Adam M

the hy/low kit is when ypou have an H4 bulb which would normally have two filaments one for dip beam and one for main beam.

The design is apparently very old and full of compromises.

Better cars these days have separate bulbs for main and dipped beams.

No road going standard cars have HID main beams, but you can get additional HID driving lights.

Anyway, people with only H4 bulbs in the car, when they previously fitted H4s, lost the use of main beam, then these were brought out so that this would not be the case.

Since normal headlights had two filaments in different places, the HIDs had to achieve moving the light source, as the reflectors work by focusing light produced in two different places, the actual power difference between them is not very much, its just the focues. One points dwn, the other forwards.

Anyway, in the hy/low, the movement of the arc is achieved by having an outer shroud or metal umbrella which is mechanically moved. In so doing, the discharge arc, arcs between two different bulbs and insoding becomes the focal point at a different part of the bulb unit, and the lamp lens, thereby focusing the light for main beam use instead of dip beam.

It isn't ideal, but it does give improved light for dip and main beam.

Ideally the H4s should be comverted to just dip beam H4s and the main beam feature moved to a different dedicated lamp unit such as is the case with the morettes.

I will not do this on my car as I think they ruin the look.

Hope this answers any questions.

markwild

Just to expand a little on Adam's comment:

The classic Impreza uses H4 bulbs - in effect, one bulb gives dip and main beam, via 2 filaments in the bulb.

The new look, or a car fitted with morrette, have seperate main and dip headlamp, so have seperate bulbs.

The latter are like yours, and can have HIDs fitted in the dip units, without affecting the main beam - this is the ideal solution.

My car has the H4 type single headlamp bulb. Therefore, I've fitted it with the Hy/Lo kit, which allows a single bulb to act as the dip, with a moving cover, which blocks the light from the upper part of the bulb. This cover moves when main beam is selected and gives a 'slightly' better light, i.e. main beam.

I've not used the scoobysport kit, as they didn't do a Hy/Lo, but they (scoobysport) have a good reputation on here....

The phone number you need at autolamps is 01244 881961, which is in Chester.

Hope this helps, and feel free to ask away if it doesn't,

Mark

Adam M

Mark,

can you expand on "slightly" better light.

I have not fitted the kit yet as it has not arrived but I am keen to know your impressions of it which is why I started the thread in the first place.

do you have 4100 or 6000?, and now that you have it installed, has it lived up to your expectations?

btw, the moving umbrella alters the electric field and insodoing actually causes the arc to follow a different path which is closer to that of the second filament in the standard H4 bulb.

markwild

sorry, might have been mis-leading there....

Once I'd fitted the kit (I'll be doing full instructions on my web page soon) (I extended the earth and live feed to the kit, so I could fit it to the O/S of the engine bay-more room!), I went for a drive

Unfortunately, I only went in semi-lit areas and you soon realise that headlamps don't compete with streetlights.....

However, last night I realised that the headlamps (on dip) were pointing down too much, so I parked near a wall on a local industrial estate and manually adjusted the lights until the horizontal cut-off was about level with the headlamp unit....

I then went for a drive, including country lanes..

WOW - The lights are easily as bright and clear as my uprated (phillips vision plus) bulbs were on main beam, (i.e. HIDs on DIP=phillips on main), BUT no-one coming the other way flashed me, so the aim must be OK...

The light is much whiter (4100K) and, so, is clearer.

However, when switched to main beam, I found little extra was produced, primarily because the DIP was so good. I've pretty well decided to drive on DIP to be honest, but that's not a bad thing I guess. Also, I'm sure main may be useful in other circumstances (motorway for example)..

I'd already been warned about this 'feature', and although its not an issue, as the dip produces more light than I had on mains before, I've already bought (but not yet fitted) PIAA driving lamps to augment the mains....

It's just nice to see some increase of light when switching to mains, but I think that this is just a 'habit' thing....

Hope this helps - I'm sure that you'll be impressed when you fit them....

Mark

PS _ I'll try and get some pics and post them..

[Edited by markwild - 1/13/2004 1:48:45 PM]

Adam M

hmm,

not sure I am too pleased about that.

Perhaps I may consider some HID spot lights too.

