mj

..quite fankly I am getting a bit sick of the smell of coffe, tis not nice knowing you have been bent over & ....

mj

As an aside I recently helped another mate in a kitchen refurb - between us we did everything bar fit the new kitchen as this was part of his deal... we agreed a price of £300 ish for my part - electrics, plumbing,studding,boarding etc...

...now The only thing I asked may other *mate* to do was to help me with the final skimming. I was working roughly on a figure of £40 a day for my kitchen mate ( I know I'm a slag ). £40 a day was not enough though for my *mate* , he wouldn't do it for less than £60 - and it was my job !


... The more I think about it the more my bottom hurts..

adpd

In my opinion, a true mate would help without thought.

Money is such an ugly thing; it gets in the way of many a good friendship (women are the other obstacle).

Forget how much moeny your friend made from the house sale for a minute.

Look at the time you put in - did you spend it in the company of your "friend"? Did the two of you have many a good laugh? Did you enjoy the work you were doing with/for him?

If one of my good friends asked me for help in any way, I would be ashamed if I didn't help, or be frustrated if I couldn't help.

Money could be clouding your judgement.

On the other hand - if he bought the house with the intention of doing it up (with your tools, help and advice) and then selling it for a healthy profit - that is a bit of a selfish thing to do... and then giving you £200 for all of your hard work (even if it is the thought that counts)... that is not a true friend.

Only you know the minor details of the situation that determine whether this "friend" has been a bit selfish, or if he has just profited from a bit of good fortune in the property market (and from your good nature).

If he had made no money... would you still feel the same? If he had broken even from the transaction... would you still want a wage from the work you did?

Just some food for thought (all things you have probably considered yourself).

davegtt

mate I aint heard all the replies just read your original post BUT from the first house it sounds like he took advantage but being mates n all that £200 is OK Id accept it but now he wants u to give him a hand with the second 1 just turn round and say look mate u just made 36k outta my labouring if u want me to help you do something similar witha second project I'd like a nice cut of say 35% of profit or something along them lines and geta lil contract drawn up. mite be worth doing mite not be worth doing. what you think?

I'll trowel through the replies now

davegtt

adpd, I agree a true mate would help out no matter, and he did. MJ helped out where he could to get this guys house sorted to live in and then when he goes and sells for 36k profit then gives him £200 thats a bit of an insult tbh. its the fact his mate didnt seem overly grateful on the first house then expects his friend to help him out for a second time.... thats what would annoy me....

personally Id just say most of my tools are half knackered now from all the work on the last house make sure hes gonna buy his own tools otherwise hes just using you

mj

adpd, some very good points,

everything you have written above rings 100% true.



..possibly..., I hope not, I would like to think I am not that money driven. I think its more a principle thing.


...this I don't know, if this were true I would be gutted. I was under the impression the house was his home to be as we went the extra mile on the job, so to speak.




I would like to think the latter is true......



if,if,if.......If my auntie had boll0cks, she'd be my uncle.............its the fact that he has done so ******* well, then offered me such a piffling "thank you" that is getting my goat - then to top it all starts demanding my services all over again - and for £30 a day WTF!!

again, thanks all for the response

edit to read more clearly..


[Edited by mj - 1/6/2004 3:43:40 PM]

adpd

Those dreaded "ifs"!

£30 a day is a pitance to a skilled person - but your "friend" may think that that is a fair price.

Maybe (those dreaded "maybes") he doesn't realise that you do have better things to do.

I don't know him as a person... you probably do (or think you do).

Is he taking advantage of you (knowingly), or is he blinded by the money that he doesn't realise how selfish he is being.

Only by talking to him will you be able to get a better understanding on how he is thinking (or calculating).

Talking may not be the easiest thing, but it will probably be best for the situation. Better than sitting at home feeling bitter about it, or cheesed off at him.

mj

I sincerley hope that he has not knowingly shafted me - There is no doubt though that he is the tightest man in Britain, and is well known for it.

If he has taken me for a ride then so be it, I will put t down to experience - I will have it out with him tonight and judge his response.

Nelson15

I would say to him that you thought you were doing him a favour, rather than helping him make a quick buck, and that you are a bit cheesed off, but willing to let it go (I presume you are!). But this time tell him that he would have to pay a bit more, because you're fed up.

