators and competitors even more.
The media cover the event mainly because it is a round of the FIA World Rally Championship. If you do not believe that, just ask yourself whatever happened to Rallye Quebec, the Bandama Rally, the Press on Regardless or the Alpine Rally, each of which lost FIA status and sunk without trace. (Much the same tends to happen at national level: the modern versions of the Seven Dales Rally and the Circuit or Ireland cannot really be compared with the same events when they were rounds of the British Championship and thus appeared on TV).
Once you accept the idea that being part of the FIA World Rally Championship is fundamental to the continuing success of the Network Q Rally, many aspects of the event cease to be negotiable. The compact route with every overnight halt in the same town, the relatively low competitive stage mileage, the service arrangements, even the Sunday finish are all laid down by the FIA; if we abandon those, we cannot be part of the championship.
We cannot blame the FIA for the fact that the Rally does not use Kielder Forest: that, too, was a matter of economics. Cardiff wanted the Rally and made us an excellent offer;
Newcastle (from where I guess you could easily run a World Championship Rally in Kielder) did not make a serious bid.

Best regards,
Colin Wilson,
The Motor Sports Association.


He ought to be a politician!!

 

John

Thanks for the "heads up". I just ordered a couple of event passes. Hopefully i will actually get them

Richard

 

We had a mission never to pay for anything on the RAC back in the 80's ( well not stage entrance fees anyway )just used to drive straight past the hapless spotty kid collecting money 4 or 5 cars in convoy . you can't do that sort of thing now ...ai and do ya remember when Rio by Duran Duran was in the charts ....those were the days ....

Bug***s
Ian

 

my corespondence to date. Rearange this sentence. In head put sand!

Thankyou for your reply Colin, however you are so wrong on this policy!
If you choose to bury your head in the sand and wait for the chaos to unfold
in November, then so be it!
Rallying is not as controllable from a spectator point of view as racing.
There will be massive problems with unticketed spectators in November. I
predict absolute chaos on the roads near the stages.
I do a great deal to support motorsport in the UK giving my time freely to
support active race and rally crews and Marshall on events. I even compete
myself on occasion in sprints and rallies.
Please rethink this policy, 250,000 tickets for an event attracting well
over 1 million people is heading for disaster.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Colin Wilson" <msa_media@compuserve.com>
To: "John Felstead" <john.felstead@btinternet.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 11:20 AM
Subject: All ticket rally GB fiasco


-------------------- Begin Original Message ------------------

you want to know what people are thinking about your policies
on an all ticket rally GB.
I suggest you take a look at some of the motoring bulletin
boards on the web.
You guys are in for a backlash on this.
I hope you rethink this absurd policy before it is to late!
This is a link to the Impreza owners web site

 

I know several people who were at Hillsborough, my brother included. The mismanagement by the police is not questioned, but they were put in that situation by people turning up without tickets and trying to gain access to the ground. The point I'm trying to make is that if people turn up en masse, then the police will (either by incompetence or by insufficent resources) be unable to handle the situation again, possibly with dire consequences.

I' m sorry, but I have to agree with Colin WIlson, you do not have a God given right to watch this event, any more than you have a God given right to turn up at Covent Garden without a ticket for the Three Tenors!

The only issue I can see is that they have not issued enough tickets, not that they have made it a ticket event. Also, it needs to be publicised correctly, or people will turn up expecting to see the rally in the usual way, and that will be chaos.

Alternatively, move the rally back to its old format, but lose the TV coverage, the works teams, and watch a bunch of Skodas and Novas pootle round.

 

Am I to assume then the Police will be having road blocks at the welsh borders and only allowing cars with the "relevant" screen stickers ?????? and tourists and locals ..... me thinks not ..... all the spectators who go every year will still go this year ticket or no ticket, they will still snarl-up the small inadequate roads to the best stages. I wonder how the welsh police are going to tackle the huge crowds not just from the UK ????? and will they be overwhelmed, i think so .... it's just gonna be total mayhem.
I

I'm not keen on spending good money on a ticket to view all stages and only get to a couple due to traffic ..... think again MSA you still have a month or two to re-organise I suggest you have a major re-think !!!! or have the majority of the UK's rally spectators on yer back wanting their cash back for not been able to spectate .....