May well ruin the look of the 22B though

I rarely flash people though and as long as overall I am not worse off on main beams than I am now I should be ok.

worth asking, do you have the crystal clear lenses or the older more opaque ones?

markwild

I wouldn't worry, the main is fine and the lights are OK for flash, as this just flashes the bulb....

Also, I changed the lights from the older opaque lenses to the newer crystal (99/00) type, as one of my older ones was broken (the fixing), prior (2 days) to fitting the HIDS, so I don't know if they are OK with the opaques...

Mark

Autolamps

Sorry Guys I have been working on the latest Harry Potter film so have been out of the circulation while they do the post production. (Yes they use some very weird lamps for special lighting and effects).

Not sure where to start really so will try and answer most of the primary points raised here.

The D2 discharge lamp which is what all of our kits are based upon is the Philips D2 lamps made in Aachen Germany. The cost of mass production in this technology means that it is not cost effective to make a number of qualities of lamp. As a result these are exactly the same lamps used in Audi, Merc Porsche etc.The issue with an H4 conversion is that you are replicating two tungsten filaments with one arc. This means for the H4 kit and the H4 kit only you will have a compromise. We could either concentrate on the low beam or the high. The global statistic says that 63.5% of night time driving is done on low beam so this is what we concentrated on optically. High Beam is not great and in truth adds little extra light but we calculated that most cars have a supplimental High Beam pocket or auxiliary lamps. We are bound by the optical properties of the reflector and the lens. You could potentially move the arc but this is not good for long life and reliability. Without a doubt the single filament lamps (H1,H7,9005,9006) have single pockets reflectors and with gas discharge you get excellent conversions. If you have a choice this is the way to go.

There are a number of companies with similar names on the net and thanks for all the positive comments on what we www.autolamps-online.com , do. We were the first e-commerce company to offer light sources on the net and this came as a result of working for Philips Automotive Lighting for 13 years. We were also the first with aftermarket gas discharge conversions. We are only a small team (7) but between us no one knows more. We opened an offer last year for 10% reduction on HID kits and 25% on halogen. We have never closed this so if we can help just drop us a line.

Nick
www.autolamps-online.com
www.hid-online.com

carl

Hi Nick,

As you say, most driving (probably >90% in my case) is done on dipped beam. Although you say "if you can go for the single filaments, do so" in my case it's no so simple.

Dual filament means just replacing the bulbs in my car (~£400). Single filament means getting the "3 light" lamp pods (~£300), at least one HID conversion (~£400) and getting the pods colour coded (£who knows?). If I want the pods "blended" into the car (like the current Cerberas), I'm looking at around £1500 without the HIDs

I can't really put auxiliary lamps in as it would spoil the lines of the car. It's designed to be "smooth" so has no door handles, no radio antenna, the rear numberplate is backlit so there's no ugly light, etc.

So what are the main beams really like? If you "flash" them while you're on dipped would anyone notice? Are the main beams better than ordinary halogen main beams? I guess there's an advantage in that the mains don't have to "warm up" as you're just moving a reflector around. Where are you based, as if you can give me an H4 Hi/Lo demo that would be best?

Do you have any answer to the "lensed" headlight glass thing? All the HID-equipped cars I've seen have plain glass headlights. My headlights look like this:

(as you may guess, I took the photo for another reason )

Minidog

Nick and fellow Bulletin board habitees

I am about to order an HID kit for my car as described above and have spoken to a lady at your office today. Of course she was knowledgeable and helpful.

Recapping - I have a WRX 01 with Twin Morettes - the outers are H7 Dipped) Inners are H1 (I think but will check.)

I formed the impression that the two lights work together when they are both on to form a full beam which slots into a jigsaw like pattern.

However some people here have described the Hi/lo scenario where I would conclude one bulb is used for both main and dipped and it moves or something.

Is this practical in my case and what are the implications of having a comparatively weaker full beam? I have to say that full/hi beam is less important to me.

Can I get a kit that will upgrade all four lights?

Thanks

carl

In your situation I would get a HID kit for the dipped beam, and leave the main beams as they are. If you really want to go for it, get two HID kits (one for dipped, one for main) but obviously it would cost twice as much.

markwild

Minidog, do as carl suggests - go for dips only - You cant convert yours with a H4 hy/lo, as it needs 4 bulbs in total, so you'd need 2 HID kits (one for DIP, one for main),

Leave Mains as is, go for a DIP kit

Mark

Adam M

Nick,

is there an H4 kit which is not hy/low?

if so, in using this, is the dip beam a better option than the dip beam of the hy/low kit or is it the lens design which is intended to work with both filament positions of the standard bulb which is limting the performance?