If he's a good mate then he'll understand. If he cuts up rough then maybe it says something about you're friendship.

Gidney&Knowlesy

Ask him to get a quote from a builder.....when he finds out how much it is offer to do it at half that.................

You'll make a killing...

mj

This is along my line of thought.... I will suggest that I did the work for him as a mate - not as a money making scheme.

I will suggest to him that I am not prepared to do any more work unless he shows his appreciation from his last windfall.

What do I have to lose? ....at least I will know what kind of mate he is.

cheers guys.

mattstant

Surely thats grapist

adpd

Or, take a different route... offering to go into business with him (business and friends... a whole different discussion I think).

That way, you become his partner (no sleeping together though ) and can both enjoy the fruits of your hard, sweaty work.

Or you could just ask him to show you his appreciation from his previous windfall, but that might sound like you are very money-orientated and don't care about your friendship.

I am sure you will be able to approach the discussion in a manner that doesn't portray this... but just try to imagine how it will sound to your "friend".

Luke

adpd:

Thats the best idea.

MJ: try it .

adpd

Dangerous question to ask!!!

mj

The way I see it it will go one of 2 ways...

He will throw a wobbler, call me all manner of names and tell me to feckoff. He loses a mate & a helping hand.

or

he will realise what a tight git he has been and cross my palm with some folding...


we will see

skiddus_markus

Suggest you both do it on an equal basis-ie split the profit.He has now got some money to put into it and you have the skills.

Mark Miwurdz

I've been through this already. Tell him that you feel exploited and if he wants your help, things need to be done on a more equitable basis. If your 'mate' won't agree to this, then he's not worth knowing, I'm afraid.

Best of luck.

Cheers
Kav

Tiggs

just tell him your busy?

"can you help me"

"no mate, im busy"

prob solved.

T

RON

As an aside to all this, I'm self employed as a general dogs body, at the moment doing some building type work, for a friends business, he's paying me £10 an hr, I'm happy with that, but what are others opinions???
As another aside, the insurance on the scoob will be up soon, and I can't decide wether I should keep it or flog it, had it from new (my00) and don't really want to sell it, but this work is very temporary, last year I only earnt abot 4.5k all year!! so you can see my dilema!!

Ron.


PS, starting another job on a 'mates' house soon, he know's he's gonna pay me £70 a day, and it's only 200yds from home, hence no travelling costs!

mj

was that just cash jobs???, or work type work (as in regular TAX type work )?

If that was your yearly income, I'm off to buy a 22B.

RON

Thats was my full income for the year, but I was building my own house at the same time!!
I don't do 'cash' jobs, it just ain't worth the agro!

SPEN555

If he is offering the £30 per day you turn round to him and say why would i want to work for £30 per day when I can get (your market rate per day)? Bit of a no brainer that one.

One other point you are missing here is who risked shelling out the £62k? At the end of the day he is entitled to ALL of the profit as he took all the risks. You should be entitled to a market rate for your efforts though but none of the profits if you follow my chain of thought.

All IMHO of course.

Damian.

Scoobydid

Any news mj? Hope no one ended up in hospital or the cop shop

The Zohan

£30.00 is not even labourers wages around here, Just because it is a mate does not give them the right to take the mickey, far from it a good mate would not IMHO.

What happens if you get offered full wages elsewhere and could not get you you do the work, he would have go to someone else and get them at full pay or there abouts.

Helping out mates is all well and good and i am all for it.

It sounds like your mate wants cheap labour to save him money on a money making project so does not really fall into what i class as helping out a mate unless they where seriously strapped for cash or in the S**t which this does not appear to be the case.

£ 30.00 per day is taking the mick - proper mates do not take advantage of each other like this.

IMHO of course

[Edited by Paul Habgood - 1/7/2004 11:27:52 AM]

CupraT

My best mate is a joiner/builder who always offers to do jobs for free or at mates rates (around 1/2 price).
I always thank him then pay him his usual hourly rate. If he is working cheap for me he is losing money elsewhere and this is not fair IMO.

Whilst this costs me money I do get someone reliable doing the job who can be trusted with keys etc for the house. More importantly it casuses no problems with our friendship.