K

 

Hmm
well the point here that I see is that we (well the gods of motorsport in this country) have totally lost the ability to organise decent motorsport OF ANY KIND in this country . . . we used to be good at it once upon a time!

EXAMPLE:
My last visit to Silverstone for GP was 3 years ago on practice day ONLY (family pressure!) Well the organisers & police had jointly introduced a new one-way system and brilliant it wasn't. We set off at 5:30 and spend 3 hours in a queue into the ONE car park they were bunging everyone into - eventually we sneaked past plod, round the circuit to an almost empty car park NW side of circuit (so quiet the guys on the gate were sunbathing). Got in at lunchtime - saw timed practice only.
Was it well worth my ticket money? NUP
Never again thank you!

Anyway I agree with comments above - it will be complete & utter chaos in November, blocked roads, illegally parked cars, blocked farm entrances etc. Hey! the rally might even make the national news! Bet the locals will be so pissed off that they make sure it never runs in south Wales again!

What also stumps me is the MSA fascination with media coverage . . . in reality this means almost nothing on TV, the press coverage is in specialist publications read by, yes you guessed, rally spectators!
But of course according to Colin Wilson we don't count guys do we? Because we don't contribute £££. Really?
Aha! actually when you think about it . . . it's obvious really that the works teams would still spend millions to do it if there were no spectators at all isn't it MR WILSON?
GET A GRIP AND /OR A REALITY CHECK PLEASE

Well you "experts" have killed G.Prix off completely as a race. All the major discussions are now around which pit crew is the best . . . (check out the last 2 GP!!)
They'll be giving the pit crew the champagne next.
Don't laugh.
It will happen.
Just wait & see.

End of era boys & girls.
They've killed the very best Rally in whole world.

R.I.P.

Still I have my memories, videos, pictures of when it was challenge for drivers not a nice little jolly for the MSA.


Me, I'm gonna spend my money & go to Le Mans (now who runs that event?)
Oh & of course more money for toys on my Scoob.

Paul

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>just ask yourself whatever happened to Rallye Quebec, the Bandama Rally, the Press on Regardless or the Alpine Rally, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just a small point for Mr Wilson.. The Press on Regardless Rally is still going strong here in the States..

Don't you hate it when "politicians" get their facts wrong but press on regardless.

Richard

 

Richard,
That may be true, but is it now, or is it likely to become a round of the WRC?

No, I didn't think so.

It's probably an excellent rally to watch, but ain't WRC.

Geezer

 

Geezer..

My point was that said Mr Wilson stated that those events had "sunk without trace".

The POR hasn't.

In fact SCCA Prorallies here in the States now include classes for FIA Grp A and Grp N cars.

Anyway! I'm off for a coffee.

Richard

 

And I'm off for a long weekend

 

the interesting bit of the reply from Colin Marshall I have put below, notice he didn't comment on a money back possibility for unused tickets.

To discover why we have "shrunk the event", the below might be
of interest. Re the marshalling, I think offering those who
marshal some kind of deal on spectator tickets is a bloody
good idea - I will propose it to the bean counters today.

 

"bean counters" says it all doesn't it?

Clearly motorsport is no longer on the agenda, just money. <sigh>

We're wasting our breath here, unless of course they lost their sponsor . . . that where we should vent our anger - they might actually care about their public image? What do you guys think?

Paul

 

here is my latest correspondance with Mr Collin Wilson, it gets better and better doesn't it? NOT!!!!!!!!
************************************************** *******************


Colin,

How can you say you are going to limit the numbers on a per stage basis when
the majority of people who purchase tickets will take either the day pass or
the full event pass?

Does this mean that if you purchase a full event pass you may still not get
access to the stages because they are full?

If this does occur, how do you feel people who have paid a large sum of
money are going to react to this?