If you do sell such a kit, how much is an HID dip beam H4 kit?

Autolamps

Yes there is a Low beam only kit which has a computer designed shield. This is better than the Low beam on the Hylow but you lose totally your high beam in that reflector. Have a look here for an idea of what is involved

http://www.autolamps-online.com/products/h4kit.htm

However to have these beam adapters machined from solid billet costs us the same as the high low adapter mechanism. Therefore they are the same price as the Hylow kits but if you have a seperate high beam you will have a better beam pattern and light distribution.

Nick

carl

Had a good look round the hid-online site -- there are plenty of images showing HID kits with lensed headlights.

Still a bit confused over the effectiveness of the hi/lo kit. I assume it's still superior to halogens, even with the compromises in it. I also assume it draws less power than a pair of H4 55/60W halogens -- the TVR wiring sucks big time.

Also confused over 4100K vs 6000K. There are some places that do 8000K kits now -- I assumed they were the 'blue' ones. Natural daylight is, what, 6500K? So you'd think that the 6000K would be better (i.e. stick out more light in the bit of the spectrum your eyes are attuned to). But the site seems to indicate that the 4100K kit chucks out more light (in terms of lumens). Not really interested in lumens integrated over the complete spectrum -- which one actually looks brighter to the driver?

markwild

Carl, the kit will draw less power down the original cables, as they are only used to power the 'Am I on Dip or main' relay - The power to the lamps is fed from 'new' cables directly from the battery, that come with the kit.

Mark

Adam M

Nick,

I spoke with janet and she implied that there was little point in getting a dedicated H4 low beam bulb as the difference between that and the low hy/lows would amount to better definition of the edge of the beam.

I was contemplating this as I thought I might consider getting main beams in the spot light apertures.

Autolamps

The difference between the Low beam in the Hylow and the low beam only is simply it is more controlled. In both cases you are starting off with the same light source and the trick is to get as much of that output into an area that is beneficial to your driving. Due to the mechanical complexities this the low beam only kit does best as it has only one role in life. Both on low beam are better than any halogen upgrade with the exception of very high wattage rally lamps. The issue here is that the high wattage product is designed for off road use and has a life less than 100 hours.

Yes the draw on electrical current is much less as you have two x 35w instead of two x 60 watts please. Even though the H4 is rated at 55w on low beam in reality it is higher than 60w.

If you can get a decent set of high beams the choice is then up to you.

4100K - 6000K

In simple terms if you want performance to drive by you need the 4100K. 6000K is as you say nearer daylight but give less lumens or light and the difference is about 20%. However the 6000K does look whiter. Brightness is measured as a luminance figure and is cdM2. In scientific terms the 4100K is brighter.

If you need any more let me know

Nick

Jazz

iTrader: (1)

Hi Nick

How much is the H4 Hi/Lo kit? I am after one to fit a Subaru P1. Email me offline if you wish.

How differcult is the kit to install?

Cheers

Jazz

Adam M

Can confirm that I installed 90% of the kit myself, and could have done the other 10% had my Pat not beaten me to it.

Very easy to install.

No wire cutting, you only need to insert the bulbs (a little tricky to get the retaining clip back round it afterwards) then connect up the wires which can only go in one way.

The loom is a little bulky, but is as neat as it can be. It comes pre insulated and just needs to have the relays secured to something.

All the risky electrical stuff mounted to be safe from water ingress, and then you just have to connect up power and eartg directly to the battery.

They come prefused.

carl

Thoughts on light output and beam pattern?

Adam M

hmmmm.

would you believe I haven't tried them at night!

Only thing I do note is that one bulbs tends to be a bit more yellow than the other, but this was only by looking at the beam on the garage wall.

I was worried that people would not be able to tell if I flashed the lights but this doesn't appear to be an issue.

I have now relegated the car to my parents garage so won't get the chance to drive with them for a while as my new kitchen is residing in my garage as of tomorrow and I don't feel like keeping a 22B on the drive.