To say a comment like "If your predictions are well founded, you get to feel
smug and we get egg on our face..." shows me how you totally misunderstand
my motivation in questioning this policy. There will be no one more upset
than myself should this years event turn into a fiasco. The people who know
me personally know how much effort I put into making motorsport happen in
the UK.

You are now stating that only 200,000 people actually enter the forests.
This is a bizarre statement to come from an organisation that repeatedly
states how the Network Q rally GB is Britain's biggest sporting event. Why
if this were true would Motoring News state that last year approx. 1.5
million spectators attended the rally?

Your reply makes me realise just how out of touch the MSA is on this issue.

Have you consulted with the local farmers on this policy, as traditionally
they set-up their own private car parks to cater for spectators?

How do you plan to publicise that you are limiting numbers on the stages to
the general public who do not read the specialist press?

How do you plan to keep the roads clear for people with the relevant passes?

I am now very concerned you simply don't know what you are dealing with! I
wish you good luck in pressing forward with this policy as you seem to have
closed the issue. You are going to need it!

Regards
John Felstead


----- Original Message -----
From: "Colin Wilson" <msa_mail@compuserve.com>
To: "John Felstead" <john.felstead@btinternet.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2000 10:14 AM
Subject: Re: All ticket rally GB fiasco


-------------------- Begin Original Message ------------------

Thankyou for your reply Colin, however you are so wrong on
this policy! If you choose to bury your head in the sand and
wait for the chaos to unfold in November, then so be it!
Rallying is not as controllable from a spectator point of view
as racing. There will be massive problems with unticketed
spectators in November. I predict absolute chaos on the roads
near the stages. I do a great deal to support motorsport in
the UK giving my time freely to support active race and rally
crews and Marshall on events. I even compete myself on
occasion in sprints and rallies. Please rethink this policy,
250,000 tickets for an event attracting well over 1 million
people is heading for disaster.

-------------------- End Original Message --------------------

OK, we are not going to get anywhere with this corrrespondence
because you are totally sure we are wrong and we are going to
give it a try anyway! If your predictions are well founded,
you get to feel smug and we get egg on our face...

A few points, however. There is no evidence at all that one
million spectators have ever gone into the forests on the
Rally of Great Britain. Based on car park returns from last
year, the maximum number in cars which paid to park was about
100,000; if we double that to allow for those too mean to part
with a fiver, it still only comes to 200,000 - and some of
those must be people being counted twice.

Having said that, the figure of 250,000 tickets - which I
accept has been widely published - did not come from MSA and
has no basis in reality at all. What we have said all along is
that we will limit numbers at each stage according to what that
stage will bear (taking account of access roads, car parking,
type of terrain, etc). Some venues will sell out at only a few
thousand, others can take 20,000 or more. The 250,000 figure is
just some media man's guess.

Best regards,
Colin Wilson,
Motor Sports Association UK.

ends

 

Just who are the MSA doing this for? Certainly not the UK public, nor the many people who cough up every year so they can enter club rallies etc. They are doing it for themselves. It is their wallets that are bulging with sponsors money with no benefit to rallying.

Good god men, we can't have the unwashed masses actually turning up at the rally. Keep the beggars out, this is our little toy and no one else but us is allowed to play with it.

The arrogant pratts don't care...

Ken

 

So how do you get on the MSA then?

They are surely not rally fans if they can dream up a crackpot policy like this!

JUST IMAGINE THE CHAOS AT SWEETLAMB WHEN 200,000 PAID UP PASS HOLDERS TRY TO GET INTO THE SAME STAGE

(Sorry to shout but I think it's needed!)

 

OK guys, just got my Motoring News and it seems the general readership is as outraged as us about this.

They have printed my email i sent to them and quote my statement about the likelyhood of a riot taking place.

Is this going to change the MSA's mind? Of course it won't!

As one reader put it "lets become ramblers and roam our countryside, its our right"

I still haven't recieved a reply to my questions put in the last mail i posted up, maybe they dont have any answers!

 

Aaah

The Rally of the Vale of Neath will never be the same

Richard

Having erm bought my "passes" it would be nice to see them come to fruition

 

richard, what the hell are you doing up at this time in the night, get some sleep man

 

OK, latest corespondance!

Make your own conclusions from this, looks like we are heading for heavy police presence.

Like to see the maths on the stage access, do mathematicians know how we choose our particular stage's to watch on?

As farmers will be setting up there own car parks, how is this policy going to reduce spectator numbers which is the aim of the policy isn't it? or is it, as some people suggest purely a money making exercise!

************************************************** ****************************************

Sorry for the slow reply, but I was a bit tied up last week
and have only started working my emails today...


You wrote:
How can you say you are going to limit the numbers on a per
stage basis when the majority of people who purchase tickets
will take either the day pass or the full event pass?
Does this mean that if you purchase a full event pass you may
still not get access to the stages because they are full?
If this does occur, how do you feel people who have paid a
large sum of money are going to react to this?

Answer:
Apparently, clever maths can solve this (which is why we
decided to use a professional ticketing company rather than
do it ourselves). I'm only the press officer and nothing to
do with the actual organising, so I will have to take their
word for this; let's all hope they are right...

You wrote:
To say a comment like "If your predictions are well founded,
you get to feel smug and we get egg on our face..." shows me
how you totally misunderstand my motivation in questioning
this policy. There will be no one more upset than myself
should this years event turn into a fiasco. The people who
know me personally know how much effort I put into making
motorsport happen in the UK.

Answer:
I did not mean to insult you personally. If I did, then I
apologize. It is clear to me that we all want the same
result, but that some of us are more confident than others.

You wrote:
You are now stating that only 200,000 people actually enter
the forests. This is a bizarre statement to come from an
organisation that repeatedly states how the Network Q rally
GB is Britain's biggest sporting event. Why if this were true
would Motoring News state that last year approx. 1.5 million
spectators attended the rally?
Your reply makes me realise just how out of touch the MSA is
on this issue.

Answer:
Actually, it's Motoring News who are out of touch. The MSA
has never claimed that 1.5 million people went into the
forests to watch the rally. When we ran the good old five-
day RAC Rallies, we reckoned that two million people saw the
cars pass somewhere - that included all the people at the
start and finish, watching from motorway bridges and lining
the streets in town centres (remember, we used to have town
centre passage controls just so that people could see the
cars without trekking into the woods). With the much reduced
modern rally, we claimed one million on the same basis, based
only on figures from WRTA (the teams organisation). Just to be
clear, I repeat: we never claimed that more than 200,000
people paid to watch in the woods.

You wrote:
Have you consulted with the local farmers on this policy, as
traditionally they set-up their own private car parks to cater
for spectators?

Answer:
Yes. If they want to run car parks and charge for them, that
will be a matter for them (just as it is at Silverstone for the
Grand Prix); like the GP, however, all our car parks will be
free of charge.

You wrote:
How do you plan to publicise that you are limiting numbers on
the stages to the general public who do not read the specialist
press?

Answer:
Newspapers, local and national radio, television - all the usual
outlets. I am sure we will not reach everyone in year one, but
we will do our very best.

You wrote:
How do you plan to keep the roads clear for people with the
relevant passes?

Answer:
We will pay for extra police as required.

You wrote:
I am now very concerned you simply don't know what you are
dealing with! I wish you good luck in pressing forward with
this policy as you seem to have closed the issue. You are going
to need it!

Answer:
We have not closed our minds to the potential problems, but we
have made the decision to go all ticket. Like any major change,
we will certainly encounter unforseen difficulties, we may
even make a few ****-ups of our own, but we will make it work
in the end, because we have to make it work.

Best regards,
Colin Wilson,
Motor Sports Association UK.

ends

 

The people that should be really rubbing their hands together should be the Motor Clubs that marshall stages. I can imagine they will be inundated with volunteers, providing that marshalls are not expected to pay for their days work.

This might be the best way to watch this year!!